2025-26 US Pairs Discussion - Milano-Bound By Way of Beijing & St. Louis

Karen-W said:
There was only ever going to be just 1 Olympic spot for Hungary and Pavlova/Nagy finished 11th at Euros that year (which had 3 Russian teams), so there was every reason to believe they would have had a clear runway to the top 10 and higher had they stuck together. There was a lot of potential and while I don't dispute the known issues with the Hungarian fed, those seem to have been more related to the singles disciplines. They've always been supportive of Pavlova & their dance teams.
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In that same interview with Phil Hersch it says Nagy was uncomfortable training in Russia after the war broke out, so split with Pavlova. I think that's understandable. Nobody knows how wars are going to develop, and Sochi is close to Ukraine. It was a disadvantage for Nagy to switch to US because now he has to support himself financially.
Seeing Pavlova's progress it does make one think of the "what if" scenario...
 
farahfan said:
In that same interview with Phil Hersch it says Nagy was uncomfortable training in Russia after the war broke out, so split with Pavlova. I think that's understandable. Nobody knows how wars are going to develop, and Sochi is close to Ukraine. It was a disadvantage for Nagy to switch to US because now he has to support himself financially.
Seeing Pavlova's progress it does make one think of the "what if" scenario...
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I mean, if that's the timeline he's presenting after the fact. They split up almost immediately after Euros 2022 - maybe even before the Olympics. Maybe he was just uncomfortable training in Russia, war or not. Which is perfectly reasonable.
 
nylynnr said:
It's cute and cool and everything else to post something like this, but how would it really work? Where does the money come from? Who makes the decision that having a third pair in Milano, is so important that money needs to be spent? Who gets the money?
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The part about actual $ being exchanged for this comp was just a joke of course but the rest was not. Judging at events can be ridiculous when it comes to GOE etc. Obviously it does not bother me that much though because I'm still watching! ;) Now if I were rich, I'd probably be willing to send a few $ myself to the right judges to make sure one of my favs qualifies for the olympics - as any cute, cool and hypocritical skating fan would do for one of their favs! :biggrinbo
 
sp555 said:
The part about actual $ being exchanged for this comp was just a joke of course but the rest was not. Judging at events can be ridiculous when it comes to GOE etc. Obviously it does not bother me that much though because I'm still watching! ;) Now if I were rich, I'd probably be willing to send a few $ myself to the right judges to make sure one of my favs qualifies for the olympics - as any cute, cool and hypocritical skating fan would do for one of their favs! :biggrinbo
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Well, that's backtracking.
 
Karen-W said:
Gotta give it to the Letovs for the fabulous trolling game they've got going on today.

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We know you are Team Spencer 100%, but help me understand the fabulous trolling game part?

For one, they spelled it Spenser. I’d hope my longtime coach could spell my name correctly.

If they really wanted to troll, they’d post death spiral clips. Instead of SBS jumps in practice we haven’t seen them cleanly land once in competition in a few seasons.
 
SmoothEdge said:
I don’t think Parkman will have it by 2030 as well so I can see why they don’t send them. But to not send Chan/Howe over Shin/Nagy is very questionable and assigning them SkAm over them as well is just poor from USFS.

According to Liu/Bedard in an interview. Liu taking a year off and their partnership ending wasn’t because of concussions or any head injuries it was due to issues with Nagy. Here’s the quote: “It was never my intention to step away from skating; I always wanted to continue competing. However, I found myself in a situation that brought me more pain than happiness. While making sacrifices is part of any career, I eventually realized where 'the line' was for me—I was not willing to sacrifice my mental well-being for success in sport”.
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Will you give me a link to this interview? thanks.
 
SmoothEdge said:
figureskatersonline.com

New Pairs Team Series: Chelsea Liu and Ryan Bedard - Figure Skaters Online

By Gina Capellazzi, Team FSO website administrator Photos by Robin Ritoss Figure Skaters Online has started a new series to introduce fans to the new pair teams who will be making their debut during the 2025-26 season. For this series, we recently chatted with Chelsea Liu and Ryan Bedard, who...
figureskatersonline.com
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Love it

What is interesting to me is that all the time where she was trying out male partners and he was trying out female partners they would do lifts and throws together in the meantime, but did they never consider each other the whole time they were basically auditioning other people?

Do we know when the next competition will be? I don’t see them on any upcoming challengers.
 
