2018 Olympics - Qualification rules for singles, pairs, dance & Team event

[Sylvia]

Countries that qualified Olympic spots at Nebelhorn:

Men (6): BEL, SWE, ITA, KOR, MAS, UKR [next 3: PHI, SUI, GBR]
Pairs (5): AUS, AUT, PRK, ISR, CZE [next 3: JPN, BLR, ESP]
Dance (6): GBR, JPN, GER, KOR, CZE, SVK [next 3: LTU, ARM, FIN]
Ladies (6): AUS, SWE, SUI, BRA, FIN, UKR [next 3: ARM, SGP, TPE]

 

[Seerek]

Considering how many competitors there were at Nebelhorn, I'm rather impressed with how decisive the margins of qualification were in both singles events - the 6th placed finisher was well ahead of the 7th.

 

[kwanfan1818]

For the team event, twelve thirteen countries meet the minimum qualification of having qualified at least three disciplines in the individual events:

• RUS (4) -- L/M/P/D in Helsinki
• CAN (4) -- L/M/P/D in Helsinki
• USA (4) -- L/M/P/D in Helsinki
• CHN (4) -- L/M/P/D in Helsinki
• FRA (4) -- L/M/P/D in Helsinki
• ITA (4) -- L/P/D in Helsinki, M at Nebelhorn
• GER (4) -- L/M/P in Helsinki, D at Nebelhorn
• JPN (3) -- L/M in Helsinki, D at Nebelhorn
• ISR (3) -- M/D in Helsinki, P at Nebelhorn
• AUS (3) -- M in Helsinki, L/P at Nebelhorn
• UKR (3) -- D in Helsinki, L/M at Nebelhorn
• CZE (3) -- M in Helsinki, P/D at Nebelhorn
• KOR (3) -- L in Helsinki, M/D at Nebelhorn -- added

 

[Debbie S]

Korea has also qualified in 3 disciplines, right? Which gives them an automatic entry into the team event?

Is there a ranking/point total somewhere of the team event qualification standings? I searched the ISU site and couldn't find it.

 

[kwanfan1818]

No, there's no ranking on the ISU site. However, ranking consists of two sets of points, only the first of which is available.

Highest WS points from one event from one skater in each discipline:

1. Worlds. If no one with WS points, then Euros/4C's. If no one with WS points, then Jr. Worlds.
2. GP/GPF. If no one with WS point from GP/GPF, then JGP (not JGPF).

After Worlds, @skatingguy did the tallies for the first criteria here. These are the totals for the thirteen eligible teams:

1. 1 CAN 3823
2. 2 RUS 3715
3. 3 USA 3183
4. 4 CHN 3064
5. 5 JPN 2727
6. 6 FRA 2673
7. 7 ITA 2219
8. 8 GER 1944
9. 9 KOR 1545
10. 10 ISR 1337
11. 12 AUS 1221
12. 14 CZE 1038
13. 17 UKR 678

Although mathematically possible, three teams are not going to knock Germany to 11 via GP/GPF or JPG. (If S/M don't want to compete in the SP of the TE, then it would be up to whether the NOC is sending a second German Pair. The German Fed could also decide to let the three other disciplines practice their SP on Olympic ice, and only compete three disciplines.)

These are the teams that should be fighting for the last TE spots:

ISR

• Ladies: No GPs, Gorodnitsky has another JGP
• Men: Samohin (RC, SA) and Bychenko (NHK, IdF)
• Pairs: No GPs so far, Conners/Krasnopolski not eligible for GP alternates list unless they win a CS, Kops/Tsoglin WD from JGP Croatia
• Dance: Tobias/Tkachenko (NHK/SC), should earn some WS points from GP.

