Coughlin's family speaks, shares perspective on SafeSport investigation

[Tinami Amori]

Every single bit of bad judgement by young people in the context of consensual relationships should not rise to the level of destroying someone's career, livelihood and reputation a decade and a half later. Can questions be asked and amends be made? Absolutely. Should that person need to be accountable particularly if working with young people? Yes. But as has been said by others, this wasn't Larry Nasser.

 

[UGG]

I’m just not buying the jealous rival angle his sister has put out, per the article. Like rival of what? US pairs are just a non factor in skating other than winning a national title. He is not a super star. He is a 30-ish year old dude who internationally accomplished not much and never made the Olympics and is a coach. What would be the motive? Are there even rivals in US pairs? Someone is so mad he won 4CC’s in like 2011 so they develop a plan to sabatoge him? Does he have a Tonya/Nancy Jonny/Evan etc... rival that could still be bitter? I doubt it

 

[Wyliefan]

That struck me too, @UGG. I understand grasping for a motive when you're grieving, but that one just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[hanca]

I am not sure if rival would be the right term, but if he worked as a coach, it is pretty easy to make someone angry. E.g. a few students change coaches (leave coach A and start taking lessons with John), coach A get p***ed off that John is taking away his/her business, make an allegation... I mean being concerned about inappropriate relationships fifteen years late is a bit questionable. What exactly was the motivation?

 

[overedge]

@UGG I'm not convinced of the jealous rival story either. But as you say US pair skaters don't usually have a high profile after they retire. So gigs that Coughlin had, like skating equipment representative and broadcaster, (both of which I assume are paid gigs) might look pretty good to someone else who isn't getting that kind of work.

 

[overedge]

@hanca don't misrepresent what I said. I was responding to a post about what information was in the article that could identify the accusers - not about whether the alleged accusers had a valid reason to complain. If you have an issue with the validity of that information, you can discuss that without quoting my post.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The third party was so concerned about the inappropriate relationship that he/she waited for fifteen years to report it? Yes, I can see how much the person was concerned.

It could be a matter of SafeSport having begun in it's current iteration in 2017. It could be that, as a result of MeToo and the Nassar case, victims are taken more seriously. It could be that mandatory reporters are taking their obligations more seriously. It could be that behavior that was once considered business-as-usual could now be considered grooming. It could be that the reporting of the second and third cases was opportunistic, but factual, while the first cases could have been up to interpretation.

 

[yfbg722]

TSL's latest related post: Natalie Vlandis Lindemann Facebook Post

I wasn't following US pairs at the time this woman was competing so she's not familiar to me.

 

[Oreo]

It’s just not John’s family who are devasted by the allegations they believe to be motivated by someone other than the “alleged” victims. Ask some of the skaters and the wider skating community who attended and grieved at his memorial service. They’re just as upset. Talking to someone who was there, people knew all about the Romeo and Juliet relationship. There aren’t many secrets in the skating world.

 

[my little pony]

I dont assume that his family is telling the truth or knows the truth. maybe they are. but the article presents their statements as if they are facts and there's nothing provided to support them.

 

[barbk]

What is with all the Romeo and Juliet references? Was John on team Montague and his Juliets on team Capulet? AFAIK, the doomed lovers from R&J were both young.

 

[clairecloutier]

TSL's latest related post: Natalie Vlandis Lindemann Facebook Post

I wasn't following US pairs at the time this woman was competing so she's not familiar to me.

That is a very powerful post from Natalie Vlandis. I have no doubt, none at all, that she's correct in everything she says, particularly regarding the general power imbalance between girls and boys in figure skating. In the end, it hurts everyone.

 

[Teamgracie]

Since we don’t know the truth and we don’t know what the family knows, I can’t fault them for speaking out in defense of their son, brother. I sure would if I knew or felt I knew my family member was innocent. It’s perfectly understandable. And it would be understandable if the accusers spoke out with their truth. I wish we could know the facts. This whole thing is so sad all the way around.

 

[Lanie]

I am not sure if rival would be the right term, but if he worked as a coach, it is pretty easy to make someone angry. E.g. a few students change coaches (leave coach A and start taking lessons with John), coach A get p***ed off that John is taking away his/her business, make an allegation... I mean being concerned about inappropriate relationships fifteen years late is a bit questionable. What exactly was the motivation?