So, apart from the anger & frustration many of us feel about the USFS' decision to send ShiNagy to Beijing, have we had a serious discussion about their FS? I want to say we maybe talked about it in the John Nicks competition thread, but I'm shocked that they paid Silvia Fontana & John Zimmerman for that choreo and program. They may as well have just saved some $$ and stayed in-house with Bruno's sister, Julie Marcotte, for that trash, adult contemporary, emo ballad program. Who at Champs Camp signed off on this program as being Olympic caliber?
 
Karen-W said:
So, apart from the anger & frustration many of us feel about the USFS' decision to send ShiNagy to Beijing, have we had a serious discussion about their FS? I want to say we maybe talked about it in the John Nicks competition thread, but I'm shocked that they paid Silvia Fontana & John Zimmerman for that choreo and program. They may as well have just saved some $$ and stayed in-house with Bruno's sister, Julie Marcotte, for that trash, adult contemporary, emo ballad program. Who at Champs Camp signed off on this program as being Olympic caliber?
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Thank you for expressing my frustration better than I could. I'm not sure if I feel anger just yet, but perhaps I'm still in the shock and disbelief stage. The program that they were given was not - it. To say the very least. Smh. ✨🤦🏼‍♀️✨
 
I thought ShiNagi's program was decent. I was better than at John Nicks'. There was a lack of emotion, but I liked their speed in the second half and they were clean-ish.

Which current American pair programs do you think are actually good? No programs from any of the American pairs at the John Nicks competition were worth writing home about, IMO. In particular, I thought the Love Story program with the vocal was atrocious; I couldn't sit through the whole 4 minutes.
 
orbitz said:
I thought ShiNagi's program was decent. I was better than at John Nicks'. There was a lack of emotion, but I liked their speed in the second half and they were clean-ish.

Which current American pair programs do you think are actually good? No programs from any of the American pairs at the John Nicks competition were worth writing home about, IMO. In particular, I thought the Love Story program with the vocal was atrocious; I couldn't sit through the whole 4 minutes.
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I enjoyed Danny and Ellie’s FS last year. But of course we haven’t seen their new programs yet. Not a fan of the Love Story at all. I feel like it appeals to a different generation.
 
Would you look at that... A pairs team that lands their throw and isn't so distracted with excitement over it that they don't biff the death spiral right afterwards...

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Karen-W said:
Would you look at that... A pairs team that lands their throw and isn't so distracted with excitement over it that they don't biff the death spiral right afterwards...

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you're an amazing ray of sunshine
 
Rukia said:
you're an amazing ray of sunshine
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The way I see it, this is just a coaching team supporting their team and doing what has to be done in the soft lobbying effort to get that team to the Olympics. Experience matters when you're on the world stage under high pressure.

Beyond that, with only two spots and KamO dealing with injury, there is a case to be made, should the citizenship situations for Efimova and Parkman remain unchanged, that ChanHowe are, clearly the best, healthy team we have & should be under consideration for the Team Event assignment.

We'll see how they look in a couple weeks at Trialeti Trophy, especially up against KamO.
 
Karen-W said:
The way I see it, this is just a coaching team supporting their team and doing what has to be done in the soft lobbying effort to get that team to the Olympics. Experience matters when you're on the world stage under high pressure.
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they're literally just posting vids of their top team lol i don't think it's that serious
 
Rukia said:
they're literally just posting vids of their top team lol i don't think it's that serious
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They haven't been posting much vids of any of their top teams - either EfiMit or ChanHowe in recent weeks. It's actually pretty notable that they've suddenly been posting clips of ChanHowe on Friday and today.
 
It's way too early to decide which teams might or should be in the team event. C/H look good in practice, but it's been a while since they have competed a cleanish LP. (of course could say that about almost all American teams..) But, considering reports earlier in the year I hope they've smoothed out whatever differences they've had personally. When they're on they are terrific.
 
Honestly, as much as it sucks that the US didn't get a third spot, I don't think we really have 3 Olympic worthy teams - especially since E/M almost certainly won't have the citizenship to attend.

Even who's getting those two existing spots is unclear. K/O are injured and were looking rough at the end of last season, so I'm not sure they're a lock if other teams come out swinging this fall.
 
Willin said:
Honestly, as much as it sucks that the US didn't get a third spot, I don't think we really have 3 Olympic worthy teams - especially since E/M almost certainly won't have the citizenship to attend.

