Kolyada Withdrawn from Olympics, Replaced by Semenenko

[Vash01]

I've lost track of when we did what.

But starting June 15th or so, the rule was no masks for the vaccinated. Looked it up and Dec 15th is when the mandate for everyone to wear them came back. So, yeah, vaccinated people didn't have to wear masks when you were here and since so many are vaccinated, probably not a lot of people were wearing them.

That makes perfect sense. Actually Dec 1-12 I was in central CA. So that was before the Dec 15 change. On Dec 12 I was at the airport, so of course everyone wore masks.

 

[aka_gerbil]

My county put the mask mandate back in place by August. By the end of the month, masks were dual-purpose crud and smoke protection.

Edit: ours was back by the end of July.

 

[MacMadame]

My county put the mask mandate back in place by August. By the end of the month, masks were dual-purpose crud and smoke protection.

Edit: ours was back by the end of July.

I think the Bay Area did it too. But I don't remember when and I don't think it was as early as July.

 

[Allskate]

That's great and all, but this chart is from before Omicron. Btw I got the Alpha version in April 2020 and my better half (who never got sick and did not go on to develop antibodies) was the only one who went out for groceries for us in the 3 weeks before I developed symptoms. The only place I went was a small dollar store to quickly buy some elastic for the cloth masks I was hand-making. Even though I was in and out in less than 5 minutes and wearing one of my cloth masks I still must have picked it up there. These posts are coming across as victim-blaming people who get sick despite taking all kinds of precautions and that chart seems pretty misleading to me since LOTS of people have caught this crud during interactions far shorter than any on the chart and that was before omicron. That said yes N95s are best and surgical masks if you can't get your hand on properly fitted N95s.

Yes, briefer close contact with infected people is a bigger problem with Omicron, but the basic principle that better masking can reduce both the chances of getting it and the severity of infection still holds true, and I think a lot of people aren't engaging in particularly good masking practices but believe that they are taking precautions. Cloth masks were what was available to most people at the beginning, so you didn't have much choice then. But, cloth masks are not going to be very effective, not just because Omicron is more infectious but also because of the lack of effective filtration and the poor fit of cloth masks. Surgical masks are better, but the fit often isn't good enough for people, even when they are trying. (I live where there is a mask "mandate," and when I go to the grocery store I often see people with no mask, a mask around their neck, or a mask below their nose.) N95s have been harder to get, but KN95s and KF94s have been available for quite some time and generally are more effective than the surgical masks. But I even see people going to the trouble of getting KN95s and then wearing the KN95s clearly without a proper fit and without even trying to use the wire nose bridge.

I was surprised that so many skaters, coaches, and family members at U.S. Nationals were taking risks by not engaging in more effective masking practices. I think there has been such a battle over whether to require masks that there is little messaging or discussion about the most effective way to mask. And I'm amazed by how many people seem to think it's safe to eat and drink around others as long as the rules allow it. It's sad to think about what some of the Olympic athletes are going to be doing (or not doing) before they get to compete, including in airports on their way to Beijing.

 

[MacMadame]

And I'm amazed by how many people seem to thinyk it's safe to eat and drink around others as long as the rules allow it.

People assume that the rules keep you safe. Without understanding that the rules are based on risk vs. benefit, not absolute safety. Which is why I have been so frustrated by scofflaw businesses saying if grocery stores can be open, why can't my yarn shop?? Grocery stores aren't open because they are safe. They are open because people have to eat so the risk is worth it.

 

[Miezekatze]

I think with Omicron its more or less luck.

There are Handball European Championships right now and Germany ended up with 14 infected players.
I don't think the German handball team was less careful than other teams, still afaik now other teams not ended up having that many positive cases.