CZE

• Ladies: No GPs so far, Janiczkova and Kratenova have upcoming JGPs
• Men: Brezina (NHK so far)
• Pairs: Duskova/Bidar (CoC, IdF), will get points
• Dance: Kuzmichova/Sinicyn (RC, longshot for top 8), no JGP points so far

AUS

• Ladies: No GPs so far, no JGP points.
• Men: Kerry (SC so far)
• Pairs: No GPs, Alexandrovskaia/Windor, 182 from JGP so far
• Dance: No GPs so far -- would need a CS win to be at the bottom of the alternates list, 120 points highest JGP so far (Freyman/Dougherty)

KOR

• Ladies: Choi (CoC, SA), Park (RC, NHK), Kim (SC), could be tight getting any GP points, E. Kim 225 at JGP with another event coming up
• Men: Cha (SC, SA), top 8 could be tough, S. Lee 108 points on JGP with one more to go
• Pairs: No GPs so far, Kim/Kim have a JGP
• Dance: No GPs so far, no Korean teams on JGP

UKR

• Ladies: No GPs so far, 225 from Arkhipova in JPG, Arkhipova and Nesterova have another upcoming event.
• Men: No GPs so far, Pavlov 164 on JGP so far
• Pairs: No GPs so far, Smirnova/Darenskiy, 108 points from JGP
• Dance: Nazarova/Nikitin (NHK so far), two JGP teams with 148 points so far

 

[tony]

Right now it looks like South Korea (with an outside shot for GP points from Cha if he's in good shape and surprises) and Israel (T/T being top 4-worthy in the GP) are in the best shape, and Australia keeping the World Juniors win for A/W, already included in their scores.

 

[misskarne]

And here's where Katia and Harley getting screwed out of Senior GPs becomes really, really important, as does Brendan getting overlooked in favour of Nguyen at NHK. Dammit.

Wait, did Kailani just go to the top of the alternate list because she won Nebelhorn?

Also, why do JGP only count and not JGPF? That's dumb.

 

[kwanfan1818]

No, she would have gone to the bottom of the alternates list, ranked among CS winners by score, had she not already been on the list. This provision isn't at all useful for someone already on it -- Craine is SB 55, and 55 is better than 76 -- only those who started as < 76 or aren't on the list and not eligible for return or split couple status, ord has only been useless once for those skaters and teams: one Pair, the first year they had an alternates list, who were, literally, the only Pair who had the GP minimums given the unusually high number of withdrawals that season.

Craine is either #12 on the alternates list now, if the Russian Fed submitted Sakhanovich for GP, or #11, if the Russian Fed didn't. I've always assumed that the rule, "Non-Seeded Skaters/Couples will not be invited to another event in replacement if, by medical reason, they withdraw from an assigned event." applies to a skater who has one and withdraws from it, like Toth, but if because they didn't have a second, a second invitation wouldn't technically be a replacement, then it wouldn't apply to Toth. If the former is true, or Toth would be skipped because of injury, then Craine is currently either #11 or #10.

 

[kwanfan1818]

For the Additional Athletes Quota,

1. Japan will need two for Pairs, unless one of the qualifiers drops out, like for Sochi
2. The most two other TE qualifiers would need is four

So even if KOR doesn't qualify for the TE, and they go by the original rules, there will be enough spots in the AAQ for Korea to send a Pair for the individual event.

 

[Jeschke]

And here's where Katia and Harley getting screwed out of Senior GPs becomes really, really important, as does Brendan getting overlooked in favour of Nguyen at NHK. Dammit.

Can’t believe that seriously on the first day after this great weekend for Australia (getting 2 spots, which was not a given) you start complaining again

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think JGPF doesn't count because they only count Jr. Scores as a last resort, and they don't want a country to earn more points from JGPF than a senior would at GP.

It's already odd that if you just miss the singles FS and get no Worlds WS points, which means you should be able to place at least 20th at Euros/4C's, you get more WS points than the country whose skater made the FS and was 24th. Similarly, if you're last of 10 Pairs at 4C's or 10th at Euros, you get more WS points than the team in 16th place at Worlds.

For the TE purposes, it can pay to miss the free.

 

[Erin]

And here's where Katia and Harley getting screwed out of Senior GPs becomes really, really important, as does Brendan getting overlooked in favour of Nguyen at NHK. Dammit.

If Alexandrovskaya and Windsor would have won their JGP event, they would have earned more points, so maybe they should have skated better and won. As it is, they have a chance to earn more points at their second event. And a win at a JGP earns more points than finishing 6th or lower on the regular GP, which is about where they would expect to finish so I don't think they are any worse off.

