2025-26 US Pairs Discussion - Milano-Bound By Way of Beijing & St. Louis

How is USFS going to justify sending S/N to the Olympic qualifier if they lose here to C/H? If all things are equal between these teams i think i would take C/H just for having more experience in big competions.
 
Jammers said:
How is USFS going to justify sending S/N to the Olympic qualifier if they lose here to C/H? If all things are equal between these teams i think i would take C/H just for having more experience in big competions.
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So, I shared this tweet from Jackie Wong yesterday in the 2026 OWG Qualification thread:
Karen-W said:
Interesting tweet from Jackie Wong a few hours ago...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1962980261781549210
I've always felt that John Nicks would be the final determinative result for the US entry at the OQE. Jackie doesn't make these sort of posts without good reason to believe the Beijing assignment is still up in the air. I do wonder if PlaFern are not in the running at all even though they're competing at the Kinoshita Group Cup Challenger later this week.
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I'm of the opinion that there will be a change in the entries for the OQE because Jackie certainly has the insider connections to know the assignment may not be 100% certain.
 
Karen-W said:
So, I shared this tweet from Jackie Wong yesterday in the 2026 OWG Qualification thread:

I'm of the opinion that there will be a change in the entries for the OQE because Jackie certainly has the insider connections to know the assignment may not be 100% certain.
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As soon as S/N were announced I thought it was a placeholder and knew they were gonna wait for John Nicks to finish to finalize. Isn't Wednesday the deadline?

Scores are boosted in some places because Khobta/Herrera in Jr getting 54 points without any triple elements and Level 2 Lift is very generous. I dont think that would hold up at a JGP
 
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BrightSkates said:
As soon as S/N were announced I thought it was a placeholder and knew they were gonna wait for John Nicks to finish to finalize. Isn't Wednesday the deadline?
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No, the entries by name deadline was last month - Shin/Nagy are listed as the entry, but Chan/Howe, Flores/Wang, McBeath/Parkman and Plazas/Fernandez are listed as substitutes, so the USFS could change the entry at any point before the draw. What has made most people assume that ShiNagy weren't a placeholder entry is that their names are listed on the USFS Int'l Assignments page. Most of the time, placeholder entries as shown on the ISU entry lists are listed as TBD on the USFS Int'l Assignments page.

I always thought the USFS would wait until after John Nicks/Kinoshita Group Cup (PlaFern are competing there the end of this week) to finalize the OQE entry, so that's why it was surprising to see an actual team name rather than TBD.
 
Looking over the protocols from the FS at John Nicks, I'd send ChanHowe to the OQE in a couple weeks. They were a bit messy on the throws and there weren't any SBS triples in sight, but they are always solid for a score in the mid-170s and higher if they're mostly clean. Neither ShiNagy nor McBPark have demonstrated any degree of consistency with their scores and they're both less experienced than ChanHowe. I just don't trust either of those teams to get the job done to earn the 3rd spot.
 
Meanwhile, let's discuss Flores/Wang's protocol - three invalid elements including the first two lifts and their BODS. I truly do not understand why their coaches thought that moving them up to seniors this season was a good decision. They clearly needed more time in juniors and should have been sent back to the JGP instead of taking up one of the precious few GP pairs spots by virtue of their WS Top 24 position.

This is the second season & second team in a row that Team Meekins/Mishkuteniok have moved a team up from juniors to seniors who could clearly use more time on the JGP. It didn't benefit or help Williams/Lewer last season and I'm not seeing how it's going to turn out any better for Flores/Wang this season.
 
Karen-W said:
Meanwhile, let's discuss Flores/Wang's protocol - three invalid elements including the first two lifts and their BODS. I truly do not understand why their coaches thought that moving them up to seniors this season was a good decision. They clearly needed more time in juniors and should have been sent back to the JGP instead of taking up one of the precious few GP pairs spots by virtue of their WS Top 24 position.

