2018 Olympics - Qualification rules for singles, pairs, dance & Team event

[Sylvia]

Here's the 11-page PDF document published by the ISU: http://static.isu.org/media/309682/isu-figure-skating-en.pdf

Qualification Places
Men Single Skating: 30
Ladies Single Skating: 30
Pair Skating: 20 (40 athletes)
Ice Dance: 24 (48 athletes)
Total: 148
Team event: 10 teams

Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdord, Germany, September 27-30, 2017, will be the final Olympic qualification competition after 2017 Worlds in Helsinki: http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...rn-trophy-2017-olympic-qualifying-competition

 

[tony]

I never quite understood why they have 5 full warm-up groups for all disciplines except dance, where they are short by one team and only allow 19 to qualify from Worlds placements. Just seems odd.

 

[misskarne]

Let my anxious hand-wringing commence!



#AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

 

[skatingguy]

Let my anxious hand-wringing commence!
#AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

Going to be tough - teams likely to qualify include Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, People's Republic of China, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United States of America - that leaves one extra place - have to see where things stand after the World Championships.

 

[misskarne]

We can do it! We were so close last time, and that was with baby Brendan. Now he's much stronger, everyone is much stronger. We should earn way more points in the qualification period.

 

[VGThuy]

I never quite understood why they have 5 full warm-up groups for all disciplines except dance, where they are short by one team and only allow 19 to qualify from Worlds placements. Just seems odd.

That is odd. Why not make it 25? Is there a rule that it has to be an even number?

 

[skatingguy]

Team Event Qualification - Standings after Europeans/4CC
Russian Federation 3116
Canada 2964
United States of America 2772
France 2433
Japan 2283
People's Republic of China 2283
Italy 2169
Germany 1620
Republic of Korea 1390
Israel 1336
Spain 1077
Belgium 1058
Australia 1014
Czech Republic 823
Great Britain 719
Ukraine 678
Slovakia 669
Latvia 572
Finland 532
Sweden 530
Georgia 496
Armenia 492
Austria 454
Denmark 446
Uzbekistan 446
Belarus 438
Hungary 402
Poland 402
Kazakhstan 402
Turkey 293
Estonia 284
Chinese Taipei 282
Hong Kong - China 232
Philippines 214
Croatia 192
Malaysia 192
Switzerland 156
Norway 148
Lithuania 140
Singapore 113

 

[skatingguy]

We can do it! We were so close last time, and that was with baby Brendan. Now he's much stronger, everyone is much stronger. We should earn way more points in the qualification period.

So, at the moment, assuming my math is correct, Australia is 13th 322 points behind 10th place Israel. 11th and 12th place are Belgium and Spain and they don't have a realistic chance because they aren't competing in every discipline and aren't likely to qualify in 3 disciplines, don't worry about them. Final spot is between Israel, Australia, Great Britain, & Ukraine so if Australia wants it, your skaters need to finish above skaters from those countries and earn Olympic berths in 3 disciplines.

 

[Seerek]

Bychenko and Tobias/Tkachenko's European results may have very well locked up that final berth.

Even if Alexandrovskaya/Windsor medal at Junior Worlds, that increment in points won't be enough to move Australia into 10th.

 

[misskarne]

Bychenko and Tobias/Tkachenko's European results may have very well locked up that final berth.

Even if Alexandrovskaya/Windsor medal at Junior Worlds, that increment in points won't be enough to move Australia into 10th.

But they continue counting all the way up til the end of December, don't they? I remember that from last time. So there are still other opportunities.

 

[skatingguy]

Points accumulate from one entry per discipline in an ISU Championship this season (Worlds, Europeans, 4CC, or World Juniors) and from next season's Junior/Senior Grand Prix Events and the Senior Grand Prix Final. The Championship points are worth a lot more than next seasons Grand Prix events so it's important to do well this season. It will also help the skaters from countries competing for that final spot to get a Grand Prix assignment(s) for next season.

 

[Seerek]

Yes, it was an addition of results from both 2012/13 and 2013/14 to deterime the Team Qualifying totals for Sochi.

Sylvia's attached document infers it's the same methodology for Pyeongchang, therefore a team like Katia/Harley could get more points on Junior Grand Prix next season (if not aged out).

 

[skatingguy]

If Katia/Harley are competing at Senior Worlds, after competing at 4CC, doesn't that mean they're no longer eligible for junior events - or did that rule not get passed?

 

[misskarne]

If Katia/Harley are competing at Senior Worlds, after competing at 4CC, doesn't that mean they're no longer eligible for junior events - or did that rule not get passed?

