Tarasova/Morozov Cheer Thread

I am in not an optimistic person and have the same growing sense of impending doom for them that I had for V/M in the run up to Sochi. They were great at test skates, but they needed to come out perfect here to overcome what happened in SLC. That ship has sailed. They haven’t won anything in almost a year (Russian nationals). It’s anti-momentum big time, and that’s hard to overcome. It’s a thing that snowballs. At this rate, they could fail to make the gpf, lose the russia #1 position, finish off podium at nationals, and then no Euros/worlds—which pretty much ends them competitively this quad.
 
aka_gerbil said:
I am in not an optimistic person and have the same growing sense of impending doom for them that I had for V/M in the run up to Sochi. They were great at test skates, but they needed to come out perfect here to overcome what happened in SLC. That ship has sailed. They haven’t won anything in almost a year (Russian nationals). It’s anti-momentum big time, and that’s hard to overcome. It’s a thing that snowballs. At this rate, they could fail to make the gpf, lose the russia #1 position, finish off podium at nationals, and then no Euros/worlds—which pretty much ends them competitively this quad.
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again they only need 3rd finish in SC, CoR is literally a cakewalk with only B/K as competitors
 
Sh*t. I'm not an optimistic person, but I'm not apocalyptic either. :lol: This is the second competition in the season, the first one where they weren't gasping for air like dying fish. Could you at least give them til the end of the competition before dooming them to hell for the next 3 years??

Vladimir needs a haircut or just go man bun. :lol: He's got to have limited peripheral vision at this point, which just makes me nervous.

I miss Evgenia's catsuit. That program calls out for something sexier than the dress she had here.
 
Amy L said:
That program calls out for something sexier than the dress she had here.
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I personally think the black practice outfit from test skates was better than either costume she’s had so far, so I’d go with something in that ballpark. She’s a stunning lady!
Btw, thanks for the positivity :)
 
I just thought with their technical quality SCI would be a cakewalk too. I mean they very well could still win, but with this change of coach and fresh reset kind of season I was expecting them to be more consistent, and not like sitting in third after SP below a no-name Russian team.
 
bcash said:
I just thought with their technical quality SCI would be a cakewalk too. I mean they very well could still win, but with this change of coach and fresh reset kind of season I was expecting them to be more consistent, and not like sitting in third after SP below a no-name Russian team.
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With their technical ability and skating skills, given the rest of the skate, t/m should have had a cushion to absorb the mistake and come out ahead. I don’t think S/H or J/C would have been dinged that hard if they’d made the similar kind of mistake. That’s what concerns me.
 
bcash said:
I just thought with their technical quality SCI would be a cakewalk too. I mean they very well could still win, but with this change of coach and fresh reset kind of season I was expecting them to be more consistent, and not like sitting in third after SP below a no-name Russian team.
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MTM are not exactly a no name team. They are Canada’s current number one, skating in Canada, so they got the cushion.

aka_gerbil said:
With their technical ability and skating skills, given the rest of the skate, t/m should have had a cushion to absorb the mistake and come out ahead. I don’t think S/H or J/C would have been dinged that hard if they’d made the similar kind of mistake. That’s what concerns me.
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ITA about S&H or J&C not being dinged. However, those two pairs have already earned the judges’ respect, while T&M have developed a reputation fir inconsistency, despite their strong skates at worlds 2019.

T&M need to reestablish themselves, which is harder than just establishing themselves. In retrospect they shouldn’t have gone to SLC, given the circumstances. It will take them a while to pull themselves out of the hole. They will need to be flawless in the LP and in their next GP.

I am always pessimistic so I need to stop expecting flawless performances from them. However, the judges need to reward their exquisite positions, strong SS, and lines. If they land the jumps and throws, the judges will reward those other things. I see so many ugly positions by other pairs (not B&K) getting ignored! They have big twist and big throws that often don’t get rewarded highly enough, but again it comes down to consistency in jumps and throws.

I am not willing to write off this season. They are still adjusting to new surroundings,new coaches and choreographers. They need to develop confidence. They need to believe in themselves.
 
bcash said:
I just thought with their technical quality SCI would be a cakewalk too. I mean they very well could still win, but with this change of coach and fresh reset kind of season I was expecting them to be more consistent, and not like sitting in third after SP below a no-name Russian team.
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B/K aren't a no-name team. They burst out in seniors last season and immediately gained a lot of fans, including me. In addition to their talent, they are Moskvina's team!

I think coaching changes need more time to gel. Arutunian tells skaters to allow two years. It's definitely too soon to freak out. :)

On the vital issue of Morozov's hair, I'm definitely pro. He might need to work on his blow-drying skills though.
 
