Canadian Skaters Group Alleges Abuse, Calls for Inquiry

[Habs]

Jeremy Ten's statement is incredibly cringey. Yikes. Tone deaf at best. Apologist at worst.

 

[Vagabond]

it’s possible that some skaters who experienced abuse at that rink may not be conscious that they were abused and therefore be in huge denial and feel the need to double down on the denial. More likely, there were certain skaters who were favourited and treated well and who may never have witnessed the abusive behaviour.

Or even both. They are not mutually exclusive.

ETA: I must add here that abusers themselves often, even usually, don't recognize what they are doing as abuse.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Or even both. They are not mutually exclusive.

ETA: I must add here that abusers themselves often, even usually, don't recognize what they are doing as abuse.

%

 

[overedge]

What is the difference between the set up of a regional training center and regular coaches who are independent contractors with clubs? Also, people mentioned that the ice dance program was a separate sort of thing. How is that? Just trying to get a sense of how these schools are set up and who is responsible for what.

I can't speak to how it works everywhere. But when Champs was set up there was a lot of concern from the clubs in the area, with the amount of resources that the section was pouring into it, that it would poach skaters from their membership. The section leadership was very clear that Champs would be a place for supplemental training, extra ice time, etc and would not be a separate club on its own. It would have its own coaches but they would work with coaches at other clubs, and IIRC a Champs coach would only be the primary coach for a skater if that skater wanted that. (This was because part of the reason for setting up the center was to get Emanuel Sandhu to come to BC with Joanne McLeod, who was his coach.)

I believe at the time there was a regional ice dance centre in Ontario (in Ottawa (?)) - it didn't last long, I think - and there may have been other regional centres that SC set up along similar lines.

The original model was that skaters who trained at Champs would be members of another club in the area, and compete for those clubs. But I believe that there were skaters who ended up training at Champs pretty much full time and didn't see the point of representing a club they didn't train at. I also get the sense that Champs didn't appreciate other clubs getting the "credit" for the work that their own coaches had done. And there may have been parents who wanted their skaters to benefit from the association with Champs. I'm not sure when the change happened but Champs is now a club of its own.

WRT to the ice dance centre, I believe that Wing & Lowe have control over that part of the operation (as in, choosing which students to take on, training schedules, etc) and McLeod has minimal involvement other than coordinating the allocation of ice time.

 

[champ]

I can't speak to how it works everywhere. But when Champs was set up there was a lot of concern from the clubs in the area, with the amount of resources that the section was pouring into it, that it would poach skaters from their membership. The section leadership was very clear that Champs would be a place for supplemental training, extra ice time, etc and would not be a separate club on its own. It would have its own coaches but they would work with coaches at other clubs, and IIRC a Champs coach would only be the primary coach for a skater if that skater wanted that. (This was because part of the reason for setting up the center was to get Emanuel Sandhu to come to BC with Joanne McLeod, who was his coach.)

I believe at the time there was a regional ice dance centre in Ontario (in Ottawa (?)) - it didn't last long, I think - and there may have been other regional centres that SC set up along similar lines.

The original model was that skaters who trained at Champs would be members of another club in the area, and compete for those clubs. But I believe that there were skaters who ended up training at Champs pretty much full time and didn't see the point of representing a club they didn't train at. I also get the sense that Champs didn't appreciate other clubs getting the "credit" for the work that their own coaches had done. And there may have been parents who wanted their skaters to benefit from the association with Champs. I'm not sure when the change happened but Champs is now a club of its own.

WRT to the ice dance centre, I believe that Wing & Lowe have control over that part of the operation (as in, choosing which students to take on, training schedules, etc) and McLeod has minimal involvement other than coordinating the allocation of ice time.

Fairly acurate. 8 rinks always had its own skaters and skating program.They wanted to poach. Joanne gave permission for who could skate on what session from other clubs. But no one saw the point in going there unless they needed extra ice. Ted and Joanne just repackaged 8 rinks.. And yes they did try to poach all the good skaters from the other coaches..... so no coaches had any reason to go there when they had ice at their own club. Joanne got all the money from Ted though... Right now Keegan Murphy has the talented Wesley. and his school has 22 coaches...
The dance program is entirely seperate but Aaron rolls similiar to Ted....

 

[champ]

Success at the cost of what is alleged to have happened at that rink doesn't seem like something to celebrate.

Also, because Champs was originally set up as a regional training centre, it has much better resources (ice time on a rink purpose-built for skating, off-ice facilities, etc) than other clubs in the section.

