The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

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clairecloutier said:
What Ivan are we talking about? Ivan Bukin? (If so, I guess what’s interesting is that I have no particular feel for his on-ice persona. I have a impression of Stepanova, but not really of him.)

I could see low lifts working well for both G/P and C/P.
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For me, Ivan had a very puppy dog like quality and an almost chipper youthful verve and enthusiasm. He was very perky. I thought she was just there.

Anthony is also peppy and I liked him best when he was fun and smiley. I know it’s good to stretch his performance abilities though, so I can see why Scott and co. went in this direction. I still feel like it’s a very Scott-like intense leading man role that Anthony is being squeezed into. I find both of them read too young for this program, but people love it so I know nothing.
 
I don’t think any of Parsons, Ponomarenko or Lagha have really developed their expression. There’s room to grow for each of them. Of the younger guys, Kolesnik and Beaumont both have that leading man capability.

ETA: not that becoming a leading man is essential. G/F do well as an equal team and C/B play to their leading lady strengths.
 
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her grace said:
I don’t think any of Parsons, Ponomarenko or Lagha have really developed their expression. There’s room to grow for each of them. Of the younger guys, Kolesnik and Beaumont both have that leading man capability.

ETA: not that becoming a leading man is essential. G/F do well as an equal team and C/B play to their leading lady strengths.
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To be fair to them, they’re all still pretty young (apart from Michael who was born in 1995). Zak was born in 1999 and Anthony, Vadym and Peter were all born in 2001. And although all teams have experience, I do think that missing out on championship assignments isn’t the best for growth as gaining those experiences seems to really boost confidence.
 
So long as young skaters are skating the programs they want to skate, I'm happy. I don't like when coaches dictate what senior level skaters should skate to, because then they don't know who they are or how to be confident in their own choices. Its time to be collaborative at this level.
 
I'm surprised Anthony & Ivan haven't been compared more often, tbh. Even though Anthony carries the burden of two legends vs. Ivan's one, they certainly have my respect for following in the family business, so to speak.

It's apt that Anthony is more like Ivan than Scott, but I'd argue he's more like (younger) Charlie White than Ivan, let alone Scott. I agree that their FD doesn't seem organic to them (him), but it's well-constructed and imho the more engaging Gershwin, so...

What of C&P's past programs has worked well for them? I just queued up a couple of their programs from the 2018 and 2019 seasons on YouTube, because I can't remember what that metaphorical "arrival" program was for them.
 
I can see certain comparisons between Anthony and some of the skaters mentioned, he reminded me of Nikita when he was young and Charlie a bit, but

1) Anthony is Anthony who is still his own distinct skater no matter what similarities you might notice
2) Christina is Christina. This is a team sport, Anthony isn't skating with Tessa or Meryl or Victoria or Stepanova or whoever, he's skating with Christina, who has kind of been left out in the cold in this discussion. I do think she is a versatile performer who can sell a lot of different styles, but she's particularly suited to this FD. I don't think it's as natural a fit for Anthony, but everyone has to stretch themselves eventually, and I thought he really grew in performance over the season, I thought he started to really settle into this program at 4CC. But in the end its a team dynamic, and I think their connection is solid enough to sell things one of them might not be able to on their own.
Andora said:
What of C&P's past programs has worked well for them? I just queued up a couple of their programs from the 2018 and 2019 seasons on YouTube, because I can't remember what that metaphorical "arrival" program was for them.
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Their junior breakthrough was 2016/17 with their blues SD I still really like and Muse FD that got them the bronze at junior worlds, and I also really like their Junior Latin SD from the next season, and love their tango RD from 2018/19.
 
her grace said:
I don’t think any of Parsons, Ponomarenko or Lagha have really developed their expression. There’s room to grow for each of them. Of the younger guys, Kolesnik and Beaumont both have that leading man capability.

ETA: not that becoming a leading man is essential. G/F do well as an equal team and C/B play to their leading lady strengths.
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Donahue, as big and strong as he was, never was leading-man material either. Somerville and Baker are immensely talented dancers but are too small for that traditional leading-man role. I personally find Reviya and Brissaud very leading-man but maybe that’s because I find both of them attractive.

The Shibs also succeeded without any leading-man vibes from Alex.
 
The leading man is suave and romantic, typically, unless he’s an anti-hero in the movies. Zach was more the heavy IMO. Alex was too boyish, Baker doesn’t typically do romantic dances and Ian is definitely still too young and boyish, he’s like Jimmy Olsen.
 
If we're using the prescribed, limited version of "leading man" then the only ones we've seen in the last quad were Evan Bates & Nikita Katsalapov. (And I'd argue Donahue was pretty good at it when their programs weren't shite)

But are we talking about a 1940s, Hollywood Golden Era style because that's the program C&P have this year? I think it's fair to say this isn't tailor made for Anthony, but watching some of their older programs again, he certainly has leading man ability.

:lol: Maybe we can get away from "leading man" as a description because for me, it speaks to more of an era ice dance has left behind, and Patrice Lauzon would have possibly been the last of them. :)
 
IMO in ice dance a 'leading man' is one who actually captures your attention. So many teams the eye only goes to the female, but teams where the man gets some of the attention - that to me is a leading man. An example is Virtue/Moir where he captured my attention as much as she did. Same with Papadakis/Cizeron. Gilles/Poirier kind of fit this too. A team like Chock/Bates, it's like his purpose is to make sure all the attention is on her. To me that is not a leading man (though he's obviously a fantastic dancer).
 
Bates and Soerensen definitely have that "leading man" quality of the men competing this season. I could even make an argument for Paul Poirier, TBH.

Cizeron also would have fit that bill nicely, IMO.

To some extent, I think one of the elements necessary is a decent height differential between the male and female partner, plus a slightly muscular build. There also needs to be an intangible commanding presence (not dominance, just certain, sure command of the ice and blade).

As others have said, someone like Alex Shibutani is too boyish in his looks to fill that role. Same with Tim Koleto, to name a current skater. Daisuke has flashes of leading man potential, but then you sense his insecurity and he isn't quite there yet.
 
Speaking of leading man material, On Ice Perspectives just posted this video of Bekker/Hernandez skating their RD at Bryant Park.

www.instagram.com

On Ice Perspectives ❄️🎥 on Instagram: "British Junior Ice Dancers Phebe Bekker and James Hernandez perform their “Tango de Besame” Junior Rhythm Dance in Bryant Park. Full video on YouTube 📺 __⛸️ @phebebekker_ @_james.hernandez __👣 by Nicholas Buc

15K likes, 108 comments - oniceperspectives on February 16, 2023: "British Junior Ice Dancers Phebe Bekker and James Hernandez perform their “Tango de Besame” Junior Rhythm Dance in Bryant Park. Full video on YouTube 📺 __⛸️ @phebebekker_ @_james.hernandez __👣 by Nicholas Buckland, Penny...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

James Hernandez oooooozes leading man.
 
Karen-W said:
To some extent, I think one of the elements necessary is a decent height differential between the male and female partner, plus a slightly muscular build. There also needs to be an intangible commanding presence (not dominance, just certain, sure command of the ice and blade).
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Maxim Staviski sure didn't have much in the way of height differential but he definitely had leading man energy.
 
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