2024 Eurovision Grand Final - Finally Facing Our Waterloo?

PRlady

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This from the Former Israeli Government Spokesman and International Media Advisor to the President of Israel :


Oh he’s such a putz. But if he worries about Western Civilization, he can tell his ex-employers to get off the fence and support Ukraine the way Zelenskyy supported them. Not in a song contest but militarily and politically.

And neither Ukraine nor Croatia gave Israel any votes which I figure has to do with Eden being a close competitor!
 

Private Citizen

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I boycotted this year because of the hate and woke extremism, including and especially by Greta Thunberg :rolleyes:. My only hope is that her anti-Israel hatred makes people realize that the "green" cause is full of similar lies, distortions, and BS! Shame on the all-too-predictable voting, but I suspected as much. Mieze, if I had thought of it, I'd have joined you in voting for Israel. :respec:
 

allezfred

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I boycotted this year because of the hate and woke extremism, including and especially by Greta Thunberg :rolleyes:. My only hope is that her anti-Israel hatred makes people realize that the "green" cause is full of similar lies, distortions, and BS! Shame on the all-too-predictable voting, but I suspected as much. Mieze, if I had thought of it, I'd have joined you in voting for Israel. :respec:
Just because I see this over and over again - the people supposedly making a protest against “woke” had one song to vote for and still lost.

The winner Nemo from Switzerland who is non-binary was one of the artists who signed a statement for a ceasefire and release of all hostages back in March.


The 6th place from Ireland and 10th from Portugal were also signatories.
 

MsZem

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How pathetic. But she was very comfortable singing in russian-occupied Crimea. She could continue to sing there,and not climb onto the Eurovision stage. In the illegally occupied territories of Ukraine, terrorists would continue to applaud her. In fact, her pro-Putin colleagues continue to do this publicly.
Reminder for those reading your posts: Eden Golan was twelve at the time. Twelve is not an age of criminal or moral responsibility and she did not choose to move to Russia as a child. She is not accountable for what Israel's government does, let alone Putin's.

If she'd been treated like any other contestant - by the public and by her fellow contestants - the whole protest vote wouldn't have come up and we wouldn't be having these ridiculous discussions.

Also: Baby Lasagna wuzrobbed.
 

allezfred

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A reminder that this all started back in February when the Israeli broadcaster submitted the same song, but with the title “October Rain” which the EBU rejected due to its political nature. The EBU asked KAN to change the lyrics which KAN initially rejected.

It was only after the intervention of the President of Israel that the lyrics did get changed and the song got resubmitted this time with the title “Hurricane”. To say there was no participation by the Government of Israel this year in their entry is frankly disingenuous.

Israel were at Eurovision this year to make a point. I agree it cannot have been pleasant for Eden, but she is an adult who made the decision to do it in the full knowledge (as evidenced by KAN’s TikTok) of what was going to happen regarding the audience.
 

airgelaal

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Reminder for those reading your posts: Eden Golan was twelve at the time. Twelve is not an age of criminal or moral responsibility and she did not choose to move to Russia as a child. She is not accountable for what Israel's government does, let alone Putin's.
Just a reminder that she is no longer 12 years old and she can already be held accountable for her actions, which means she can stop pretending that the “russian period” of her life did not exist. And the fact that she does not live in Russia does not mean that this period is not over.
 

Miezekatze

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Israel certainly weren't the only ones participating to make a point.

Generally I'm unimpressed with holding an event that is supposed to "Unite through music" when 25% of the contestants and audience behave absolutely intolerant (regardless of in which direction) and toxic and self-centered.

Generally I might have still watched with more time (was my dads birthday, so I wasn't home), but even then I'd have voted for Israel, plus all songs I liked from people who didn't make an ass out of themselves. The good thing about Eurovision is that one can vote for whoever one wants for whatever reason one wants.

Generally I haven't really enjoyed the ESC much in the last years, the last show I really liked was the one were Conchita Wurst won.
 

MsZem

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Just a reminder that she is no longer 12 years old and she can already be held accountable for her actions, which means she can stop pretending that the “russian period” of her life did not exist. And the fact that she does not live in Russia does not mean that this period is not over.
WTF? No, that's not how it works. We do not hold people accountable for things they did as children once they reach adulthood. Eden Golan does not live in Russia, she does not represent Russia, and she's spoken about that period in her life plenty in the the Israeli media. It's hardly a secret.