There's a lot of pettiness and jealousy in this sport. I've seen it at my rink even with just little kids skating, coaches refusing to speak to their former students who are just children and even being rude, nasty, mouthy to them--just kids! So it wouldn't totally surprise me though I don't really buy some jealous rival situation. I mean, it's possible. The behavior is insane and that's just at my rink that isn't really a hotbed of, er, talent.

It does corroborate what I have heard regarding the allegations, that they are from a very long time ago.

We have to address that there is a massive power imbalance in pairs and dance as boys are so few and far between. I see this with my son. He's fawned over because he is one of maybe five boys who figure skate at our rink, and he's only six. It is something we've sort of touched on with him as he does want to get into pairs or dance (oddly something John and I spoke of, he always asked how Mini Lanie's skating was going), but he knows even at his age to always treat everyone with respect, and everyone has boundaries. You have to start young.

 

[yfbg722]

That is a very powerful post from Natalie Vlandis. I have no doubt, none at all, that she's correct in everything she says, particularly regarding the general power imbalance between girls and boys in figure skating. In the end, it hurts everyone.

There are good coaches out there who teach the boys how to behave respectfully and impose codes of conduct and discipline but there are also coaches who allow them to get away with far too much because they are seen as such a valuable commodity. This is actually something that should probably be looked at in more depth.

 

[mackiecat]

TSL's latest related post: Natalie Vlandis Lindemann Facebook Post

I wasn't following US pairs at the time this woman was competing so she's not familiar to me.

She first skated with Jered Guzman and was coached by his mother, then with Jim Peterson

 

[mackiecat]

I am a bit confused. I thought that one of the accusers were to be competing at Nationals this year? Since John was in his thirties, how old was this skater when this happened years ago?

 

[Lanie]

There are good coaches out there who teach the boys how to behave respectfully and impose codes of conduct and discipline but there are also coaches who allow them to get away with far too much because they are seen as such a valuable commodity. This is actually something that should probably be looked at in more depth.

THIS.

And the parents need to be involved here too but so often they enjoy being seen as needed, valued, that their child is fought over by girls who want to skate with him. And a lot of the parents of the girls will do anything to snatch that boy to skate with their daughter. I've seen it. It's nuts.

 

[clairecloutier]

We have to address that there is a massive power imbalance in pairs and dance as boys are so few and far between. I see this with my son. He's fawned over because he is one of maybe five boys who figure skate at our rink, and he's only six.

This is getting a bit off topic I guess ... but I saw something similar at my rink. When my daughter was doing group lessons at her club, there was just one boy taking lessons with the whole rinkful of girls. He was not more talented than most of the girls. But his family was approached by a fairly senior-level coach, who urged them to start him in private lessons and offered advice, etc. This didn't happen for any of the girls (at least that I was aware of!).

 

[Vagabond]

What is with all the Romeo and Juliet references? Was John on team Montague and his Juliets on team Capulet? AFAIK, the doomed lovers from R&J were both young.

It's a lack of imagination. Like 27-year-olds doing a Romeo and Juliet Free Dance.

 

[kwanfan1818]

What is with all the Romeo and Juliet references? Was John on team Montague and his Juliets on team Capulet? AFAIK, the doomed lovers from R&J were both young.

There were a number of laws created to protect teenagers who had been in legal relationships as teenagers under the age of majority, but where, when one partner turned 18, that partner was committing statutory rape according to the legal code. They are referred to as "Romeo and Juliet" laws, presumably because they were young and in love, and not because of their ages or the ages of the actors who play them.

Generally, these laws either allow for relationships within a certain age range or they reduce the charges and penalties within those age ranges.

For example, in Colorado, it is legal for a 17-year-old minor to have sex with someone who is up to 10 years older. (After he or she turns 18, there aren't age-related restrictions to have sex with someone older, no matter how old.). According to the article, the allegation was that the first relationship reported was legal, because she was in her late teens, but the reporting party felt he had groomed her.

