From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

[Bigbird]

I don't know if she wants to go back, but Plushenko is now saying in interviews that he is starting to limit Trusova's jumps. That's exactly why she said she left Khrystalniy.... .

The situation is tough. The only way to move forward is to make the progress that Kolyada did with Mishin while at Plushenko. If she doesn't, well, that would be too sad.

At these nationals she has only one real goal, make the podium. That is it.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I honestly don't see any scandal in the judging here. The PCS were the main reason for the gap. It doesn't matter how much improvements Aleksandra has made because Anna and Kamila (and Alena who isn't here) are still WAY ahead of her in that category. They really are that much better then her. I think Daria has better PCS then her too.

Without the technical advantage they should beat her. A higher level skater always beat the more average one even when they make some errors. It only doesn't happen when it's a meltdown.

 

[Tinami Amori]

The situation is tough. The only way to move forward is to make the progress that Kolyada did with Mishin while at Plushenko. If she doesn't, well, that would be too sad.

At these nationals she has only one real goal, make the podium. That is it.

Her goal is not to make the podium, her goal is to win. She's been "making podiums" for the last two years @ Khrystalniy, but not the 1st places she wanted.

Trusova needs to go back to "non-girly" style of skating and music which she had before, sci-fi, legendary princesses, abstract themes, tom-boy, alien, etc. Because without quads and 3A, everything else she does is good enough but pretty mediocre/average. Before she had a style, now she has none. She can't be "the russian rocket" in fluffy purple dresses and with beginner level "balletic arms".

If Plushenko has a brain, he'll bring back "old Sasha".. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnPsWR4XcAA4c3B.jpg

 

[NAOTMAA]

Until his skaters start winning big Plushkenko needs to zip his mouth and start acting more diplomatically. He will never gain Eteri/Moskvina levels of politicking power if he keeps doing what he's been doing. No federation in the world will put up with that crap

His past success as a skater does not automatically grant it. He's just hurting his skaters right now. I'm not sure he realizes that

 

[Natanielle825]

It just seems crazy that Kamila could have ended up with the highest technical score with that fall. I get that it's possible, her axel was only worth about a point less than everyone else's, Anna messed up her spin, Sasha and Daria got level 3 step sequences... But giving Sasha an edge call on her flip w/o giving edge calls to the other 3 girls' flips and lutzes showed the bias - I didn't see a clear inside or outside edge between any of them.
I agree that her goal was definitely to win, not just place, but now she's got to be feeling that she's got no chance at anything higher than 3rd. Especially if Anna and Kamila go clean but even if they don't - unless Anna just collapses in the middle. I worry Sasha's mindset will be poor going into the free and she'll mess up, or that she'll decide between now and then that she needs to put more quads back in, or that even if she skates clean she'll be really discouraged by the loss.
I also agree that I hope she does more dynamic programs next season, as far as crowd appeal, but nothing will get her the PCS of A+K - has she even been getting higher marks in the SP compared to previous years? (Keeping in mind that we've only seen all these programs judged in Russia.)

 

[Natanielle825]

Also, can they ditch the coach cam for the love of god? I can't stand Daniil's theatrics, he's the freaking choreographer. Eteri looked glaringly professional next to him.

 

[NAOTMAA]

^^^Anna has at worst a flat edge on the lutz and as a internationally top ranked skater she won't ever get called for that (nationally or internationally) unless the judge is being extremely picky on everyone.

Aleksandra wasn't getting called last year either. She's getting called now because her coach has almost zero politicking power. If she went to another coach who had a more successful coaching history she would have continued getting no call but she didn't. It's the same throughout the skating world regardless of country

 

[Tinami Amori]

^^^Anna has at worst a flat edge on the lutz and as a internationally top ranked skater she won't ever get called for that (nationally or internationally) unless the judge is being extremely picky on everyone.

