What point is being made? They tied in the long program but Evan's short program PCS was higher. I recall at the time thinking that Plush was overscored in PC in the long program.
Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Irina Slutskaya
- Thread starter TAHbKA
- Start date
What point is being made? They tied in the long program but Evan's short program PCS was higher. I recall at the time thinking that Plush was overscored in PC in the long program.
stlcomet
Member
- Messages
- 31
The silliness of the situation started with the 2nd paragraph of thread comment #294 and the response in #295 and continued.
I said Evan won in 2010 because of his overall PCS were higher than Plush's Technical content. The poster replied that Evan won the gold because his TES were higher than Plush and then proceeded to tell me to be silent. I took offense and maybe I somehow misunderstood their meaning (though I'm not sure what an alternate would be).
They were incorrect in their statement (plus I was a little insulted) and I, in a salty way, corrected them and gave a breakdown of the detailed short and long programs scores and did the math to prove the facts. But they didn't understand, I think, that those scores are facts and not my opinion. At that point: A) I was an idiot for not recognizing there was a communication or translation issue and B) I was an idiot for arguing with a Plush superfan. Like most superfans, including me, there is no talking sense to them and I should have moved on.
Long story short (too late I know), something was lost or misunderstood in translation and I wasn't smart enough to notice that was the issue and got my panties in a bunch, I guess.
GoForGold
Cowtocks Rule!
- Messages
- 250
Thank you so much for sharing this interview Tahbka!
I have not seen Slutskaya skate in such a long time, and it was so interesting to hear from her.
She does seem a bit bitter indeed, and I think that some of Russian ladies from Slutskaya's era tend to come across that way in their interviews...e.g. Butyrskaya.
I have not seen Slutskaya skate in such a long time, and it was so interesting to hear from her.
She does seem a bit bitter indeed, and I think that some of Russian ladies from Slutskaya's era tend to come across that way in their interviews...e.g. Butyrskaya.
You claim that her free skate at SLC "was one of her worst" but you don't even remember if she had a step-out or not...somehow your opinion doesn't sound very concinving to me
lala
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,812
hm...this is ridiculous and you know it....But we all know here Plush is a bad skater.
This is what the North-Americans wanted to say all the time. But Evan was unbelieveable great! That was a well-deserved, unforgettable victory. If Plush wasn't better as the North-Korean guy what was he? An incredible boring, ackward, uninspring skater without a little -little charisma..
After your post I need to think about how many blind experts,commentators, fans exist in the world who supported Plush. 
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
- Messages
- 40,381
I'm not even a fan of Lysacek - - the only two times before Vancouver I liked him at all were at the 4C's that Buttle won after an ordinal mash-up and at practice at Skate America the first time it was in Everett. He surprised me in Vancouver, because his FS felt over in a flash. I came in hoping for a Takahashi, Lambiel, Weir podium in any order, with Chan as a spoiler, if one of the others faltered. (And a fantasy of Kozuka shining.) So much for your theories.hm...this is ridiculous and you know it....But we all know here Plush is a bad skater.
I love how you twist things to whatever you want to hear: I said that the North Korean skater was faster and skated with more power than Plushenko, but that was true of 75% of the Men's field,. Like Lambiel, who was glacial, Plushenko had better IN and PE, just not as good as his marks would imply, because his impact requires speed and power, which he had little of, and not that the skater from North Korea's should have been higher. Three to six more months, and I'm certain he would have.
If the country initials had been reversed, Plushenko would have been skating before the ice cut.
bardtoob
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 14,711
I wonder if Irina feels like Russia's Nancy Kerrigan?
Tinami Amori
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 20,153
How could she? her knees were never whacked...
bardtoob
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 14,711
But they both have Bronze and Silver, and we know how they feel about it.
Tinami Amori
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 20,153
Very differently in more ways than one, as far as i can tell from their post-events comments..