Also I think it will be more and more difficult for athletes to isolate before important events, because at least in Europe more and more countries are lifting restrictions in the mid of the Omicron wave, because hospitals are not overloaded and its decided that mild or asymptomatic cases among vaccinated people can be tolerated. in Switzerland health officials said that 10% of the Swiss population got infected with Omicron in the last week, so 10% of people within 7 days. But they don't have all that many restrictions anymore regardless, because their hospitals are not really stressed anymore. So I think it's ridiculous to think that a Swiss athlete could stay 100% safe from catching Omicron just by wearing masks right or avoiding contacts.

Its probably a lot more difficult to isolate yourself if the majority of a country is returning back to normal more and more.

Plus athletes might have children and family too or living together with family and they are humans and not robot and might find social contacts more important than trying everything to not get infected before Olympics. I mean someone like kamila valieva is 15. I don't think it's realistic to think she's going to isolate from everybody.

I think in the long run there needs to be a solution for asymptomatic athletes especially, because right now they are being punished for being tested all the time, while regular people might be going around their life without even noticing such an infection.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I'm not surprised that the athletes who have spent two years trying not to get C19 are the ones coming down with it now. Natural immunity from previous infection is a significant (though not foolproof) method of protection, in addition to vaccination. The Olympic podiums may well end up showing the benefits of herd immunity, and the folly of criticizing skaters and others for not wearing masks, eating at buffets, and otherwise living life during the p@ndemic. Those who spent the past two years avoiding the v*rus may be crying into their tissues at home, succumbing at the worst possible time and with far fewer antibodies to protect them, while those who embraced this as a natural and manageable part of life (most of the other Russian skaters, for instance) may be standing on top of the podium. Choices have consequences, and as we're seeing now, there is sometimes a heavy price to pay for avoiding the v*rus.

 

[Miezekatze]

I for example did not try to avoid the virus very much ever since I got vaccinated.

I always wore masks were it is mandated, but I always went indoor dining or doing indoor yoga unmasked and stuff like that. Also during the Delta wave and so far the Omicron wave.

So, because if some people get infected by one masked trip to the supermarket, theoretically I should have been infected several times by now... If this followed any "rules", which obviously it doesn't. Of course maybe I just didn't notice a past infection despite weekly tests.

But I think with Omicron and less rules in most countries it's out of line to "blame" athletes for not managing to keep corona free. The timing of the Olympics is just unfortunate for that.

 

[MsZem]

I suppose it's a good thing the Russian team is training in Krasnoyarsk, and not Florida?

Indeed.

I feel so bad for Kolyada and the others who have tested positive, and very concerned that this will not be the end of it.

 

[BittyBug]

For @Louis.

'Natural immunity': How effective is it against omicron? – DW – 01/14/2022

As omicron outbreaks take over, many people are asking: Could the immunity you get from a COVID infection be the best protection against the virus, especially as it continues to mutate? We looked at the latest science.

www.dw.com

Why natural immunity doesn’t stop the omicron variant

The omicron variant spreads to those with immunity.

www.deseret.com

Efficacy of antibodies induced by natural infection, vaccination, or both against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron and Beta variants

A study has demonstrated that antibodies induced by two-dose COVID-19 vaccination or natural infection exhibit very low neutralizing activity against the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2.

www.news-medical.net

 

[Deleted member 221]

For @Louis.

From your own links :

#1

Other studies have indicated that people with a combination of immunity acquired through past infection plus two shots seem to fare the best of all. Immunologists have dubbed this phenomenon "hybrid" or "super" immunity.

#2

However, individuals immunized with three vaccine doses, or COVID-19 recovered patients with double or triple vaccination, exhibit considerable protection against the variant.

People have been criticizing skaters, most especially Eteri's skaters, for all kinds of "bad choices" and "super-spreader events." Well, it turns out that those may have been in fact good choices, and people like Kolyada were the ones making bad choices. A small but brave minority of scientists, including the much-vilified Dr. Sunetra Gupta and the Swedish immunologists, have told us this all along. It's just that precious few people (skaters or otherwise) were listening.