That rule was never passed. Katia and Harley will also be at Junior Worlds, as well as Senior Worlds. Harley doesn't turn 21 until October this year, so he and Katia can do JGP again (and there's a big incentive this season with JGP Brisbane on the cards). They could qualify for the JGPF again.

If Brendan keeps on as he is, he should pick up another GP, maybe get a second as an alternate or even pick up a second right off the bat.

James Min will probably go around the JGP again too, and he could pick up some points there.

Didn't Senior Bs count last time also? That's where we could really pick up some serious points, especially if Brooklee and Kailani maintain a run of form.

 

[skatingguy]

That rule was never passed. Katia and Harley will also be at Junior Worlds, as well as Senior Worlds. Harley doesn't turn 21 until October this year, so he and Katia can do JGP again (and there's a big incentive this season with JGP Brisbane on the cards). They could qualify for the JGPF again.

If Brendan keeps on as he is, he should pick up another GP, maybe get a second as an alternate or even pick up a second right off the bat.

James Min will probably go around the JGP again too, and he could pick up some points there.

Didn't Senior Bs count last time also? That's where we could really pick up some serious points, especially if Brooklee and Kailani maintain a run of form.

That's good for them - given how few senior level pairs teams there are, if could gain enough points maybe they'll pick up a Senior Pairs Grand Prix slot.

Senior B's don't count - only the Grand Prix Events and Senior Grand Prix Final.

 

[Vagabond]

Big Bro 2.0 and Lil Sis 2.0 might have to learn Pairs and Ice Dance if they manage to get Belgium into the Top Ten all by themselves.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Big Bro 2.0 and Lil Sis 2.0 might have to learn Pairs and Ice Dance if they manage to get Belgium into the Top Ten all by themselves.

That would be sooooooo adorable. Now I almost want to go read the rules and see if they could get away with it... i mean if they are not adding any more athletes - who knows how things are worded.

 

[kwanfan1818]

One impact at Nebelhorn is that in the years that it is an Olympic qualifier, members with skaters/teams who placed top ten the year before can't send two instead of one, which they can in non-qualifier years.

 

[allezfred]

I really think when Nebelhorn is the Olympic qualifying competition only countries looking to secure spots at the Olympics should be allowed to compete.

 

[misskarne]

I really think when Nebelhorn is the Olympic qualifying competition only countries looking to secure spots at the Olympics should be allowed to compete.

I'd be up for this as a rule.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I agree.

 

[Erin]

I really think when Nebelhorn is the Olympic qualifying competition only countries looking to secure spots at the Olympics should be allowed to compete.

If nothing else, it would make things less confusing when fans are trying to figure out who qualified for the Olympics and who the next in line are.

With tongue less in cheek, I also think that it would just make Nebelhorn much more of a true/purer qualifying competition. There is something a little irritating about some people being there just for a tuneup competition while other skaters are there with something really important on the line.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm not sure the Nebelhorn organizers would volunteer to host it, though, unless the exception is German skaters. They can have as many entries as they want, but also tend to go lean during Olympic quali years.

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from the Pairs discussion thread to this one, since it's a relevant thread, about the North Korean pair that won the bronze medal at the Asian Winter Games:

(please move/copy this to another thread where appropriate)

NBC Olympics have laid out the potential path to the Olympics for Ryom and Kim via Nebelhorn.
It'll still up in the air if in fact 4 berths will be available at the competition, given the possibility of more than 16 berths awarded at Worlds + the entrant from South Korea.

 

[kwanfan1818]

What's interesting to me is the rule that says the host gets spots even if the don't qualify for the individual event only if the Additional Athlete Quota isn't used up on the TE.

In Sochi, only one of ten spots was used, because Takahashi/Kihara made it off the subs list. Of the countries likely to qualify, if Suto/Boudreau Audet qualify a spot, Suzuki/Kihara can go: they've got the World's minimums this season, good for next season, barring a rule change not in their favor. Or if S/K qualify a spot themselves, no Additional Athletes will be needed. If S/K compete at Nebelhorn and don't qualify a spot, Japan may claim two quota spots, assuming Muramoto/Reed can qualify a spot for themselves in Dance.

Germany might be vulnerable if their Ladies, Men, or Dance entries underachieve at Nebelhorn, if they need to, because they should be at least on the bubble in Helsinki if you look at their SB's and eliminate the skaters with higher SB's who won't be at Worlds.

Whoever gets the 10th spot for the TE will likely use two.

Korea has to qualify in at least three disciplines, like everyone else, to qualify for the TE and fill in for one discipline if need be. If they don't, they can use the quota spots and be added to the individual fields.