Not sure about that... BC does not dominate with international competitors.... right now we have Wesley who is with Keegan

 

[Willin]

it’s possible that some skaters who experienced abuse at that rink may not be conscious that they were abused and therefore be in huge denial and feel the need to double down on the denial. More likely, there were certain skaters who were favourited and treated well and who may never have witnessed the abusive behaviour.

I would add to this that what was once considered acceptable coaching - and what is still considered acceptable coaching in some corners of the world (and to some parents) - is now being more widely accepted as unacceptable.

It's not unusual to hear older skaters, skaters/parents with a certain mentality, or athletes in other sports thinking this behavior was acceptable because it still is. While I'm glad times are changing, we cannot deny that there are still those who aren't changing with the times for whatever reason. Remember when people said Kori Ade's skaters lost because she was too nice?

 

[champ]

As part of an annual audit at skating clubs, they have to disclose any liability issues or legal issues. The board of directors of said club are liable. Also all of those in authority have an obligation legally to report any abuse of a child. Skip Skate Canada, report to the authorities & safe sport as there is no code of silence, independent contractors makes no difference. You can also take civil action.

amen!

 

[champ]

Jeremy Ten (retired in June 2015) has tweeted: https://twitter.com/j3r3bear

Just wanted to hop on here and say this: I was NEVER abused. I have NEVER been abused. Y’all really think I would subject myself to another season of skating in 2015 after not making 2 Olympic teams if I was being abused? Please.

Being a professional athlete is a combination of blood, sweat, tears, and accountability. Of course it’s important to have fun and to love what you do in the process, but I firmly believe in tough love and that’s what I had.

I’m not discrediting anyone’s claims…But being strict and holding your skaters accountable is not the same thing as abuse and your inability to handle the pressures of what it takes to be an elite athlete is not grounds to blame others or make false accusations #ISaidWhatISaid

With that being said, I do not and will never endorse abuse and I am here if anyone needs someone to talk to or reach out to! If you’ve ever met me in real life, you know that I’m literally just a ball of joy #EmotionalSupportHuman

So not true Jeremy......he saw what happened to Kathyrn Kang

 

[overedge]

Not sure about that... BC does not dominate with international competitors.... right now we have Wesley who is with Keegan

I agree that BC doesn't have dominant international competitors, but Champs has its own year-round ice surface that's pretty much only used for skating. Unlike other SC clubs which run out of community centres or private rinks and have to negotiate for ice time with hockey, ringette, and other ice sports. And some clubs lose their ice completely a couple of months every year for lacrosse and other dry-floor sports.

 

[overedge]

Fairly acurate. 8 rinks always had its own skaters and skating program.They wanted to poach. Joanne gave permission for who could skate on what session from other clubs. But no one saw the point in going there unless they needed extra ice.

Yes, but initially it wasn't its own Skate Canada club. Everyone who skated there, even if they were there full-time, had to join one of the local clubs that already existed. E.g. I think Emanuel Sandhu represented the Vancouver Skating Club for a while. The section set it up that way because the local clubs didn't want to lose members to a new club with better facilities. Then later on it became its own separate Skate Canada club.

 

[champ]

I agree that BC doesn't have dominant international competitors, but Champs has its own year-round ice surface that's pretty much only used for skating. Unlike other SC clubs which run out of community centres or private rinks and have to negotiate for ice time with hockey, ringette, and other ice sports. And some clubs lose their ice completely a couple of months every year for lacrosse and other dry-floor sports.

true they have dedicated ice but othe clubs have negotiated steady ice time, but yes they do have the luxury of a permanent rink.

 

[champ]

Yes, but initially it wasn't its own Skate Canada club. Everyone who skated there, even if they were there full-time, had to join one of the local clubs that already existed. E.g. I think Emanuel Sandhu represented the Vancouver Skating Club for a while. The section set it up that way because the local clubs didn't want to lose members to a new club with better facilities. Then later on it became its own separate Skate Canada club.

yes and the plan was all the top skaters would eventually skate their under the coaching of Joanne,, it never really came to pass though.. Ted got into a screaming match at worlds in LA one year over a skater at vsc who would not move to 8 rinks..

 

[coppertop1]

So not true Jeremy......he saw what happened to Kathyrn Kang

What happened?

Jeremy's Twitter is just...yikes. He dismisses the allegations but says he's a safe person to talk to. Yeah.