People need to stop with this false rhetoric that "X did everything right!" because they wore masks, took precautions, etc. This is factually wrong. Living life and coming down with a mild infection post-vaccination seems to be -- scientifically speaking -- the best course of action. So if anyone gets to be morally superior and claim to have done everything right, it's all of those maskless people at buffets, whether at Russian Nationals, U.S. Nationals, or anywhere else. All the likes of Kolyada have done is put themselves at heightened risk of missing the Olympics. I genuinely hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, but choices have consequences.

 

[Spikefan]

Those examples are infection plus two or three shots. From my understanding the under 18 Eteri skaters are not vaccinated (of course some may be and just aren’t saying which is their right).

Regardless, I hate putting the blame on any of these athletes if they have been vaccinated or could not because they are underage in their country. Kolyada has had serious health issues in the past so I do not blame him for doing all he could do.

 

[zebraswan]

So if anyone gets to be morally superior and claim to have done everything right, it's all of those maskless people at buffets, whether at Russian Nationals, U.S. Nationals, or anywhere else. All the likes of Kolyada have done is put themselves at heightened risk of missing the Olympics. I genuinely hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, but choices have consequences.

Masks help prevent the spread to other people, so it is absolutely absurd that antimaskers could ever try to claim moral superiority.

I am so glad to be in Latin America where everybody wears masks everywhere, without any pushback, because people care about their community and do not want to pass the virus on to someone who may be vulnerable.

 

[Scott512]

Wishful thinking?

I'm assuming they're creating as much of a bubble as they can based on the rumors of tighter restrictions at the training camp in light of the positive cases. See:

Thanks. How do you create a bubble?

It's getting alarming. Maybe Diana and Gleb will skate in the team event after all and and EGs daughter could end up with an Olympic gold medal.

 

[Scott512]

I suppose it's a good thing the Russian team is training in Krasnoyarsk, and not Florida?

Are you mocking my state or the Siberian city?

 

[thvu]

Are you mocking my state or the Siberian city?

Florida does an excellent job of mocking itself.

 

[Cherub721]

Are you mocking my state or the Siberian city?

I think they were mocking the thread drift! There is a special CV forum, after all.

 

[Coco]

From your own links :

#1


#2


People have been criticizing skaters, most especially Eteri's skaters, for all kinds of "bad choices" and "super-spreader events." Well, it turns out that those may have been in fact good choices, and people like Kolyada were the ones making bad choices. A small but brave minority of scientists, including the much-vilified Dr. Sunetra Gupta and the Swedish immunologists, have told us this all along. It's just that precious few people (skaters or otherwise) were listening.

People need to stop with this false rhetoric that "X did everything right!" because they wore masks, took precautions, etc. This is factually wrong. Living life and coming down with a mild infection post-vaccination seems to be -- scientifically speaking -- the best course of action. So if anyone gets to be morally superior and claim to have done everything right, it's all of those maskless people at buffets, whether at Russian Nationals, U.S. Nationals, or anywhere else. All the likes of Kolyada have done is put themselves at heightened risk of missing the Olympics. I genuinely hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, but choices have consequences.

It's really unfair to say Kolyada made bad choices by - we think - not deliberately exposing himself sooner. First of all, we don't know what his daily life has been like. Secondly, he spends a ton of time around a bunch of people who wear masks below their nose, if at all. Is there any evidence he goes around castigating them? Also, we don't know if he contracted it sometime since early 2020. You can get this 2x, after all. He is super prone to sinus / upper respiratory issues if memory serves, so it wouldn't be shocking if he'd had this before.

This need to 'know' what the right thing is to do, and to judge those you perceive as not doing it is super annoying and unhelpful no matter what side of the argument it is coming from.

 

[Scott512]

Masks help prevent the spread to other people, so it is absolutely absurd that antimaskers could ever try to claim moral superiority.

I am so glad to be in Latin America where everybody wears masks everywhere, without any pushback, because people care about their community and do not want to pass the ***** on to someone who may be

Do you know that Ireland has given up and and now consider this an endemic and not a pandemic. Is there will be no more mask mandates there.