Has she performed in any Russian-occupied territories as an adult? Has she expressed any sympathy for Putin and his policies? Has she bitched at other Eurovision contestants, or done anything political other, than, you know, memorialize innocent people killed at a music festival? How is that any more political than Jamala's 1944?

The :drama: from some of the other Eurovision entries is mostly self-created. They could have made this a non-issue; they chose otherwise. And unlike Eden Golan eight years ago, they're all adults.
 

airgelaal

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Ok, I actually had no illusions that Israel did not have and does not have any problems with any russians. That’s why I won’t be very upset if Israel doesn’t take part in Eurovision next year.
 

4rkidz

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who are you all kidding? Eurovision has always been political and an opportunity for people to express themselves, it is part of what does make it interesting and if that means protests and antics - so be it as that is what democracy is about. Google eurovision and the 90's. I found the booing added to the entertainment value as the jury part is always fun!
 

Debbie S

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I found the booing added to the entertainment value as the jury part is always fun!
You think harassment and intimidation is entertaining? Okay...

The booing wasn't just during the jury part and it wasn't about wuzrobbing favorites. There was one contestant who was booed, b/c of her nationality/religion. As noted upthread, it occurred throughout the event.
 

4rkidz

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You think harassment and intimidation is entertaining? Okay...

The booing wasn't just during the jury part and it wasn't about wuzrobbing favorites. There was one contestant who was booed, b/c of her nationality/religion. As noted upthread, it occurred throughout the event.
I am talking about the Jury boo's... read my post
 

allezfred

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The booing wasn't just during the jury part and it wasn't about wuzrobbing favorites. There was one contestant who was booed, b/c of her nationality/religion.
She was not booed because of her religion. Again you are trivialising real antisemitism by ascribing it to where there is no evidence. If the audience were booing that contestant because of her religion they would also have booed another contestant representing a different country. And the audience did not.

Israel has competed at Eurovision since 1973, won four times and finished 3rd last year. Their entry has never been booed before. Now let’s all think really hard about what might have changed that shall we?
 
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4rkidz

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I read your post and I still don't get what you're trying to say. The jury boos were not great fun-- they were solely being booed because they decided to give Israel points. Did we watch the same show? :rolleyes:
About the DQ boos.
 

Asli

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I would hardly call it an international show of solidarity - there was a concerted effort by the very worst on the right wing in Europe to promote voting for Israel. Literally people who espouse anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ+, racist opinions on the daily were calling on people to vote for Israel. That is not the kind of solidarity I would want for my country.

I'm more optimistic than you are about the European audience. I don't think they would vote for Israel just because the far-right clicked their fingers.

Around 25 countries placed Israel first or second. I don't believe the majority in these countries shares the reprehensible values you list.

And the Israeli broadcaster was absolutely lapping up the negative attention.


I'm sure. The Irish singer making the hotel move the Israeli participants from their rooms, the crowd chanting "Intifada! Revolution!" in Malmö etc. must have been a gift to Netanyahu and anyone who benefits from the "national unity against the world" rhetoric. :blah:
 

Miezekatze

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It's quote annoying if people think anyone who dares to not share their opinions does this because of some alleged right/left-wing-progaganda, especially when their own opinions are so one sided and biased.
 

Asli

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I had never cast a vote for a song during the ESC - I've never cared enough about a song to pick up the phone. ;)

However I've cast several votes for Israel this time round. The reason was that the Israeli singer's security was so much under threat that she was told not to leave her room, had to be protected by dozens of police officers whenever she left it and her parents were not able to join her for security concerns. :(

Attacking musicians, artists, writers, any artistic event or festival is the signature move of authoritarians and religious extremists.

One of the worst memories of my life is watching on television live in 1993 as a crowd that looked and sounded not so different from the one in Malmö set fire to the hotel of participants in a festival in Eastern Turkey, killing 35 people and injuring many. The deceased included beloved musicians, actors, writers, poets and several teenagers from a folk dance group.

The circumstances may have been very different, but anyone who thinks this can't happen in Europe needs to learn more about European history. The Swedish police visibly believed the threat, given the extent of the security they provided.

It is categorically wrong to extend political protest to threatening musicians, artists, writers and academics, whatever the identity or the opinions of these people.
 