They definitely should have pulled out of SLC. They did not need the competitive experience of skating early season, at altitude, after missing a week of practice, after getting back to the US from Europe the day before the competition. I felt like something broke in them, particularly her, after the FS in PyeongChang. They seemed to have turned some sort of corner at worlds, and then were so strong at test skates. I wonder if SLC was psychologically a step back. Besides that, there was no need to put skates out in front of judges when they were not prepared.

From watching different ice dance teams over the years, when it gets to the point that the team has to skate flawlessly perfect every time out, it rarely happens. It’s harder to be perfect when it is necessary to be perfect. T/M are nervous competitors to begin with, so I don’t foresee this ending well.

I agree the judges aren’t rewarding them enough for the things they do well—sublimely well at that.

I know the coaching change and all, but T/M don’t have the luxury of taking two years to adjust.
 
I think my predictions of apocalypse were spot on. This is clearly a situation not working for them. Of course, they’re done as Russian #1 now, so it really doesn’t matter who coaches them. They’d probably be as well off to move on from skating at this point.
 
I feel so badly for them, it is like they are skating under a constant dark cloud. I don't even think the issue is them or their programs I think the bigger problem is that they can’t seem to fight the negative preconception of them and their programs. I honestly think it is really unfair but I have never seen a team or individual conquer this kind of situation, although I hope they can.
 
aka_gerbil said:
I think my predictions of apocalypse were spot on. This is clearly a situation not working for them. Of course, they’re done as Russian #1 now, so it really doesn’t matter who coaches them. They’d probably be as well off to move on from skating at this point.
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Please! I am a pessimist too and I am also disappointed by their mistakes - particularly on the lift. Something is very off but it is not the time to throw in the towel yet. If they skate equally bad at COR, then I might.

I do believe they are done as Russia’s number one. B&K are the future. I do like B&K but they are not quite there yet, artistically. So if T&M skate clean, they may still have a chance. I am not holding my breath though.

As their fan, I will support them. They may need a sports psychologist. What they are going through is not normal.
 
Michalle said:
I feel so badly for them, it is like they are skating under a constant dark cloud. I don't even think the issue is them or their programs I think the bigger problem is that they can’t seem to fight the negative preconception of them and their programs. I honestly think it is really unfair but I have never seen a team or individual conquer this kind of situation, although I hope they can.
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I have been watching skating for 25+ years now and I have also never seen a team or skater overcome a situation like this. They are just torturing themselves now. There’s a whole world beyond skating. There is no shame in walking away to find things the other things they might be good at and might make them happy.
 
I don't know what exactly causes late-onset nerve conditions, but they need to figure something out. I thought they were performing well and got the program back after the popped sal, but then they brain farted a lift. If they don't make the GPF, I'd send them to a bunch of B competitions (well, the few that have pairs) until they discover how to autopilot again. They shouldn't make silly mistakes, but I don't know what to do with them short of lobotomy.

MTM were ridiculously overscored, and I'd normally say.. well, Canada. But Worlds is in Canada, so I can see that MTM are being put in a place to ease into the bronze medal position at the very least. :rolleyes:

I doubt T/M need to totally quit skating. :lol: Even if they don't want to compete a lot longer, Russians have a much longer shelf life and can make skating a career if they want. Dobriazko/Vanagas have been doing shows and cheesefest competitions in Russia for nearly 20 years and they don't remotely have the medal hardware as T/M.

I'd rather see them fix their heads and actually give things a try, but if Marina can't slap sense into them, I don't think anyone can.
 
Amy L said:
I don't know what exactly causes late-onset nerve conditions, but they need to figure something out. I thought they were performing well and got the program back after the popped sal, but then they brain farted a lift. If they don't make the GPF, I'd send them to a bunch of B competitions (well, the few that have pairs) until they discover how to autopilot again. They shouldn't make silly mistakes, but I don't know what to do with them short of lobotomy.

MTM were ridiculously overscored, and I'd normally say.. well, Canada. But Worlds is in Canada, so I can see that MTM are being put in a place to ease into the bronze medal position at the very least. :rolleyes:

I doubt T/M need to totally quit skating. :lol: Even if they don't want to compete a lot longer, Russians have a much longer shelf life and can make skating a career if they want. Dobriazko/Vanagas have been doing shows and cheesefest competitions in Russia for nearly 20 years and they don't remotely have the medal hardware as T/M.

I'd rather see them fix their heads and actually give things a try, but if Marina can't slap sense into them, I don't think anyone can.
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Moskvina could have helped them but it is too late for that.

I think they really need to see a sports psychologist or any psychologist. I do t think they should quit skating. They have too much talent to do that.

I do remember Berezhnaya Sikharulidze going through tough times after they moved to the US. They eventually found themselves again, but it took one very tough year. There were rumors that they were going to split. They didn’t and they have an OGM now.
 
Even if they were to somehow fix their heads at this point, the damage is already done politically and they no longer have a shot at the things they wanted to win. My thought is why not cut their losses and invest the next years on other parts of life instead of things now unobtainable to them.