I was in Orlando, Florida in December and a majority of people at the shopping mall, the CVS pharmacy where I got my booster shot (god bless the USA), and the Four Seasons hotel were NOT wearing masks. It’s like ********* doesn’t exist in Florida. I realize Florida is not indicative of the whole of the US but it was eye-opening to me. You can’t go anywhere indoors in Canada without wearing a mask.

Do you know that England is giving up on the pandemic and now considers it an endemic and will be eliminating mask mandate laws?

The rest of the world will catch up it's just a matter of time. And yes I live in Florida and I wear an ear pulling KN95 mask every store I go into. But people wore masks for almost 2 years and these viruses still spread like wildfire everywhere. For instance where I have family in the State of New York people wear masks and they've been hit hard by this virus for 2 years..
They've done the right things and you still can't stop it. That's why countries like Ireland and England are giving up and are going to live with it.

I've done the right thing and gotten jabs after the elderly have gotten theirs. But I think more leaders need to talk about the right things to do with taking vitamins demands and exercise that can help people a lot. Off to take my vitamin C and vitamin D3.

As for figure skating I hope once they get to the bubble in Beijing things settle down and everything's good and they can just do what they do best which is scake for us.

 

[Scott512]

It's really unfair to say Kolyada made bad choices by - we think - not deliberately exposing himself sooner. First of all, we don't know what his daily life has been like. Secondly, he spends a ton of time around a bunch of people who wear masks below their nose, if at all. Is there any evidence he goes around castigating them? Also, we don't know if he contracted it sometime since early 2020. You can get this 2x, after all. He is super prone to sinus / upper respiratory issues if memory serves, so it wouldn't be shocking if he'd had this before.

This need to 'know' what the right thing is to do, and to judge those you perceive as not doing it is super annoying and unhelpful no matter what side of the argument it is coming from.

You can do the right things and still get coronavirus it's really hitting these young athletes hard. I know many people who've done the right thing and had C.

We do not know if misha was being reckless I sincerely doubt it with the Olympics near. I'm sure all the skaters are doing the best they can to stay healthy is they healthy but this invisible foe will never be beaten.

 

[PRlady]

I don’t think Shpilivaya and Kostornaia- to name two whose careers were heavily impacted by getting infected - would agree that that was the “right thing.” Kolyada was prone to sinus infection and probably took extra care and caution as anyone with risk factors is supposed to do. He was unlucky but I can’t imagine anyone prescribing illness for him prophylactically.

As someone who had a mild case that came back due to high stress and a weak immune system, I am really at the idea that anyone should just get sick and get over it.

 

[soogar]

Florida cases are zooming despite the high vaccination rate. https://news.google.com/*********/map

Our cases are high as well- with vaccines , boosters and mask mandates. FL has fewer hospitalizations as well, unless you want to claim that they aren't reporting cases there either. New variant has symptoms like common cold. I bet a lot of people aren't getting tested unless they are visiting vulnerable family members, or have come in contact with someone or serious symptoms.

You can do the right things and still get ******** it's really hitting these young athletes hard. I know many people who've done the right thing and had C.

We do not know if misha was being reckless I sincerely doubt it with the Olympics near. I'm sure all the skaters are doing the best they can to stay healthy is they healthy but this invisible foe will never be beaten.

All people like to do is finger point when someone gets sick or blame their political views. It's BS. It's been going around and I know people who have caught it doing all the right things. I myself have not caught it and have no antibodies. and I've eaten in restaurants, gone to fitness classes (masked and unmasked) and go to the gym after everything has opened and even shopped during the pandemic. The only thing that has changed for me is that I work remotely and do not take public transportation on a daily basis. I got boosted and everything but it really doesn't make a difference for transmission.

 

[marbri]

I think with Omicron its more or less luck.

There are Handball European Championships right now and Germany ended up with 14 infected players.
I don't think the German handball team was less careful than other teams, still afaik now other teams not ended up having that many positive cases.