Miezekatze

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I rarely vote in the ESC too, most of the years I just watched, some years I don't watch at all, sometimes I cast votes, but usually for several artists, since I haven't had a clear favorite in years. Plus I always voted for all sorts of reason, not necessarily always for the song I liked best, might also be the costume, the country of origin or somebody looking cute :p

In a German forum some fans who attended the contest live wrote they were treated with hostility by other fans when they cheered for Israel getting points.

It's so out of line with the whole idea of the contest and makes the slogan sound like a farce.

Plus not at all impressed with Greta Thunberg and her mom, they've really become unacceptable.

I've never seen any "ads" for the Israel entry (saw practically no ads for the Eurovision in general, because if I watch the ESC I still do it the old-fashioned way, I want to hear all the songs for the first time on the evening of the finale ). But I still got some people on my instagram feed, who keep advocating their idea of "pro-palestinian" activism (mostly young-ish actors or musicians, who have a lot of opinion combined with endless ignorance) and at least 75% of them post content that makes me realize the importance of protecting Israel and the Israeli people (I try to be tolerant of the content until it crosses a line and then I unfollow those people), so if any propaganda made me vote for Israel, it certainly wasn't "right-wing".

And the only way I could accept the behavior of some of the other contestants and audience was if Netanyahu himself was the Israeli ESC entry.
 

airgelaal

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By the way, it amuses me that people think that 0 points from Ukraine to Israel has to do with the pro-Palestinian movement. While Ukraine has its own history with the singer, which most people don’t care about.
And in this regard all these protests are so cynical...
 

On My Own

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One of the worst memories of my life is watching on television live in 1993 as a crowd that looked and sounded not so different from the one in Malmö set fire to the hotel of participants in a festival in Eastern Turkey, killing 35 people and injuring many. The deceased included beloved musicians, actors, writers, poets and several teenagers from a folk dance group.
I'm so sorry :(
 

Ananas Astra

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It's quote annoying if people think anyone who dares to not share their opinions does this because of some alleged right/left-wing-progaganda, especially when their own opinions are so one sided and biased.

I rarely vote in the ESC too, most of the years I just watched, some years I don't watch at all, sometimes I cast votes, but usually for several artists, since I haven't had a clear favorite in years. Plus I always voted for all sorts of reason, not necessarily always for the song I liked best, might also be the costume, the country of origin or somebody looking cute :p

In a German forum some fans who attended the contest live wrote they were treated with hostility by other fans when they cheered for Israel getting points.

It's so out of line with the whole idea of the contest and makes the slogan sound like a farce.

Plus not at all impressed with Greta Thunberg and her mom, they've really become unacceptable.

I've never seen any "ads" for the Israel entry (saw practically no ads for the Eurovision in general, because if I watch the ESC I still do it the old-fashioned way, I want to hear all the songs for the first time on the evening of the finale ). But I still got some people on my instagram feed, who keep advocating their idea of "pro-palestinian" activism (mostly young-ish actors or musicians, who have a lot of opinion combined with endless ignorance) and at least 75% of them post content that makes me realize the importance of protecting Israel and the Israeli people (I try to be tolerant of the content until it crosses a line and then I unfollow those people), so if any propaganda made me vote for Israel, it certainly wasn't "right-wing".

And the only way I could accept the behavior of some of the other contestants and audience was if Netanyahu himself was the Israeli ESC entry.
Wow. I'd never thought we would ever agree on something.
 

allezfred

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I'm more optimistic than you are about the European audience. I don't think they would vote for Israel just because the far-right clicked their fingers.

Around 25 countries placed Israel first or second. I don't believe the majority in these countries shares the reprehensible values you list.
Nobody is talking about the majority in any of these countries as not everybody watches Eurovision. The people who actually end up televoting are also a small percentage of the people who watch the shows. Then you had 24 potential songs (you cannot vote for your own country) to choose from. If you have a few thousand voters voting 20 times for one song, it will be enough to skew the vote in favour of that country’s song.

The Israeli government bought ads on YouTube to an extent I have never seen before (not even Azerbaijan when they were really keen to win) with messages recorded in all the languages of the participating countries. Ads were recorded again after the semi on Thursday with the number for the final. Even if girlfriend wanted to leave the hotel in Malmo, she wouldn’t have had time as she was too busy recording ads. :shuffle:

Then you had all the very worst people on social media promoting the song to their followers. Literally everyone significant who opposed marriage equality and abortion rights here in Ireland was calling on people to vote for Israel. If it was me, I wouldn’t want them voting for my country.
I'm sure. The Irish singer making the hotel move the Israeli participants from their rooms, the crowd chanting "Intifada! Revolution!" in Malmö etc. must have been a gift to Netanyahu and anyone who benefits from the "national unity against the world" rhetoric. :blah:
The Irish singer did not make the Israeli delegation move hotels. The crowd in the arena were not chanting “Intifada” and “Revolution” (it was booing and a couple of shouts of “Free Palestine”) Where did you get that information from? :confused:

On the other hand several delegations have made formal complaints to the EBU about harassment from members of the Israeli delegation in person and on social media.