You claim that her free skate at SLC "was one of her worst" but you don't even remember if she had a step-out or not...somehow your opinion doesn't sound very concinving to me
Whether or not she had a step out (or sloppy landing--I think I said one or the other; you be the judge https://youtu.be/tHfM9iptYig?t=113), it is still one of her worst (though not as bad as Torino). Those wild arms and face-palming at the end were reason enough to rank it near the bottom!
stlcomet
Member
- Messages
- 31
But her vanilla latte fantasy world sure was
Tinami Amori
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 20,153
Irina should have received 6.0 just for acting the part...
....you supposed to face-plam, grab hair and head, and other drama in "La Tosca"....
- https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.tow...0b2-bbee-e9d7ad825feb/5a00b44210d51.image.jpg
- https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/rrJt...i-tosca-synopsis-583a003c5f9b58d5b1675659.jpg
- https://d2ae1n566nbglo.cloudfront.n...olclough-1-c-Richard-Hubert-Smith-800x600.jpg
- https://www.kusc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sondra-Radvanovsky-Tosca-1600x1067.jpg
stlcomet
Member
- Messages
- 31
Both are Bitter Betty's. But at least Irina owns it like a boss. Nancy on the other hand.......
https://youtu.be/O4bJ8DHFVrM
2000 NHK, 2001 GPF...
Yeah, your assessment sounds very reasonable and realistic
The video does not lie.
MacMadame
Getting radicalized on YouTube
- Messages
- 65,848
Video lies all the time.
stlcomet
Member
- Messages
- 31
Yeah, your assessment sounds very reasonable and realistic
What I think he's trying to sarcastically say is; if you couldn't be bothered to literally scroll up 9 comments to confirm the wording of your own quote....twice....you've lost credibility on the matter by default, so why should he. You proved his point for him.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,309
To be fair to giselle23, at the time watching it live, I thought it was a mistake because I didn't remember seeing Irina do that combo before and it looked super hesitant like she was improvising it on the spot. I think a lot of it had to do with how unusual that combo was at the time. Obviously, with IJS and seeing how normal 3 jump combos are now with a Euler to flip entrance, it doesn't look weird anymore.
Opinions are opinions. This isn’t a court case over which of Irina’s program are among her worst.
stlcomet
Member
- Messages
- 31
Lol...i know right. Totally Agree. Poor Irina, can't catch a break in her own damn thread
lala
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,812
sure..
Plushenko is a bad skater "lack of artistry" "Evan won because of his artistic performance", "the quad is not everything"... And 8 years later in the American media "the Figure Skater Who Brought Athleticism to Artistry" -Nathan Chen.....My problem is not Nathan , just the American media..Lysacek's IN and PE was higher than Takahashi's in SP. Who was overscored? When he would have been skating if he receive the real marks???
BTW Plushenko's "army of defender" made a big protest everywhere and it had a great upshot. In JUne 2010 the ISU has changed the rules. And started the quad revolution. And of the story.
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
- Messages
- 40,381
I thought Takahashi should have taken the SP easily. But, sadly, the center of his FS lost energy and momentum and sagged. It was sad to watch, but that would have lost him the gold, even if he had led after the short
lala
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,812
I thought Takahashi should have taken the SP easily. But, sadly, the center of his FS lost energy and momentum and sagged. It was sad to watch, but that would have lost him the gold, even if he had led after the short
I liked Daisuke!
bardtoob
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 14,711
"Evan won because of his artistic performance", "the quad is not everything"...
... propaganda, comrade
Let's face it, in 2010 Plushy was capable of a wonderful artistic program, but doing just 1 quad was too much for his spine to recover from in less than 3 minutes, thus high quality basic skating and posing.
Plushy also had one good skate left in him for 2014, but 20 years of doing quads is probably not best for anybody, especially post spine surgery.
Cautiously putting my toe into this thread.
The ladies short in SLC was all sorts of effed up.
Slutskaya definitely had a case for being 1st after the short, which would've given her the gold if the free skate placements were the same. She had the biggest jumps (Granny Sebestyen was arguably better, and spaced hers out more). The combination spin was probably the costliest mistake, and judges were looking for places to take deductions. Had Slutskaya skated the way she did at Worlds a month later, I have no doubt she would've been in first -- everything was just a bit cleaner, stretched out, and the combo spin much better.