 

[Aerobicidal]

I don't know if all this talk of "Romeo and Juliet" is supposed to romanticize or normalize some sort of age-imbalanced and/or intergenerational relationships, but IMO the relationship between Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is just as messed up as the treatment of gender and power in that play.

Rereading the initial article eight hours after I first did, I'm even more convinced that it's completely irresponsible. (And, if anyone responds to this saying that Dave Lease and/or Christine Brennan are also irresponsible, let me say thank you in advance for your non-responsive fallacy.) Here are a few different ways it tries to discredit any perspectives that don't conform with its message:

There was stifled anger beneath the grief, an overwhelming sense that this young man’s death was wrong.

Here we have an attempt to generate pathos (itself manipulative) in which the word "sense" gives a false impression of subjectivity when it's clear from the rest of the article that the author is trying to place objective/True blame on a variety of sources.

Driven into despair, feeling unable to defend himself, the 6-foot-2 skater — known for his big body and big, warm personality — was so knocked from his moorings . . .

His "big body" and "warm personality" are irrelevant to the facts at hand--another attempt to manipulate via pathos. Look at the word choices here: "driven into despair," "knocked from his moorings." Note that there is no named actor who did that driving and knocking there, again couching blame on some silent/nameless force.

“SafeSport as it operates now is clearly unconstitutional,” [skater and coach Stephen] Chasman wrote.

This is followed up by another quote about how there should be congressional hearings and a fact that a U.S. Senator from Kansas is the chair of a counsel that has been "looking into the treatment of amateur athletes and reporting of sexual misconduct."

Why is SafeSport clearly unconstitutional? Why should there be hearings? This sections of the article says absolutely nothing to answer those questions, just that a report from the Senator's committee is coming soon. That is, at best, terrible journalism, especially when the article is peppered with Facebook posts by people who obviously have a personal stake if not agenda in this case.

Family and friends said Coughlin categorically denied that any of the relationships SafeSport was investigating involved sexual misconduct. Each, they said, was a “peer-to-peer” relationship from his earlier skating days, none from when he was a coach.

The assertion here that a "peer-to-peer" relationship is mutually exclusive with sexual misconduct is both factually and legally inaccurate. Again, at best, this is terrible journalism, but I would suggest it's more invidious than just that.

[Chasman's] “reform petition” urges SafeSport to adopt “the concept of timely, civil procedure” before issuing suspensions, “the acknowledgement (sic) of statute of limitations … (and making clear) the distinction between felony and misdemeanor of charges.”

Okay, at least here we get an argument about what SafeSport is doing wrong, except it's from a Change.org petition written by someone from the skating community who was friends with Coughlin. Does he have any legal knowledge? Did he work with anyone who did? If not, I don't know how much validity to give the article's entire vilification of SafeSport. Thanks to the reporter for using (sic), though.

I could go on here, but the article just continues to use highly manipulative language and rhetoric to generate pathos, trying to hide the fact that there is a situation with multiple viewpoints and angles rather than one perspective that is obviously correct. The critiques of SafeSport may get slightly more cogent (and SafeSport certainly deserves to be criticized), but overall this is a manipulative opinion piece masquerading as news/news feature that does a disservice to everyone involved with the case.

 

[Frau Muller]

TSL's latest related post: Natalie Vlandis Lindemann Facebook Post

I wasn't following US pairs at the time this woman was competing so she's not familiar to me.

Vlandis was now-famous-coach Jim Peterson’s last & most successful Sr-level partner. Jim, as we all know, was the coach of 2010 US sr pair champs & Olympians Caydee Denney & Jeremy Barrett...the Caydee who later moved to Colorado (Delilah S as coach) and skated with the late John Coughlin after he broke up his successful partnership with Caitlyn Yankowskas (2011 US champs). Denney/Coughlin were the 2012 US Pairs champs. US Pairs skating is indeed a small world...just in the span of 3 years...3 fascinating “switcheroo” sets of Sr Pairs champs.

 

[Prancer]

Please do not post ANY information that even hints at the identity of an alleged victim.

 

[Scrufflet]

That is a very powerful post from Natalie Vlandis. I have no doubt, none at all, that she's correct in everything she says, particularly regarding the general power imbalance between girls and boys in figure skating. In the end, it hurts everyone.