Even who's getting those two existing spots is unclear. K/O are injured and were looking rough at the end of last season, so I'm not sure they're a lock if other teams come out swinging this fall.
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What exactly is "Olympic-worthy"? Making the FS? Because all three of our teams at 2024 Worlds did manage that. Same with Canada. Everyone here agreed it was a crying shame that SDDes and PerMich biffed it badly in Boston and left LaurEth in the unenviable position of having "done their job" of making the FS to ensure Canada could earn three spots outright but knowing it still wasn't enough. No one is saying they aren't worthy of being at the Olympics.

I'm really curious where the bar is set for what makes a team WORTHY of being at the Olympics. Is it being Top 24 in the SB the previous season? If so, the following US teams are "worthy" of being at the Olympics -

Kam/O'Shea
Efimova/Mitrofanov
Chan/Howe
McBeath/Parkman
Shin/Nagy

Is it being in the Top 24 of the WS currently? If so, the following US teams are "worthy" of being at the Olympics -

Kam/O'Shea
Efimova/Mitrofanov
Flores/Wang
Chan/Howe

Plazas/Fernandez at their first competition back from a year off due to injury, surgery & rehab put up a score that would place them #26 on last season's SB list - and the result from that first competition gave them enough WS points to put them at #26 right now. Is there a reason to believe they are incapable of improving that score as the season progresses and, by the time US Nats rolls around, being well within the SB and WS Top 24 list?

Or are only teams that are in the SB Top 19 and WS Top 19 deemed "worthy"? If so, that would rule out the following teams from an Olympic spot -

Nagaoka/Moriguchi
Kovalev/Kovalev (they're going to wind up with the UZB spot soon enough)
Holichenko/Darenskyi (2nd alternate)
Beccari/Guarise (sitting at #20 on the WS list right now)
Zhang/Huang

The way I see it, the US has six different teams sitting in the SB or WS Top 24 right now and a 7th one just on the cusp of those lists - and only TWO of those aren't eligible to go to the Olympics. Maybe none of them are competitive for the podium. Maybe they're all destined to fight for a spot in the lower half of the Top 10. So are pretty much every other team that's already booked a spot to Milano-Cortina who aren't named Miura/Kihara, Hase/Volodin, Conti/Macii, Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps and Metelkina/Berulava. But, bottom line, we still have 3-4 teams who are eligible and have proven RIGHT NOW they are more than capable and likely of at least making the FS at the Olympics and, for me, that makes them and the US worthy and deserving of a third spot. It's a damn shame that the USFS screwed the pooch with their selection process for this assignment and now one of those teams is going to lose out on their Olympic dream.
 
@Karen-W There are countries that don't fund athletes to the Olympics if they aren't likely to make the Top 10. You can argue whether or not you subscribe to that.

My personal definition here is that we'd have teams that could reasonably be expected to earn themself a spot at a Chinese Nebelhorn type of competition. Someone who wouldn't be gifted a spot over a more deserving non-US team. That's not their personal best, that's probably more like an average - so averaging over 178.66. Now, I won't count E/M since they can't go.

If we go off last season, K/O would qualify with a 194 and change. C/H are close with a 174. M/P are 171. S/N are 160. Of course they all scored high at John Nicks, but that's a home event. Which is my point - two teams could be expected to get over that 179 this season, and all these teams can reach that if they're on, but they're simply not consistent enough that I'd want to see them there over small fed teams.
 
Willin said:
@Karen-W There are countries that don't fund athletes to the Olympics if they aren't likely to make the Top 10. You can argue whether or not you subscribe to that.

My personal definition here is that we'd have teams that could reasonably be expected to earn themself a spot at a Chinese Nebelhorn type of competition. Someone who wouldn't be gifted a spot over a more deserving non-US team. That's not their personal best, that's probably more like an average - so averaging over 178.66. Now, I won't count E/M since they can't go.

If we go off last season, K/O would qualify with a 194 and change. C/H are close with a 174. M/P are 171. S/N are 160. Of course they all scored high at John Nicks, but that's a home event. Which is my point - two teams could be expected to get over that 179 this season, and all these teams can reach that if they're on, but they're simply not consistent enough that I'd want to see them there over small fed teams.
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But why does it matter what other countries do as far as funding? That's NOT how the USOPC or USFS has ever operated. If we have the spots, then Team USA fills 'em, even if someone is likely to finish well out of the top 10.