 

[victorskid]

The reply to the Skate Canada response has been posted on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FSforChangeCan/status/1654473741202759682

They make it clear that abuse issues exist across the country and echo the need for a national inquiry as made by other sports groups.

 

[Skaterdad19]

As part of an annual audit at skating clubs, they have to disclose any liability issues or legal issues. The board of directors of said club are liable. Also all of those in authority have an obligation legally to report any abuse of a child. Skip Skate Canada, report to the authorities & safe sport as there is no code of silence, independent contractors makes no difference. You can also take civil action.

So from what I have learned so far is that clubs and skating schools are different. Skating schools do not have a board so they have no requirement to disclose any issues. They are owned by individuals and are not non-profit organizations. The coach in question to my issue was from a skating school rather than a club so there is no board to take up the issue with. It seems this school in BC is in the same boat in that there is no accountability from the coaches who run it. But I have had many people tell me that they have had just as much trouble getting rid of coaches from their club, even with numerous allegations against them. So there are PARENTS who are ok with accused coaches continuing to coach since boards are made of parents. Everyone seems to be waiting on Safesports to make the decision before taking coaches off the ice... Which is crazy to me.
If a teacher was accused of abuse, they do not keep teaching in the classroom. So why are coaches still on the ice?

 

[Debbie S]

If a teacher was accused of abuse, they do not keep teaching in the classroom. So why are coaches still on the ice?

If Canada is as lawsuit-happy as the U.S., then I'd say fear of lawsuits/judgments against them. In the U.S., any club or rink would much prefer someone else to make the decision, to clear their responsibility. And there's also the culture of not wanting to rock the boat, fear of retaliation, go along to get along, so people prefer to not stick their neck out and question anything. Which perpetuates the problem.

 

[overedge]

The reply to the Skate Canada response has been posted on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FSforChangeCan/status/1654473741202759682

They make it clear that abuse issues exist across the country and echo the need for a national inquiry as made by other sports groups.

This is a very smart response. They explicitly say that they want SC to publicly commit to supporting a national inquiry before engaging with them further. So either SC does that, or SC looks like it is ignoring complaints of extensive abuse.

The letter also says the group has received complaints of abuse from more than 60 skaters, from many different rinks.

 

[sap5]

So from what I have learned so far is that clubs and skating schools are different. Skating schools do not have a board so they have no requirement to disclose any issues. They are owned by individuals and are not non-profit organizations. The coach in question to my issue was from a skating school rather than a club so there is no board to take up the issue with. It seems this school in BC is in the same boat in that there is no accountability from the coaches who run it. But I have had many people tell me that they have had just as much trouble getting rid of coaches from their club, even with numerous allegations against them. So there are PARENTS who are ok with accused coaches continuing to coach since boards are made of parents. Everyone seems to be waiting on Safesports to make the decision before taking coaches off the ice... Which is crazy to me.
If a teacher was accused of abuse, they do not keep teaching in the classroom. So why are coaches still on the ice?

So is this true? How does the Ice Academy of Montreal operate? Is it attached to a club, and that's where the complaints would go? Or is it somehow it's own thing?

 

[Sylvia]

So is this true? How does the Ice Academy of Montreal operate? Is it attached to a club, and that's where the complaints would go? Or is it somehow it's own thing?

I.AM Charter of Values document (August 2020): https://www.iceacademyofmontreal.com/_files/ugd/28f0a6_5508dc24b28c4c29ae0e27159fe45b9f.pdf

 

[Judy]

Oh, my.... I am so stupid that I didn't get the meaning of parentheses Thank you for the hugs! I even shed a tear now for both my stupidness and the hugs. Thank you.
Yes, I was unfortunate to get spinal injury but it is getting slowly better. At least, being in bed, I can learn the meaning of many parentheses in the text...

Sending you lots of hugs too . Ugh to spinal injury …

 

[overedge]

So is this true? How does the Ice Academy of Montreal operate? Is it attached to a club, and that's where the complaints would go? Or is it somehow it's own thing?

I believe IAM is an independent operation. The skaters represent the club/federation they already belong to, before coming to IAM .

I see from the link that @Sylvia posted that complaints at IAM go to the IAM managing director or to the ombudsman. However, as the ombudsman appears to be affiliated with this agency https://www.markeyintlarts.com/ that represents some of the IAM skaters and coaches, I would question whether this agency is a truly independent third party.

If a club/federation is paying for a skater to train at IAM, I would guess that the skater could use the complaints process of that club/federation. But I don't know for sure.