I agree. I think this post is particularly important because it is very specific in what can and should be done.

 

[Lanie]

This is getting a bit off topic I guess ... but I saw something similar at my rink. When my daughter was doing group lessons at her club, there was just one boy taking lessons with the whole rinkful of girls. He was not more talented than most of the girls. But his family was approached by a fairly senior-level coach, who urged them to start him in private lessons and offered advice, etc. This didn't happen for any of the girls (at least that I was aware of!).

Yup, I've been approached. He's six. I'm not paying for private lessons, that's crazy.

But it goes to show there's a lot of insidious stuff. It has to start with the parents, and the coaches. These boys I think may have a wrong idea they have an intrinsic, hm, higher value considering they are a hot commodity. That's wrong to instill in your child. Then they grow up feeling entitled. So many girls, but not many boys and of course we can go into why boys are encouraged to stay away from figure skating (my six year old has been bullied because of skating, isn't that ridiculous?), but that's a conversation for another time, too.

 

[UGG]

Romeo and Juliette were the same age right? So..not seeing the analogy. Their parents didn’t like each other

There are 3 people making complaints. Let’s just say, for the sake of the “”what if” scenario everyone is clinging to... all relationships were 16/17 year olds having sexual relationships with John when he was over 18...No one thinks it’s messed up he is repeditly banging multiple girls who are in high school? To me it’s like mice...if 3 come out, there are probably 30 who have not.

 

[insideedgeua]

I’m just not buying the jealous rival angle his sister has put out, per the article. Like rival of what? US pairs are just a non factor in skating other than winning a national title. He is not a super star. He is a 30-ish year old dude who internationally accomplished not much and never made the Olympics and is a coach. What would be the motive? Are there even rivals in US pairs? Someone is so mad he won 4CC’s in like 2011 so they develop a plan to sabatoge him? Does he have a Tonya/Nancy Jonny/Evan etc... rival that could still be bitter? I doubt it

ADMIN EDIT TO REMOVE POTENTIALLY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION - FIRST WARNING

Yes, the new article it totally one sided, because it’s the side you hadn’t yet heard yet.

John’s family and friends truly believed that if he followed the instructions he was given and stayed quiet, the truth would come out. They put their faith in Safe Sport.

All they want now is for Safe Sport to complete the investigation as it is firmly believed that this will clear John’s name. To those of you that didn’t know John, but have some doubts, then you should also be calling for the investigation to continue.

Then John’s family and friends would like an investigation into how Safe Sport handles complaints. This is not because of any ill feeling towards anyone, they don’t want anyone to feel like they can’t speak and make a complaint. They just want an investigation into how these systems could be improved to support everyone.

 

[insideedgeua]

This is getting a bit off topic I guess ... but I saw something similar at my rink. When my daughter was doing group lessons at her club, there was just one boy taking lessons with the whole rinkful of girls. He was not more talented than most of the girls. But his family was approached by a fairly senior-level coach, who urged them to start him in private lessons and offered advice, etc. This didn't happen for any of the girls (at least that I was aware of!).

Boys are approached more quickly simply became there are so few of them. They’re a commodity to be used for pair and dance.

With girls, mainly because there are so many more of them, some coaches would prefer to sit back until they spot emerging talent or a special spring in their jumps etc.

Edited to add: Sorry, I should have been clearer. Boys are treated as a commodity by some coaches, but I mean that only in so far as they can be useful if they grow to be the right shape and disposition for pair or dance.

This does not mean that coaches treat them as a commodity on a daily basis. They have certainly not been fawned over or put on a pedestal. I’ve only ever had involvement with coaches who truly had their skater’s best interests at heart. There are thousands and thousands of great coaches out there.

As a skater myself and then with children skating, the coaches we have used have become part of the family. Ive never felt that on a personal basis a coach has treated my child like a commodity, despite having a boy involved with the sport.

 

[insideedgeua]

I am a bit confused. I thought that one of the accusers were to be competing at Nationals this year? Since John was in his thirties, how old was this skater when this happened years ago?

This was incorrect.