Going off of last season, there are teams who earned a spot at Chinese Nebelhorn who posted PB in the process. Even taking Zhang/Huang (not senior-eligible last season) and Akopova/Rakhmanin (not released last season) out of the conversation, Nagaoka/Moriguchi had to earn their spot by exceeding their 2024-25 SB by 4 points. Why presume that Chan/Howe or McBeath/Parkman couldn't have done the same? They did, after all, already manage to post SBs at their home CS (similar to how NagaMori posted a SB at THEIR home CS the same weekend) this season - even taking into account home score inflation, there's no reason to think they couldn't have managed that elusive 178.66 score necessary to beat NagaMori for the 3rd spot.

You're basically saying the US is too greedy to deserve three teams despite comprising 20% of the 2024-25 SB list and 17% of the WS list. Suit yourself, if that's really how you feel, but it's rather laughable when you consider you're advocating for the likes of Hocke/Kunkel or, potentially, Ghilardi/Ambrosini - both of whom barely made the FS in Boston - simply because they're from "small feds". Oh, and let's not forget, Nagaoka/Moriguchi, who actually did NOT make the FS in Boston. Sure, they held their shit together at Chinese Nebelhorn - barely. I truly can't wait to see them skate like that again in Milano.
 
Willin said:
Honestly, as much as it sucks that the US didn't get a third spot, I don't think we really have 3 Olympic worthy teams - especially since E/M almost certainly won't have the citizenship to attend.

Even who's getting those two existing spots is unclear. K/O are injured and were looking rough at the end of last season, so I'm not sure they're a lock if other teams come out swinging this fall.
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Chelsea and Ryan have already demonstrated they are Olympic world class, capable of top 10 at the Olympics.

👻🎃
 
Little late chiming into this discussion, but I just got caught up watching the John Nicks performances. I didn't read the protocols too closely; I just watched. Inexplicably and intangibly, I felt most at ease and was most drawn in watching Shin & Nagy.

Totally understand how Chan & Howe should've been sent to Beijing based on their higher scores, but I don't believe they would've fared better. Fourth year into this Olympiad and I've yet to see Chan land a clean sbs 3toe in competition. (If she has I certainly don't remember.)

So, right now my money is on Shin & Nagy over Chan & Howe as the 2nd pair sent to Cortina.

I will definitely agree that McBeath & Parkman should've been assigned to Skate America based on their medal showing. I'm still waiting for them to really put it all together though.

Your thoughts...
 
Jonas said:
Little late chiming into this discussion, but I just got caught up watching the John Nicks performances. I didn't read the protocols too closely; I just watched. Inexplicably and intangibly, I felt most at ease and was most drawn in watching Shin & Nagy.

Totally understand how Chan & Howe should've been sent to Beijing based on their higher scores, but I don't believe they would've fared better. Fourth year into this Olympiad and I've yet to see Chan land a clean sbs 3toe in competition. (If she has I certainly don't remember.)

So, right now my money is on Shin & Nagy over Chan & Howe as the 2nd pair sent to Cortina.

I will definitely agree that McBeath & Parkman should've been assigned to Skate America based on their medal showing. I'm still waiting for them to really put it all together though.

Your thoughts...
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uh oh you just used the unique set of keywords that will get you an essay paper in disagreement rip
 
orbitz said:
I thought ShiNagi's program was decent. I was better than at John Nicks'. There was a lack of emotion, but I liked their speed in the second half and they were clean-ish.

Which current American pair programs do you think are actually good? No programs from any of the American pairs at the John Nicks competition were worth writing home about, IMO. In particular, I thought the Love Story program with the vocal was atrocious; I couldn't sit through the whole 4 minutes.
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I associate this piece of music w/Matteo Rizzo, who I remember interpreted this music oh so well. Regardless of the jump mistakes he may have made, I remember just loving how he performed and sold this program each time out.

Having said that, I saw Shin & Nagy's performance in Beijing before I saw their prior John Nicks performance. I hardly think it's a masterpiece, but I agree that it has the potential to be impactful if they go clean on their big ticket elements and crescendo to the end. While they didn't secure that 3rd US Olympic spot, I agree that there was improvement between the two events.

Interestingly Liu & Bedard are using the same music in their FS, but I find Shin & Nagy's more impactful. Sorry, not sorry, AngelaNikodinovLove! ;)

Your thoughts...
 
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