 

[Debbie S]

I assume abuse reports against any IAM coach would go to Skate Canada or the SafeSport-equivalent org in Canada?

 

[overedge]

I assume abuse reports against any IAM coach would go to Skate Canada or the SafeSport-equivalent org in Canada?

This is what I'm wondering. It could definitely go to the federal agency that's like SafeSport https://abuse-free-sport.ca/complaint-process

But because IAM is not a Skate Canada club, I don't know if Skate Canada would accept a complaint about IAM, unless the skaters making the complaint were Canadian skaters.

 

[Debbie S]

This is what I'm wondering. It could definitely go to the federal agency that's like SafeSport https://abuse-free-sport.ca/complaint-process

But because IAM is not a Skate Canada club, I don't know if Skate Canada would accept a complaint about IAM, unless the skaters making the complaint were Canadian skaters.

Hmmm, well, in the U.S., USFS can handle abuse complaints against USFS-certified coaches, except for sexual abuse complaints which automatically go to SafeSport, regardless of which skater is making them. Does Skate Canada certify skating coaches (i.e. background check, continuing ed) or is that another org?

 

[overedge]

Hmmm, well, in the U.S., USFS can handle abuse complaints against USFS-certified coaches, except for sexual abuse complaints which automatically go to SafeSport, regardless of which skater is making them. Does Skate Canada certify skating coaches (i.e. background check, continuing ed) or is that another org?

Skate Canada coaches have to take the NCCP program which is a national training program for coaches in all sports https://info.skatecanada.ca/index.p...-national-coaching-certification-program.html

And coaches have to pass a background check https://info.skatecanada.ca/index.p...tions-online-criminal-record-check-e-pic.html but as was pointed out, all that proves is that the coach was never convicted of a crime. There's a reference to a background check https://skatecanada.ca/coaches-officials/coaches/ but I don't know if this goes beyond the criminal record check.

 

[Debbie S]

Looks like Skate Canada has a specific progression for coach training/certification. IMO, that's better than the U.S., where anyone can join the PSA, go through the background check and a few online courses that mostly consist of reading a slide deck, and then they're a coach. I would think since Skate Canada certifies/registers the coaches, they could act/investigate an abuse complaint against any of its member coaches? Or maybe they just defer to the federal agency, which might be better, as long as there's not a multi-year backlog.

 

[overedge]

Looks like Skate Canada has a specific progression for coach training/certification. IMO, that's better than the U.S., where anyone can join the PSA, go through the background check and a few online courses that mostly consist of reading a slide deck, and then they're a coach. I would think since Skate Canada certifies/registers the coaches, they could act/investigate an abuse complaint against any of its member coaches? Or maybe they just defer to the federal agency, which might be better, as long as there's not a multi-year backlog.

The federal agency only started very recently, and apparently it already has a backlog of complaints

I honestly don't know if Skate Canada considers itself as certifying the coaches. It registers them, as in that they have to meet a set of criteria to be able to coach in a Skate Canada club, but the certification is from the NCCP https://info.skatecanada.ca/index.p...ered-professional-coach-in-good-standing.html

 

[sap5]

I believe IAM is an independent operation. The skaters represent the club/federation they already belong to, before coming to IAM .

I see from the link that @Sylvia posted that complaints at IAM go to the IAM managing director or to the ombudsman. However, as the ombudsman appears to be affiliated with this agency https://www.markeyintlarts.com/ that represents some of the IAM skaters and coaches, I would question whether this agency is a truly independent third party.

If a club/federation is paying for a skater to train at IAM, I would guess that the skater could use the complaints process of that club/federation. But I don't know for sure.

"Athletes, coaches and staff who witness any form of discrimination, violence or physical or psychological abuse must report every incidence to I.AM Ombudsman (Charles McKee, [email protected]) or the Managing Director of the Ice Academy of Montreal ([email protected])"

Agree that this entity doesn't not appear to be that separate from IAM, nor does Mr. McKee appear to have any actual ombuds training? Plus, the fact that athletes "must" report what they see to this entity? What if they don't want to and would rather report to the Canadian version of safe sport?

ETA: I remember back in the day, complaints about Igor and Marina were sent to Arctic Edge, their training facility. Could complaints about IAM be sent to the public arenas IAM uses?

 

[overedge]

@sap5 as far as I know the rinks are run by the City of Montreal, which I would guess has some sort of conduct policies for groups using its facilities.