Kwan's flip had quality errors, and her jumps were a bit smaller. Spins were simpler, too (Cohen had the best spins of the evening).
Hughes had the egregious flutz in her combo and the spiral sequence, while beautiful, didn't come close to the required pattern. Some judges may have thought she two-footed the flip.
One could've argued Granny (huge jumps, decent spins), Butyrskaya (clean but tentative jumps, ok spins, reputation), and Suguri (big jumps, nice spins, good speed) over Hughes.
As for Worlds, in 1996 she was nowhere near Kwan or Chen artistically (although the jumps that season -- particularly Europeans -- were like butter). She was way behind in the SP in 1997 and 1998. 1999 she didn't attend (although her Autumn Leaves SP program is glorious). 2000 she messed up the 3S and had no 3+3. 2001 she had the content but not the cleanliness. 2004 she was ill, and so forth and so forth.
I actually adore Irina (loved all of her short programs since 1998) and think she deserves a lot of respect for her longevity and competitiveness (she was one of those who really took advantage of IJS right from the start).
The ladies short in SLC was all sorts of effed up.
Slutskaya definitely had a case for being 1st after the short, which would've given her the gold if the free skate placements were the same. She had the biggest jumps (Granny Sebestyen was arguably better, and spaced hers out more). The combination spin was probably the costliest mistake, and judges were looking for places to take deductions. Had Slutskaya skated the way she did at Worlds a month later, I have no doubt she would've been in first -- everything was just a bit cleaner, stretched out, and the combo spin much better.
Kwan's flip had quality errors, and her jumps were a bit smaller. Spins were simpler, too (Cohen had the best spins of the evening).
Hughes had the egregious flutz in her combo and the spiral sequence, while beautiful, didn't come close to the required pattern. Some judges may have thought she two-footed the flip.
One could've argued Granny (huge jumps, decent spins), Butyrskaya (clean but tentative jumps, ok spins, reputation), and Suguri (big jumps, nice spins, good speed) over Hughes.
As for Worlds, in 1996 she was nowhere near Kwan or Chen artistically (although the jumps that season -- particularly Europeans -- were like butter). She was way behind in the SP in 1997 and 1998. 1999 she didn't attend (although her Autumn Leaves SP program is glorious). 2000 she messed up the 3S and had no 3+3. 2001 she had the content but not the cleanliness. 2004 she was ill, and so forth and so forth.
I actually adore Irina (loved all of her short programs since 1998) and think she deserves a lot of respect for her longevity and competitiveness (she was one of those who really took advantage of IJS right from the start).
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,309
Looking back, I think Kwan's conditioning was probably the worst it had been all Olympic cycle. She seemed to lose a lot of weight and thus strength that season. I think she was really stressed out. Her later half 2000-2001 and even entire 2002-2003 season self would have made her a stronger competitor that season IMO. That said, her spins for the most part looked great at the Olympics. They seemed faster and had a lot of rotation in the SP, and after a decade of IJS, I really miss the deathdrop to back sit spin with that great back position. I think Kwan's technical merit marks for the most part were right and the ones that were high were because of 6.0 and her skate order and the judges being boxed in with the marks they already gave the other big contenders who had already skated, which is how 6.0 was supposed to work apparently since it was all about ordinal placements. I'd be probably be like the Italian judge and give her 5.5/5.9 but still first place.
Last edited:
I was a big Slutskaya fan back in the day, but her skating does not hold up well AT ALL with IJS eyes and maybe more educated eyes. As an example, I’d have no problem placing her 4th in the free skate at 2000 Worlds with her lack of spins, choreography, and telegraphing of all jumps.
However, even with the spin mistake in SLC, I thought she easily deserved 1st in the short program. Many people didn’t like that vehicle for her, but I actually preferred it and think her 2000 interpretive free skate to Adagio pour piano (same style) is the best program she’s ever done.
However, even with the spin mistake in SLC, I thought she easily deserved 1st in the short program. Many people didn’t like that vehicle for her, but I actually preferred it and think her 2000 interpretive free skate to Adagio pour piano (same style) is the best program she’s ever done.