This is the second season & second team in a row that Team Meekins/Mishkuteniok have moved a team up from juniors to seniors who could clearly use more time on the JGP. It didn't benefit or help Williams/Lewer last season and I'm not seeing how it's going to turn out any better for Flores/Wang this season.
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I agree. They had much higher scores than when they were juniors. The botched lifts are surprising, but since last season, they've been having difficulties with their death spiral. They could have done another year doing JGP and they'd be far more successful.
 
Karen-W said:
Meanwhile, let's discuss Flores/Wang's protocol - three invalid elements including the first two lifts and their BODS. I truly do not understand why their coaches thought that moving them up to seniors this season was a good decision. They clearly needed more time in juniors and should have been sent back to the JGP instead of taking up one of the precious few GP pairs spots by virtue of their WS Top 24 position.

This is the second season & second team in a row that Team Meekins/Mishkuteniok have moved a team up from juniors to seniors who could clearly use more time on the JGP. It didn't benefit or help Williams/Lewer last season and I'm not seeing how it's going to turn out any better for Flores/Wang this season.
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I wonder if they moved up to take advantage of the citizenship issues in US pairs. But with the appearance of Liu/Bedard it looks like the US is not wanting for satisfactory pairs to fill the earned Olympic spots.
 
Karen-W said:
Looking over the protocols from the FS at John Nicks, I'd send ChanHowe to the OQE in a couple weeks. They were a bit messy on the throws and there weren't any SBS triples in sight, but they are always solid for a score in the mid-170s and higher if they're mostly clean. Neither ShiNagy nor McBPark have demonstrated any degree of consistency with their scores and they're both less experienced than ChanHowe. I just don't trust either of those teams to get the job done to earn the 3rd spot.
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No way Jose. Send Chelsea and Ryan.

šŸ¤Ŗ
 
Weren't F/W stagnating a bit last year? Dropping off the podium at JWC and going from 1 to 2 at US Nats? Their JGP scores were lower than the previous year, save for the GPF. Maybe they didn't want to hang out in juniors any more, and get the first year seniors out of the way to have a year under their belt to start the new quad? I did enjoy their performance quality - they seem to really enjoy themselves with their Star Wars and Lion King programs.

Edit: I clicked post too soon.

Also, Chan hasn't landed more than 1 clean triple in a hot minute. Worlds SP 2024, but usually it's a <, q or double. Yes, I know C/H are coming off a long term injury and multiple surgeries, but that doesn't mean her SBS jumps should take a Jet 2 holiday either. I know McB/Parkman aren't high scorers either, and aren't much better on the jumps, but last season they were scoring more on SBS than C/H. They can usually muck through a three jump combo.

It's really a crapshoot between those two teams. Both have solid twist and good lifts. I do wonder - C/H have citizenship. We are uncertain but mostly sure M/P don't have it, so in theory less pressure for M/P if they are sent. Where as C/H have a lot more to lose if they can't earn the spot.

As yes, to satisfy @AngieNikodinovLove (ANL), Liu/Bedard are showing a lot of promise for such a short time together.
 
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Karen-W said:
Looking over the protocols from the FS at John Nicks, I'd send ChanHowe to the OQE in a couple weeks. They were a bit messy on the throws and there weren't any SBS triples in sight, but they are always solid for a score in the mid-170s and higher if they're mostly clean. Neither ShiNagy nor McBPark have demonstrated any degree of consistency with their scores and they're both less experienced than ChanHowe. I just don't trust either of those teams to get the job done to earn the 3rd spot.
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I watched live and would say of the three teams mentioned above, McBPark looked the most polished at this very early season event. (ShiNagy executed triples in the short and free, something the other two pairs did not.) That aside, it seems it was announced to skaters and coaches that the determination of who would represent the U.S. at the OQE would be based on the results of a simulated competition at Champs Camp, and ShiNagy were assigned on that basis. Of course, anything is possible, but it would seem to be unusual to change the assignment criteria after the fact. (I may be wrong.)