Also I think it will be more and more difficult for athletes to isolate before important events, because at least in Europe more and more countries are lifting restrictions in the mid of the Omicron wave, because hospitals are not overloaded and its decided that mild or asymptomatic cases among vaccinated people can be tolerated. in Switzerland health officials said that 10% of the Swiss population got infected with Omicron in the last week, so 10% of people within 7 days. But they don't have all that many restrictions anymore regardless, because their hospitals are not really stressed anymore. So I think it's ridiculous to think that a Swiss athlete could stay 100% safe from catching Omicron just by wearing masks right or avoiding contacts.

Its probably a lot more difficult to isolate yourself if the majority of a country is returning back to normal more and more.

Plus athletes might have children and family too or living together with family and they are humans and not robot and might find social contacts more important than trying everything to not get infected before Olympics. I mean someone like kamila valieva is 15. I don't think it's realistic to think she's going to isolate from everybody.

I think in the long run there needs to be a solution for asymptomatic athletes especially, because right now they are being punished for being tested all the time, while regular people might be going around their life without even noticing such an infection.

Iceland lost a lot of players as well. From what I heard/read the players here quarantined for two+ weeks leading up to the championships (away from family etc..) to be sure they were all fine and then the coach said that there was no attempt whatsoever at creating any sort of bubble around this event and that seems obvious when you see it go through teams like Germany and Iceland.

 

[Miezekatze]

Iceland lost a lot of players as well. From what I heard/read the players here quarantined for two+ weeks leading up to the championships (away from family etc..) to be sure they were all fine and then the coach said that there was no attempt whatsoever at creating any sort of bubble around this event and that seems obvious when you see it go through teams like Germany and Iceland.

Yeah, even though I think this is also related to the lifting of restrictions in many countries (There's some restrictions in Slovakia and no restrictions in Hungary. And the Germans even got infected while still being in Slovakia). When the restrictions are lifted most hotels and cities will pretty much go back to "normal business". And then in order to create a bubble the event organizers would probably have to invest a lot of money, like rent a hotel just for the athletes in order to keep the hotel from renting to other guests and other events like business meetings and stuff. I imagine that would result in enormous extra costs, I'm not sure how many sports federations can afford to rent a whole hotel just for their athletes and pay for all the additional staff that creating a bubble would mean.

I also imagine it will become harder and harder to find enough service workers and security workers and volunteers who are willing to enter a bubble for events.

So I'd guess bubbles in the future will only happen for sports with gazillions of money in it, which I assume handball is not one of.

I have to say the Estonians seem to have done a lovely job with Euros and 4CC though, but of course it's probably a bit easier than with group contact sports.

 

[skatfan]

I'm not surprised that the athletes who have spent two years trying not to get C19 are the ones coming down with it now. Natural immunity from previous infection is a significant (though not foolproof) method of protection, in addition to vaccination. The Olympic podiums may well end up showing the benefits of herd immunity, and the folly of criticizing skaters and others for not wearing masks, eating at buffets, and otherwise living life during the p@ndemic. Those who spent the past two years avoiding the v*rus may be crying into their tissues at home, succumbing at the worst possible time and with far fewer antibodies to protect them, while those who embraced this as a natural and manageable part of life (most of the other Russian skaters, for instance) may be standing on top of the podium. Choices have consequences, and as we're seeing now, there is sometimes a heavy price to pay for avoiding the v*rus.

Wow. I’m glad I don’t live in your head Louis.

 

[Scott512]

Our cases are high as well- with vaccines , boosters and mask mandates. FL has fewer hospitalizations as well, unless you want to claim that they aren't reporting cases there either. New variant has symptoms like common cold. I bet a lot of people aren't getting tested unless they are visiting vulnerable family members, or have come in contact with someone or serious symptoms.