Well, if panels after panels of judges, nationally and internationally, for several years, are not calling a flat edge on her lutz, maybe it is you who need to re-think what you see..... (or want to see).

 

[angi]

I honestly don't see any scandal in the judging here. The PCS were the main reason for the gap.

The biggest issue is inconsistent judging. If they want to give Trusova an edge call for the flip they need to acknowledge and do the same with Valieva and Shcherbakova (and the rest of course). And it's even more ridiculous when judges only "discover" there's an issue with a jump once a skater leaves Eteri.

 

[Tinami Amori]

... once a skater leaves Eteri.

small correction: "poached/stolen for no reason"...

 

[angi]

Well, if panels after panels of judges, nationally and internationally, for several years, are not calling a flat edge on her lutz, maybe it is you who need to re-think what you see..... (or want to see).

Please... She got called 4 times in one competition as it should always be, and it's true for every skater with such a bad lutz technique. She's a wonderful skater but she should be marked according to what she puts on the ice, and to see her getting +4/+5 for her flutz when they give Tuktamysheva +3 at best for her textbook lutz sums up perfectly the quality of judging we are seeing.

 

[angi]

small correction: "poached/stolen for no reason"...

Oh no! Stolen? Send her and everyone involved to the guillotines! how dare she make decisions about her own career.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Please... She got called 4 times in one competition as it should always be, and it's true for every skater with such a bad lutz technique. She's a wonderful skater but she should be marked according to what she puts on the ice, and to see her getting +4/+5 for her flutz when they give Tuktamysheva +3 at best for her textbook lutz sums up perfectly the quality of judging we are seeing.

I re-watched slo-mo Shcherb and Val SPs on youtube. I don't see "edge issue". If you care to, give me your slo-mo proofs that they do.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Oh no! Stolen? Send her and everyone involved to the guillotines! how dare she make decisions about her own career.

Oh, please....... lets not rehash how Plushenko for months has been approaching CSKA/Davydov's, Sambo/Eteri's, and other coaches and skaters offering them the sun and moon to leave their current rinks. There is a written proof of his messages to some of them.

 

[Bigbird]

Her goal is not to make the podium, her goal is to win. She's been "making podiums" for the last two years @ Khrystalniy, but not the 1st places she wanted.

Trusova needs to go back to "non-girly" style of skating and music which she had before, sci-fi, legendary princesses, abstract themes, tom-boy, alien, etc. Because without quads and 3A, everything else she does is good enough but pretty mediocre/average. Before she had a style, now she has none. She can't be "the russian rocket" in fluffy purple dresses and with beginner level "balletic arms".

If Plushenko has a brain, he'll bring back "old Sasha".. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnPsWR4XcAA4c3B.jpg

Can even the old Sasha compete with the new talent coming up?

 

[mjb52]

I'm not sure it's fair to blame the coaches for their appearance during the coach cam; we can most likely assume it's not their choice to be on camera. It's so distracting though, like Inception, seeing the skater and then a small part of the skater in the coach cam.

Until his skaters start winning big Plushkenko needs to zip his mouth and start acting more diplomatically. He will never gain Eteri/Moskvina levels of politicking power if he keeps doing what he's been doing. No federation in the world will put up with that crap

His past success as a skater does not automatically grant it. He's just hurting his skaters right now. I'm not sure he realizes that

With Plush, it's just hard to tell what he's in this for. Is it publicity for himself, a new challenge, does he care about the skaters but have an awkward way of showing it? On the one hand, I've been annoyed at the past by the slightly conservative focus in skating on respectability, and its effect on people who didn't fit the mold; on the other hand, with Plush, there's some new stuff that is in the mix in terms of his own already existing celebrity. I also think it's a little different when you are the coach and not the skater. I don't know, like sometimes I think that skating would be very boring if everyone was so so nice and well-behaved, but it's hard to say as yet how Russian skating has really benefited from the whole Plush phenomenon.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Here are 3 figure skating celebrities, who are "no friends of Eteri" as their comments/actions proved in the past, and here is what they have to say about today's Ladies SP results.