Other observations: while they missed their triples in the FS, and I didn't much like their contorted death spiral, Akopova and Rakhmanin have very impressive triple throws and an outstanding triple twist. They will be competitive for an Olympic spot. Jumps aside, Liu and Bedard had good unison, steps and in-betweens, and his footwork on the lifts looked good.
 
nylynnr said:
I watched live and would say of the three teams mentioned above, McBPark looked the most polished at this very early season event. (ShiNagy executed triples in the short and free, something the other two pairs did not.) That aside, it seems it was announced to skaters and coaches that the determination of who would represent the U.S. at the OQE would be based on the results of a simulated competition at Champs Camp, and ShiNagy were assigned on that basis. Of course, anything is possible, but it would seem to be unusual to change the assignment criteria after the fact. (I may be wrong.)

Other observations: while they missed their triples in the FS, and I didn't much like their contorted death spiral, Akopova and Rakhmanin have very impressive triple throws and an outstanding triple twist. They will be competitive for an Olympic spot. Jumps aside, Liu and Bedard had good unison, steps and in-betweens, and his footwork on the lifts looked good.
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Yes, that was what has been implied, but it's also really stupid on the part of the USFS. A simulated competition at Champs Camp is NOT the same pressure as an actual competition, but once ShiNagy's names appeared on the USFS Int'l Assignments page, I figured it was a done deal, regardless of the results of John Nicks this week.

What made me question it was Jackie's tweet yesterday, which seemed to indicate there was still a question of who would be assigned. It also made me wonder if the scores were really close at Champs Camp due to messiness all around with ShiNagy coming out on top but only barely.

I guess we'll see if the entry on the ISU page changes.

With regard to Flores/Wang - people are already wondering on X if they should be replaced at SkAm - possibly with Liu/Bedard, though I'd rather McBPark or ChanHowe be given any SkAm host spots that are or become available since they both only have 1 GP right now.

I suppose, the more I think about it today, mulling over the results & the importance of the OQE as well as the GP assignments each team has... I'd give McBPark the 1 SkAm host spot currently TBD - their GP is CoC which is 4 weeks earlier than SkAm; giving ChanHowe SkAm would be a tough turnaround since they're assigned to NHK. I'd give ChanHowe the OQE spot and hope they can secure a 2nd GP elsewhere with late withdrawals.
 
SENIOR PAIRS
Efimova/Mitrofanov 193 (John Nicks)
McBeath/Parkman 187 (John Nicks)
Chan/Howe 183 (John Nicks)
Liu/Bedard 174 (Golden West)
Shin/Nagy 171 (Glacier Falls)
Williams/Lewer 159 (JGP Latvia)
Cooke/Kennedy 127 (Mid Atlantics)
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger 125 (John Nicks)
Flores/Wang 122 (John Nicks)
McFarland/Andjorin 107 (Skate Detroit)

JUNIOR PAIRS
Moss/Galbavy 155 (John Nicks)
Jarmoc/Witkowski 143 (Glacier Falls)
Kerr/Herbert 128 (Detroit)
Kovar/McPike 120 (Robin Cousins)
McDanold/Felberbaum 120 (JGP Latvia)
Kaplan/Griffin 113 (Glacier Falls)
Meek/Meek 110 (Robin Cousins)
Yun/Castelletti 107 (Mid Atlantics)
Gariti/Curtis 106 (Skate Detroit)
Taich/Apter 105 (John Nicks)
Alston/Church 101 (Mid Atlantics)
 
Karen-W said:
With regard to Flores/Wang - people are already wondering on X if they should be replaced at SkAm - possibly with Liu/Bedard, though I'd rather McBPark or ChanHowe be given any SkAm host spots that are or become available since they both only have 1 GP right now.
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Again, anything is possible, but, well, I just don't think assignments are pulled very often. Certainly, it could happen but imagine if every time one team outshone another at an early-season competition, assignments were rearranged .... "Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria" could ensue.
 
nylynnr said:
Again, anything is possible, but, well, I just don't think assignments are pulled very often. Certainly, it could happen but imagine if every time one team outshone another at an early-season competition, assignments were rearranged .... "Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria" could ensue.
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True, but, like you said, anything is possible. If Champs Camp was messy the USFS may very well have told them they were putting off the final decision until John Nicks.
 