As for Brendan being "overlooked" for Nam, that's a hard case to make when Kerry has a lower SB and was technically lower on the alternate list.

 

[kwanfan1818]

As for Brendan being "overlooked" for Nam, that's a hard case to make when Kerry has a lower SB and was technically lower on the alternate list

There is no technically lower on the Alternates list: all have equal weight, unless they aren't qualified: three from the same country already there, can't get a visa in time, host pick replacement, etc.

Many hosts would have chosen the skater they deem the weakest, and have every right to do so.

 

[seabm7]

KOR

• Ladies: Choi (CoC, SA), Park (RC, NHK), Kim (SC), could be tight getting any GP points, E. Kim 225 at JGP with another event coming up
• Men: Cha (SC, SA), top 8 could be tough, S. Lee 108 points on JGP with one more to go
• Pairs: No GPs so far, Kim/Kim have a JGP
• Dance: No GPs so far, no Korean teams on JGP

• Typo fix: E. Lim 225
• The Kim siblings withdrew from JGP. Considering their performance at Nebelhorn, I suspect an injury.

 

[Seerek]

I know that Switzerland has been strict in the past regarding Olympic readiness/eligibility (e.g. Lucinda Ruh in 1998), so I do hope they're much more relaxed this time around with Pagnini (especially given her age - 16 next month).

 

[tony]

In 2002, Sarah Meier was an upcoming senior skater (finishing in the top 5 at Europeans the year before) and finishing only behind Hughes, Slutskaya, Kwan, and Suguri at Skate Canada (the Olympic and World podiums later that season). She still had to do a test skate a week or so before the SLC Games in order to get to the event and IIRC the decision was made only days before the Opening Ceremony. She finished 9th in the short there. The Swiss Olympic Committee has always been pretty tough, unfortunately.

 

[seabm7]

I just gave a quick look at

Massimiliano Ambesi and Angelo Dolfini's podcast about the judging system

Ambesi was claiming that Spain could get into the team event, as 2 qualified disciplines + 1 additional quota = 3 participating disciplines. This is quite interesting.

 

[Sedge]

I recall for Sochi that the language did not specifically prohibit taking a '0' in a discipline..that is...entering with just 3 disciplines ( 2 plus one taken from the allotment of 10). I thought Spain might do it in 2014.
That would knock the people who have qualified 3 and plan to use a 4th down the current list ( AUS CZE)
Spain's ability to contend in that case comes from Javier's points. Kazakhstan might be another that could do that.

 

[skatingguy]

I recall for Sochi that the language did not specifically prohibit taking a '0' in a discipline..that is...entering with just 3 disciplines ( 2 plus one taken from the allotment of 10). I thought Spain might do it in 2014.
That would knock the people who have qualified 3 and plan to use a 4th down the current list ( AUS CZE)
Spain's ability to contend in that case comes from Javier's points. Kazakhstan might be another that could do that.

While it's true that country compete with only 3 disciplines, they need to qualify three disciplines first and so unless Spain gets a pairs entry by virtue of a few teams pulling out they won't be at the Team Event. There is talk about the 2nd entry by the Germans will probably not reach the standards of the German Olympic Committee but they would need to other countries to pull out of the Pairs event. Also, at this point Spain is behind both Australia and Israel for the 10th spot in the Team Event standings.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Also, Germany has qualified in all four disciplines, and they could choose to compete in the TE with only three.

But what the podcast said about Spain is incorrect.

 

[Sabine-Yuna]

While it's true that country compete with only 3 disciplines, they need to qualify three disciplines first and so unless Spain gets a pairs entry by virtue of a few teams pulling out they won't be at the Team Event. There is talk about the 2nd entry by the Germans will probably not reach the standards of the German Olympic Committee but they would need to other countries to pull out of the Pairs event. Also, at this point Spain is behind both Australia and Israel for the 10th spot in the Team Event standings.

The second German team Hocke/ Blommaert as already smashed the standards set by the NOK of Germany at Nebelhorn trophy.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Are they the NOK's standards, or the German Fed's? If the former, then Germany will have no problem fielding a Pairs team for the SP. L/P have already far surpassed the Dance standards, which they did in every SB-earning competition last season, and Weinzierl has passed the Ladies'. Liebers just fell short of the Men's and, last season, before he was injured, he hovered around it.