At least this way, Nebelhorn isn't set up so that no one knows whether they've qualified based on how Korea does.

 

[misskarne]

@kwanfan1818 I thought that spots earned at Nebelhorn belonged to the skater and not the country?

 

[greenapple]

@kwanfan1818 I thought that spots earned at Nebelhorn belonged to the skater and not the country?

All Olympic berths belong to nations - not individual skaters.

 

[Vagabond]

Hence the title of D.W. Griffiths' controversial movie about figure skating, "Berth of a Nation."

 

[kwanfan1818]

The only international spots that are earned by skaters and given to skaters are GP/GPF spots, and that's only if the Feds submit their names.

 

[Sylvia]

Cross-posting questions by @DDNatalia & @Dobre and 2 replies by @kwanfan1818 from the Korean news thread to this relevant thread:

As host nation for the upcoming Olympics, will Korea earn a place in the Team event regardless of 'qualifying points'/simply because they are host nation?

According to the ISU announcement: <copied out below in italics>

HOST COUNTRY PLACES
 The host country places will only be implemented if there are remaining places from the ten (10) Team event “Additional Athletes Quotas”.
 If the Republic of Korea qualifies in all individual events (Ladies Single Skating, Men Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance), the host country places will not be applied.
 In the case where the host country, the Republic of Korea, went through the normal qualification procedure and did not qualify for any or only for some of the individual events (Ladies Single Skating, Men Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance), the Republic of Korea will be allocated one host country place for the individual event(s). This means that the host country places would apply, if applicable, for one (1) skater in Ladies Single Skating and/or one (1) skater in Men Single Skating and/or one (1) Pair Skating couple and/or one (1) Ice Dance couple for a total maximum host country
places of six (6) skaters. As mentioned above, such host country places will only be implemented if there are remaining places from the ten (10) Team event “Additional Athletes Quotas”.
 The nominated skaters using the host country places will compete as number 31 in the Men Single Skating /Ladies Single Skating events, pair number 21 in the Pair Skating event or as couple number 25 in the Ice Dance event.
 The nominated skaters using the host country places must have the minimum eligibility standard set as for all other skaters at the Olympic Winter Games PyeongChang 2018, in particular but not limited to having achieved in due time the Minimum Total Elements Scores determined and published by the ISU.
 These “host country place” skaters will only compete in the individual events. It is important to note that these host country places do not automatically constitute a team for the host country in the Team event unless the host country qualifies for the Team event through the normal qualification process as described in D.3.

D.3. requires that a team qualify in at least three individual events, with the option to compete in three events or appoint a fourth from the Additional Athlete Quota.

By the published qualification rules, Korea does not get a team entry automatically or by using Additional [Athletes] Quota for more than one discipline.

If only eight (or seven) teams qualified in three individual events, would there then only be that many teams?

I think Korea--and for that matter, Japan--has the ability to qualify the three spots, but it may be a close thing. (Their top dance teams are currently 20th & 21st of the worlds-eligible teams on the SB list. This does not include Coomes & Buckland, a Spanish dance team, or the possibility of a third Russian dance team). Japan can make it in pairs, but again, it may be a close thing. I also think there's a good chance one or both dance teams could finish a number of spots better than 20th & 21st at Worlds. But not counting on it with Worlds in Europe.

ETA:

The document doesn't say. It assumes 10 teams will qualify and agree to skate.

Of the top 8, Japan might be vulnerable under normal circumstances, but they should be able to qualify their Dance team, with a good shot at qualifying their Pair. Germany should qualify Pairs, Ladies, and Men under normal circumstances, and maybe Dance, if Shpilband has some politik left.

Based on @skatingguy 's calculations after Euros/Four C's, below Top 8 we've got

• South Korea, with a good chance to qualify at least three, even if from the Nebelhorn wait list, given the inevitable citizenship issues.
• Israel: unlikely to qualify Ladies and Pairs. There are two Dance teams with the assumed minimums, if T/T qualify the spot, but he doesn't have a third grandmother for citizenship.
• Spain: unlikely to qualify Ladies and Pairs. Plus Dance is a big question.
• Belgium: no Pairs or Dance.
• Australia: Great young Pair who can qualify the disciple for the TE, and then two Australian citizens with the minimums can compete; Stephens and Dodds need the SP minim, if the minimums don't change for next season.
• Czech Republic has a shot if the can qualify Dance and Kuzmichova or Mansour has dual citizenship in time. Ladies are not looking good to qualify.
• Great Britain: not likely to qualify more than two, if lucky.

If you think I've dismissed a country unfairly, please let me know.