KAN and the Israeli government may think they have scored some sort of victory in Malmo, but all they have done is tarnish the reputation of Israel in the contest among a previously sympathetic/neutral audience.

Even the demonstrations outside the venue were peaceful even if you might object to the slogans used. What was the point of you sharing a story about a hotel being set on fire in 1993 in Turkey when no such thing happened in Malmo? Do you not think people should be allowed to protest?
 
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Asli

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Even if girlfriend wanted to leave the hotel in Malmo, she wouldn’t have had time as she was too busy recording ads. :shuffle:
Death threats are not a laughing matter.


The Irish singer did not make the Israeli delegation move hotels.

It's been reported in France and the Irish delegation didn't deny it. I'm attaching the first item that comes up in a search as I don't have time. If you don't find it credible, please search yourself.



The crowd in the arena were not chanting “Intifada” and “Revolution” (it was booing and a couple of shouts of “Free Palestine”) Where did you get that information from? :confused:

I meant the crowd demonstrating in the streets Malmö. I didn't know the audience in a concert hall could be called "crowd". Sorry for the confusion.

From Al-Jazeera

Videos of the events were shown all week, with people chanting "Intifada! Revolution! "From the river to the sea..." etc. One guy being arrested while screaming "F*ck the Jews!". And of course Greta Thunberg getting arrested.


KAN and the Israeli government may think they have scored some sort of victory in Malmo, but all they have done is tarnish the reputation of Israel in the contest among a previously sympathetic/neutral audience.
I agree that Israel hasn't achieved anything concrete, maybe except for European Jews very briefly feeling some solidarity. OTOH it would be wrong for anyone to disregard what has happened as the result of Israeli ads (which never appeared on my timeline) or anti-abortion people telling others to vote for Israel. Why would this work on unrelated people in other countries?

It's best for all of us to try to see outside our own bubble IMHO.

What was the point of you sharing a story about a hotel being set on fire in 1993 in Turkey when no such thing happened in Malmo? Do you not think people should be allowed to protest?
That event is part of what has shaped me. Looking at the people in the protest, the vast majority of them were Middle Eastern. You don't understand the Middle East. There are many parallels between the events and it could have gone just as wrong if the protesters had been allowed anywhere near the hotel or venue. Sweden already has a domestic terrorism problem with more than 200 separate bomb explosions per year. I felt the need to protest against a musician being targeted, which is always wrong.
 

PRlady

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Death threats are not a laughing matter.




It's been reported in France and the Irish delegation didn't deny it. I'm attaching the first item that comes up in a search as I don't have time. If you don't find it credible, please search yourself.

You may well be right but fyi I wouldn't trust Hen Mazzig if he posted the sun rose in the east. An utter slimeball on the government payroll.
 

allezfred

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Death threats are not a laughing matter
Never said they were. On the other hand when you are at a competition, be it Eurovision or a sporting event, between practice/rehearsals do you ever have much time to go anywhere besides your hotel and the venue?
It's been reported in France and the Irish delegation didn't deny it. I'm attaching the first item that comes up in a search as I don't have time. If you don't find it credible, please search yourself.
Nice try, but some guy who obviously is a paid troll with a blue tick is not credible. And no I will not be doing your research for you either.

The Irish delegation didn’t deny it because it never happened.
 

Asli

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You may well be right but fyi I wouldn't trust Hen Mazzig if he posted the sun rose in the east. An utter slimeball on the government payroll.
The Swedish police found the threats credible enough to deploy around a hundred police officers, to tell her not to leave her room and to tell her parents not to join her. That, and not some random source, is the indication of the seriousness of the threat.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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I would hardly call it an international show of solidarity - there was a concerted effort by the very worst on the right wing in Europe to promote voting for Israel. Literally people who espouse anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ+, racist opinions on the daily were calling on people to vote for Israel. That is not the kind of solidarity I would want for my country.
:rofl:
I hope the irony of this paragraph is not lost on you.
 

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