Last season, Urban/Steffan and Koch/Nuchtern met the 137-pt Dance standard at Golden Spin, Fentz passed the 208-pt Men's standard at 2017 Worlds, and Schott passed it multiple times last season (and barely missed it so far this season).

The only discipline that might be dicey is Men's.

 

[sus2850]

Are they the NOK's standards, or the German Fed's? If the former, then Germany will have no problem fielding a Pairs team for the SP. L/P have already far surpassed the Dance standards, which they did in every SB-earning competition last season, and Weinzierl has passed the Ladies'. Liebers just fell short of the Men's and, last season, before he was injured, he hovered around it.

Last season, Urban/Steffan and Koch/Nuchtern met the 137-pt Dance standard at Golden Spin, Fentz passed the 208-pt Men's standard at 2017 Worlds, and Schott passed it multiple times last season (and barely missed it so far this season).

The only discipline that might be dicey is Men's.

There was a media seminar last week in Oberstdorf where the German federation explained that the set standard has to be achieved in the challenger events that the skaters are entered into in this season plus also GPs of this season count. Deadline is December 10.

 

[kwanfan1818]

But are the standards the German Olympic Committee's, so that if the skaters meet them, the German Olympic committee will send them automatically, or the German Federation's, and then the German Olympic Committee will decide?

 

[Areski]

In 2002, Sarah Meier was an upcoming senior skater (finishing in the top 5 at Europeans the year before) and finishing only behind Hughes, Slutskaya, Kwan, and Suguri at Skate Canada (the Olympic and World podiums later that season). She still had to do a test skate a week or so before the SLC Games in order to get to the event and IIRC the decision was made only days before the Opening Ceremony. She finished 9th in the short there. The Swiss Olympic Committee has always been pretty tough, unfortunately.

Strict but maybe that's the way to go. I still remember Polish single skater named Anna Jurkiewicz who went for a nice touristic trip in Vancouver 2010 without even intention to fight there with no shame at all. That was embarrassing.

 

[sus2850]

But are the standards the German Olympic Committee's, so that if the skaters meet them, the German Olympic committee will send them automatically, or the German Federation's, and then the German Olympic Committee will decide?

That was not said, but usually the DEU decides and the DOSB gives its ok. With Hocke/Blommaert scoring over 180 they should be able to go. And we will see how Peter and Paul are doing, 208 should be possible.

 

[Seerek]

I'm not sure this is necessarily the most suitable thread.

FYI, Isadora Williams will still be able to compete in Pyeongchang representing Brazil despite the Brazilian Olympic Committee being suspended by the IOC Executive Board (BOC president Carlos Guzman arrested yesterday on corruption charges, specifically vote buying).

 

[kwanfan1818]

Ritti just tweeted:

Robledo&Fenero (Spain): Our federation said they'll decide after the Golden Spin and the Nationals who is going to the Olympics #FinTrophy17
​

ETA: Results to date this season:
Celia ROBLEDO / Luis FENERO

• Finlandia Trophy: 133.01
• Autumn Classic International: 129.44

Olivia SMART / Adria DIAZ

• Autumn Classic International: 155.56
• US International Figure Skating Classic: 132.13

Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN

• Finlandia Trophy: 144.66

 

[Seerek]

Unfortunately, Aiza Mambekova's last update from September has her still in crutches and effectively inactive.

Does Kazakhstan have anyone age eligible who could fill that #2 spot or must the berth be reallocated?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Right now, no other KAZ Ladies have the Olys qualifying scores (20/36). Asykhabova has 17.48/31.69 from FBMA Trophy. Her scores from JGP Riga were lower, but close.

Toktarova is only 14; she surpassed the scores in Juniors. Also from Juniors, Khvan 15) was within a point in the SP at 2017 Autumn Classic junior, but only 24.02 at 2016 AC Juniors, so, unlikely, and no other Juniors have come close.

If Mambekova is on the ice by the end of the year, they could send her with old programs for the experience to prepare for Beijing