Avebuch: "all ladies performed not totally perfect, the final scores are absolutely relevant to how each one of them skated".

Авербух: «Все девушки выступили не безошибочно, итоговые баллы абсолютно соответствуют тому, как все катались» - 25 декабря 2020 - Sport24

Хореограф и постановщик Илья Авербух оценил выступление женщин на чемпионате России по фигурному катанию.

sport24.ru

"Bestemyanova, thinks that Trusova received fair marks for her programme."
"I can be subjective, but when Trusova does not jump high difficulty elements, then for me the niche/essence disappears from her skating. Perhaps this is because I expect these elements from her. But, in my opinion, today this is her place and I still want to see the elements of high difficulty from her, she is famous for this, this is what we expect from her, "Bestemyanova said.

Бестемьянова считает, что Трусова получила справедливые оценки за короткую программу

Фигуристка занимает четвертое место

tass.ru

"Leonova does not believe that Trusova was underscored in the Short Programme" and more details on the scores in the event.

Леонова не считает, что Трусову засудили после короткой программы на чемпионате России

Вице-чемпионка мира-2012 по фигурному катанию Алена Леонова в разговоре с «СЭ» прокомментировала результаты женской короткой программы на чемпионате России в Челябинске.

www.sport-express.ru

 

[Wyliefan]

If RusFed wants to host pissing matches for coaches, they should produce a reality show. If they want to hold skating competitions, they should stick to judging skating.

 

[dinakt]

About Russian Men:

Bronze medalist Mark Kondratiuk is a promising, and already somewhat popular, young artist:

Кто такой Марк Кондратюк – сенсационный дебютант ЧР по фигурке: рисует картины и участвует в выставках

Марк Кондратюк – и его достижения.

gol.ru

I am a big fan of Mozalev, think he's got it all (including the right temperament).

Hope Kolyada keeps his LP for the Olympic season. I cannot imagine anything fitting him better.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Did they call the blatant flutz from Usacheva? I really love the girl (more than Sherbakova) but her lutz is freaking not in the right edge.

 

[Frau Muller]

Also, can they ditch the coach cam for the love of god? I can't stand Daniil's theatrics, he's the freaking choreographer. Eteri looked glaringly professional next to him.

I understand using a bit of Coach Cam when the coaches are celebrities (Team Eteri, Plush, Mishin). It’s downright ridiculous when it’s the unknown coach of a lower-ranked skater. Just show a couple of seconds of a coach’s reaction during the slo-mo montage, as they do in most ISU events!

 

[Vash01]

I honestly don't see any scandal in the judging here. The PCS were the main reason for the gap. It doesn't matter how much improvements Aleksandra has made because Anna and Kamila (and Alena who isn't here) are still WAY ahead of her in that category. They really are that much better then her. I think Daria has better PCS then her too.

Without the technical advantage they should beat her. A higher level skater always beat the more average one even when they make some errors. It only doesn't happen when it's a meltdown.

My main complaint today was about Usacheva who had a flawed performance and yet was placed over a clean Trusova (And Liza wo had a step out on the 3A). Usacheva’s basics are nowhere near those of Anna or Kostornaia or Valieva’s. Looked like politics to me.

 

[hanca]

My main complaint today was about Usacheva who had a flawed performance and yet was placed over a clean Trusova (And Liza). Usacheva’s basics are nowhere near those of Anna or Kostornaia or Valieva’s. Looked like politics to me.

Not only that. I found Valieva to be overscored here too. When Trusova felt from her 3A in the SP in Russian cup, the judges made sure the deduction is such that it sent the message to do the hard jumps only when the skater is sure they land it. When Valieva falls on 3A in the SP, the judges give her such marks that it sends the message that it doesn’t matter if she lands her hard jumps, because the marks won’t be significantly affected. That reminds me the situation when Patrick Chan was getting the message that it doesn’t really matter if he lands his jumps, because they will find there the points to give him the gold medal anyway. Why bother having competition if the judges want to choose the winner regardless of how the skaters skated? They may as well send the medal by post and don’t bother to sit through the programs.