All people like to do is finger point when someone gets sick or blame their political views. It's BS. It's been going around and I know people who have caught it doing all the right things. I myself have not caught it and have no antibodies. and I've eaten in restaurants, gone to fitness classes (masked and unmasked) and go to the gym after everything has opened and even shopped during the *********. The only thing that has changed for me is that I work remotely and do not take public transportation on a daily basis. I got boosted and everything but it really doesn't make a difference for transmission.

If you got boosted how do you not have antibodies?

You go to the gym to work out which is one of the germiest places you can go?

There is no reason to finger point anymore.

I think the reason some countries are giving up with all these mask and vaccine mandates is because people are doing the right thing and still catching this Omicron.

It's also interesting how the CDC is coming around that natural immunity is the best but I still don't want to catch it.

 

[Sylvia]

Andrey Simonenko's opinion/speculation:

Игра в партизан. Почему сбор фигуристов перед Олимпиадой засекретили

Сборная России по фигурному катанию в настоящее время проводит сбор в Красноярске, откуда 1 февраля вылетит в Пекин для участия в Олимпиаде. Корреспондент РИА... РИА Новости Спорт, 27.01.2022

rsport.ria.ru

The Russian figure skating team is currently holding a training camp in Krasnoyarsk, from where it will fly to Beijing on February 1 to participate in the Olympics. The correspondent of RIA Novosti discusses why news from there has to be obtained in a roundabout way, and comes to the conclusion that there may be a reason for this.

Machine translated excerpt:

But at the moment it's not about cooperation [with the media]. And the fact that even if the federation currently has something to hide, in terms of what is happening at the training camp, it seems that this makes some sense.
The point is this. The mechanism of arriving at the Olympics is such that if you don’t report a positive test for covid, especially if the course of infection is asymptomatic, and then get a negative test after that, then another one, then you can sort of call in Beijing. According to the rules, of course, the presence of a covid infection in the medical history must be reported to the medical service of the organizing committee and go through a certain bureaucratic procedure. Send in a questionnaire, certificates with the results of positive and negative tests, get a red stamp on a special form, pass two additional tests for coronavirus in addition to the two mandatory ones (if you were sick recently) - and go ahead. But if you skip the part of the quest with documents and just pass two negative tests, then take a charter to the Olympic capital, it seems like no one will guess that you were sick.

 

[Yazmeen]

Sigh...

Per the CDC:

"MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with YKW is better than the immunity I get from YKW vaccination.​

FACT: Getting a YKW vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to YKW than getting sick with YKW."

But then again, as I've been told repeatedly by folks who disagree with me politically that I'm just a "doctor" (quotes used because I'm out of clinical practice but never mind that I was a medical educator for 17 years who has researched and written on YKW extensively prior to retirement). Translation: I know nothing, and their own research and cherry picking of data to support their conclusions are FAR better than mine or those of actual medical experts.

CDC Link - tiny url provided to allow link to be usable here and not have wording blocked: www.tinyurl.com/2p89vd9e

 

[Miezekatze]

I don't think the countries who are declaring the virus endemic are "giving up". They're just nearing/entering the endemic phase from their point of view..

Our German health experts say the current restrictions are just a way to win time to vaccinate/boost more people. But you can't do that forever (and in Germany you always run out of people who want the vaccine). They say at some point of time you'll have to let the virus run. Countries like Spain, Ireland, GB have enough overall immunity (through vaccinations and infections) to do that already.

Omicron speeds this up by infecting more people in a short time.
FWIW I think of course one reason why European countries are a bit quicker to lift restrictions with Omicron is of course that many have good enough health systems to manage the current infections.
In Switzerland for example the hospitalization rate is constantly pointing downwards, despite Omicron. So they just don't see it as a big problem anymore, but as a medium problem right now.

But I'm sure also South American countries will move to the endemic phase eventually and are not going to be staying in pandemic mode forever.

For sports all those differences between countries are making things more complicated when organizing international events.

 

[skatingfan5]

^^^ “... no one will guess you were sick” unless you still have enough cv fragments in your system that result in a positive test in Beijing.