I’m sure they could do shows. But I also recall that they’ve expressed interest in completing university educations, and Evgenia once mentioned wanting to really learn how to draw as more than a hobby.
 
aka_gerbil said:
Even if they were to somehow fix their heads at this point, the damage is already done politically and they no longer have a shot at the things they wanted to win. My thought is why not cut their losses and invest the next years on other parts of life instead of things now unobtainable to them.

I’m sure they could do shows. But I also recall that they’ve expressed interest in completing university educations, and Evgenia once mentioned wanting to really learn how to draw as more than a hobby.
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I have started feeling irritated by your posts. It is Their life and they will decide what to do with it.

My opinion is that they may need a short break at this point, before they start preparing for COR. They need to hit the reset button, and forget all about expectations- of others and their own.
 
Don't forget they looked pretty dead emotionally for the majority of last year too and yet still put it together at worlds so its not completely over yet.

But hopefully they really figure it all out sooner rather then later because it looked like here the judges weren't willing to protect them as they would easily the other top teams like J/C or S/H. It's almost like the judges are starting to tire of them. And the judges may then never properly reward them when they finally put it together, like punishing them for their past inconsistency. Or perhaps what happened here can be all explained simply as part of the desperate attempt to push M-T/M to gold and I'm exaggerating.

They shouldn't be losing to M-T/M or B/K (even if I do love them). I just hope it doesn't crush them to the point of no return :(
 
I still don't know what you're going on about. Just because they lose doesn't mean they'll never win. This isn't ice dance in the 90s with permanently settled results. Even ice dance isn't like that now! (well, everyone but PapCis of course) T/M have beaten Savchenko/Massot, Sui/Han, Duhamel/Radford, literally everyone, and all those other pairs were 'allowed' to win golds later. Both the Gribbles and T/M beat Peng/Jin at the US Classic, and P/J were 'allowed' to win Skate America even with her being slammed into the boards on a throw fall. Anyone in a good competitive mindset can still win. ice is slippery, etc.
 
I think they are still carrying their SLC performance. It is in the past but not to them. A costume change for both may help.

They need to be hypnotized.
 
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Amy L said:
I still don't know what you're going on about. Just because they lose doesn't mean they'll never win. This isn't ice dance in the 90s with permanently settled results. Even ice dance isn't like that now! (well, everyone but PapCis of course) T/M have beaten Savchenko/Massot, Sui/Han, Duhamel/Radford, literally everyone, and all those other pairs were 'allowed' to win golds later. Both the Gribbles and T/M beat Peng/Jin at the US Classic, and P/J were 'allowed' to win Skate America even with her being slammed into the boards on a throw fall. Anyone in a good competitive mindset can still win. ice is slippery, etc.
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I think the problem is all those teams you just mentioned are far more mentally tougher and not as fragile as T/M appear. They picked themselves up and bounced back far easier. It never required the majority of a season to recover from setbacks as T/M needed last year from their Olympic disaster. Their setbacks made them even more determined to succeed in the next competition whereas T/M seem to let their failures weigh on their minds in a negative way. They all had as you said "a good competitive mindset" whereas T/M don't
 
Well, yes, I know all that. The discussion has been that they have lost their reputation and should quit skating altogether because they have lost and will never be allowed to win ever ever again in a billion years. :lol: That is patently not true, mentioning the previous pairs. T/M used to be quite consistent, especially when they were new to seniors and didn't know any better. They had a personal breakup and tanked the Olympics within a few months of each other. They haven't been able to mentally toughen back up since. I don't know if it's possible or not, I don't know them personally. All I'm saying is that they'd be allowed to win. Difficult, but possible. So many pairs competitions end with the winning team being the one that got the least close to physically dying during a program.
 
I'm so frustrated at and for them. I just want them to come out and freaking DARE the judges not to put them in first place even against S/H. I don't want them to be yet again in the situation where they're fighting against the tide with offbeat music and costume choices (I always enjoy their programs because I could watch them skate to anything.) I want them to nail the elements and do it with passion and confidence like they are the best team in the world. Because they are.
 
Competition scares the living hell out of them. The difference between their performance at the test skate and their last two competitive performances of the same program is beyond night and day. I don't know what it will take to make them more tougher for competition but it clearly hasn't been found yet.
 
I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but they just moved across the world to a new country to train under a new coach. There’s going to be an adjustment period and some growing pains in the process. A few bad competitions doesn’t mean their career is over.
 
Yes, they did make a big move, but this is more than adjustment period woes. This is not working. Max, with literally no coaching experience, had them skating better last season. They are 2 for 2 on disaster competitions at this point. One more disaster, no GPF. One more disaster after that, no Euros or Worlds.

I was all for them going to Marina for choreo, but she is clearly too rusty on coaching pairs technically.
 
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