 

[Natanielle825]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1342567089807257600

Anna goes into her flip from a straight line. You can clearly see the ice tracing. That's not my opinion, I didn't put it there. If Trusova deserved an F(!), so did she.

 

[mjb52]

Are you referencing that bright white line near her foot? Is that her actual ice tracing or just a scratch in the ice like the other scratches all around? Like, if you look at the top of that mark, it is really hard to imagine how she would have had to jerk her body for that line to be continuous with her present movement? It also continues on behind her blade I think. Maybe I'm wrong and you mean a different mark - it would be helpful I guess to see the video, but sometimes I think fans need to cut down on the hyper vigilance, it's not healthy.

 

[Bigbird]

What happened to Liza and Bazin today? Too much nerves?

Why is it that S/B didn't excite me much. Stepanova still moves like a giraffe on ice barely bending her knees. A pretty giraffe mind you. And Bukin constantly plasters his face with that ridiculous smile. Why?

Not to say that I'm an uber fan of competition ditching, S/K, either but Russian ice dance, for all their super spreader events and camps, seem a bit stale this season.

Any juniors worth watching? It seems Katashinskaya has outgrown her partner. She has spark but she needs to tame her twizzles. She's built like the Stepford wives but she moves like Tessa Virtue. Sigh. She needs a rescue...

 

[Natanielle825]

Are you referencing that bright white line near her foot? Is that her actual ice tracing or just a scratch in the ice like the other scratches all around? Like, if you look at the top of that mark, it is really hard to imagine how she would have had to jerk her body for that line to be continuous with her present movement? It also continues on behind her blade I think. Maybe I'm wrong and you mean a different mark - it would be helpful I guess to see the video, but sometimes I think fans need to cut down on the hyper vigilance, it's not healthy.

Yes the bright white line. It is her tracing, the faded line behind it is someone else's. Here's the video, the slow mo is at 4:57. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAi8BCb2_ZU&t=297s
Is selective vigilance from the judges any better? Trusova is the ONLY lady in the whole competition who got an edge call. We're talking about judging biases, which shouldn't be so prevalent, don't you agree? I have nothing against Scherbakova, I posted a few days ago that I wanted her to win. But like everyone says, either call everyone or call no one.

 

[happycamper2554]

[QUOTE="Bigbird, post: 5919422, member:

Not to say that I'm an uber fan of competition ditching, S/K, either but Russian ice dance, for all their super spreader events and camps, seem a bit stale this season.

After seeing Anna and some other people here in post covid. Im very happy not to watch S/K die on ice here. I think them and zhulin made a smart call.

 

[mjb52]

I see what you mean @Natanielle825 about the tracing but it's sort of pulled out of context - she is doing transitions into the jump isn't she, so she turns, steps down, deepens the edge and then jumps from a shallow inside edge. Like, I am definitely no expert at ALL so I could be wrong, but I think you have to look at the whole jump not just the replay. Anyway, for me, it's sort of beside the point, I thought Trusova should have been first, but I think it is more about the solidity of her performance than a quibble over an edge call.

 

[Bigbird]

[QUOTE="Bigbird, post: 5919422, member:

Not to say that I'm an uber fan of competition ditching, S/K, either but Russian ice dance, for all their super spreader events and camps, seem a bit stale this season.

After seeing Anna and some other people here in post *********. Im very happy not to watch S/K die on ice here. I think them and zhulin made a smart call.

That may have been their reason but the how and the resultant optics of what they did make it look disingenious.

But as we've all noticed before as long as these two were vertical they would have been crowned champions not so?

Either have a competition or simply mail it in. Sigh.