In addition to the tweet, Jackie also commented on his podcast that Shin/Nagy could be a placeholder who might be replaced by one of the subs.
 
Karen-W said:
Meanwhile, let's discuss Flores/Wang's protocol - three invalid elements including the first two lifts and their BODS. I truly do not understand why their coaches thought that moving them up to seniors this season was a good decision. They clearly needed more time in juniors and should have been sent back to the JGP instead of taking up one of the precious few GP pairs spots by virtue of their WS Top 24 position.
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They earned that GP spot so if they want it, why not? They've already won a junior world medal and done well on the JGP. Moving up is the next logical step. It does appear that they are struggling, but I don't necessarily think that being on the JGP circuit would make that any better. And if your star is starting to sink, then maybe you want to take advantage of the senior opportunities now before they go away.
Karen-W said:
This is the second season & second team in a row that Team Meekins/Mishkuteniok have moved a team up from juniors to seniors who could clearly use more time on the JGP. It didn't benefit or help Williams/Lewer last season and I'm not seeing how it's going to turn out any better for Flores/Wang this season.
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I don't really see how it hurt Williams/Lewer to skate on the GP last season. They got senior experience and they still got to go to Jr. Worlds. As far as world standing points go, 8th at the GP last year earned them only 12 points less than their bronze at a JGP this year.
farahfan said:
I wonder if they moved up to take advantage of the citizenship issues in US pairs. But with the appearance of Liu/Bedard it looks like the US is not wanting for satisfactory pairs to fill the earned Olympic spots.
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I think this as well. Why not try for a potential Olympic spot? Going back to the JGP again probably did not sound exciting at all to a team that's ranked in the top 20 in the World Rankings.
nylynnr said:
Again, anything is possible, but, well, I just don't think assignments are pulled very often.
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Especially not GP spots that were earned by being top 24 on WS or SB lists.
 
her grace said:
They earned that GP spot so if they want it, why not? They've already won a junior world medal and done well on the JGP. Moving up is the next logical step. It does appear that they are struggling, but I don't necessarily think that being on the JGP circuit would make that any better. And if your star is starting to sink, then maybe you want to take advantage of the senior opportunities now before they go away.

I don't really see how it hurt Williams/Lewer to skate on the GP last season. They got senior experience and they still got to go to Jr. Worlds. As far as world standing points go, 8th at the GP last year earned them only 12 points less than their bronze at a JGP this year.

I think this as well. Why not try for a potential Olympic spot? Going back to the JGP again probably did not sound exciting at all to a team that's ranked in the top 20 in the World Rankings.

Especially not GP spots that were earned by being top 24 on WS or SB lists.
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Theoretically, I don't have a problem with moving up but, honestly, based on how both Flores/Wang looked at the end of last season, and with how Williams/Lewer looked at the end of the previous season, it's hard for me to believe that, developmentally, they're quite ready for seniors.

I'm not begrudging them the GP assignments they earned, but I think they (and Williams/Lewer last season) would have been much better off taking the Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore route from 2 seasons ago where, yes, they received a GP assignment on the initial assignments, but they decided to go back to the JGP for the prize money & greater competition opportunities. GoluGM got the CTES mins for 4CCs and Worlds by doing a late Challenger and I think that's a much better path, especially in the Olympic season when none of the Olympic team members will be assigned to 4CCs, so there's a major senior Championship opportunity ripe for the taking.
 
Straddling juniors and seniors in the same season comes with its own challenges, having to learn, train, and remember 2 versions of each program and not mix them up...at the end of the day I just don't think it matters all that much whether a successful junior team moves up this season or next. Many of these teams break up when the girl outgrows the guy or whatever other thing happens, so may as well get the experience and YOLO. Some skaters could wait until they completely age out of juniors and still not be able to hack it in senior competition for whatever reason, but you never know until you try. Also, this competition was the first one of the season for many of these teams. You kind of have to start somewhere. I don't think any of us should be shocked when a first time senior pair team has a rough competition in early September.
 
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