Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

[Viscaro]

This is not a good example for me because I hate the song... So if anything, it means that figure skaters should NEVER listen to fans suggestions

And we should not send them some. It ends badly !

Plus I do not wanna get mad at skaters because they did not choose some music I send them (I have a very high opinion of my music tastes).

(I'm kidding I would not get mad at something so stupid. Maybe I'll send Madison something.)

 

[RoseRed]

This is not a good example for me because I hate the song... So if anything, it means that figure skaters should NEVER listen to fans suggestions

And we should not send them some. It ends badly !

Plus I do not wanna get mad at skaters because they did not choose some music I send them (I have a very high opinion of my music tastes).

(I'm kidding I would not get mad at something so stupid. Maybe I'll send Madison something.)

When I sent Madison a few ideas, she wrote back to say thank you. Actually Matteo Rizzo did the same thing when he asked for suggestions on Instagram. I assume they were doing that for everyone, but I thought it was really nice.

 

[annie_mg]

They already skated to the W.E. soundtrack by Abel Korzeniowski in their SD 2015/2016. It´s one of my all-time favourite programs in FS in general ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVOYLDQUGX4

OMG I'm spellbound! I don't think I've watched this before; if I had I would have re-watched it a thousand times. I've always been a sucker for well skated waltzes. One of my absolute favourite programmes ever is Anissina/Peizerat's 1999 worlds waltz OD...Thank you so much for sharing that

Anyway, back to the topic, this programme shows how well 'grand' music can work for them.

 

[Anyasnake]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhuWB0RljNq/?taken-by=rudy_jarmuszczak_charotte Twizzling to the holidays...

 

[cocotaffy]

OMG I'm spellbound! I don't think I've watched this before; if I had I would have re-watched it a thousand times. I've always been a sucker for well skated waltzes. One of my absolute favourite programmes ever is Anissina/Peizerat's 1999 worlds waltz OD...Thank you so much for sharing that

Anyway, back to the topic, this programme shows how well 'grand' music can work for them.

My favorite SD of them, it's a whirlwind and I would love them to do another program finishing on a bang like this one. All their FD have ended on a calm note and don't get me wrong, it was done in a spellbinding way but I would love for them to explore another musical editing. Instead of slow fast slow, I'd like a crescendo FD all the way till the end or a fast slow fast like their Woodkid. I'm hoping in 2022 for the Olympics it will be the Waltz again because it suits them so well.
A very pretty photo for their Tour Farewell illustrating their lovely partnership and on-ice personal connection.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhuWB0RljNq/?taken-by=rudy_jarmuszczak_charotte Twizzling to the holidays...

I didn't know they were demonstrating elements. It's a nice way to get the public interested. They must be so relieved to finally be on vacation.

 

[Twilight1]

Vacation time is the best time. They can reset and refresh and listen to my music (and others hehe) suggestions for next season.

 

[cocotaffy]

Small article in a French newspaper about P/C and Morgan/Cipres giving lessons before their last gala in Boulogne. Not much said but how those kids from the club are starstruck and feel so lucky to skate with them.
On the first photo, Gaby looks so happy in the middle of the kids. Apparently she had a blast playing games with them saying they don't have time to teach them much but share a bit of their time, trying to give them the motivation to follow in their footsteps, showing them it's not unreachable to get where they are.

 

[RoseRed]

My favorite SD of them, it's a whirlwind and I would love them to do another program finishing on a bang like this one. All their FD have ended on a calm note and don't get me wrong, it was done in a spellbinding way but I would love for them to explore another musical editing. Instead of slow fast slow, I'd like a crescendo FD all the way till the end or a fast slow fast like their Woodkid. I'm hoping in 2022 for the Olympics it will be the Waltz again because it suits them so well.
A very pretty photo for their Tour Farewell illustrating their lovely partnership and on-ice personal connection.


I didn't know they were demonstrating elements. It's a nice way to get the public interested. They must be so relieved to finally be on vacation.

Let's see, since the SD started we've had:
2010-11: Golden Waltz with Waltz, Foxtrot, Quickstep, or Tango
2011-12: Rhumba with Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Mambo, or Merengue
2012-13: Yankee Polka with Polka, March, Waltz
2013-14: Finnstep with Quickstep or Quickstep + one or two of: Foxtrot, Charleston, Swing
2014-15: Paso Doble with Spanish dance rhythms: Jota, Fandango, Flamenco, Paso Doble, Bolero, Sevillanas
2015-16: Ravensburger Waltz with Waltz + one of Foxtrot, March, Polka
2016-17: Midnight Blues with Blues + either or both: Swing, Hip Hop
2017-18: Rhumba with Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Mambo, Meringue, Salsa, Bachata
2018-19: Tango Romantica
2019-20: Musical/Operetta/Broadway with Quickstep/Foxtrot/Polka/Blues/March

So waltz seems like a pretty good bet for either 2020-21 or 2021-22. Maybe Golden Waltz or even one from compulsories that we haven't used yet like Westminster Waltz or Austrian Waltz.

Blues might also be a possibility, or Paso Doble.

 

[cholla]

Another of Olivier Brajon's gorgeous pixes and someone's having fun

I love black & white pictures.

 

[alain06fr]

I should think P/C’s 2016/17 season was more affected by their need to harden as competitors and get all their levels consistently than anything else because V/M’s presence meant they could no longer get away with the odd twizzle mishap here and there as they had in the previous two years, which is exactly what their coaching team managed to work with them towards for 2018, but whatever, I wasn’t there behind the scenes...

I’m very curious to see where they go with their tango and whether they’ll do a sharp staccato ballroom Tango or a looser interpretation based on the Argentine social dances. The paso is probably my favourite SD of theirs so far.

I agree on one thing: You were not behind the scene, that's for sure.
And I disagree with almost all the rest. Let me elaborate a bit...

Since they started ice dance together, Gaby and Guillaume have always been pushed to compete in higher categories with more experienced skaters, always... hence V/M's comeback was certainly not a new situation.

Regarding 2016/17...
First, G&G decided to challenge themselves with a complex FD which took so much time to be choreographed. The very first finalized version of their FD was performed at ... Europeans !
Second, their SD was *never* finalized and the steps were constantly modified during the whole season, until the Worlds in Helsinki! This was clearly a no-go for me and an unacceptable situation. You hardly have a chance to deliver a clean program which is permanently being modified! Chris Dean was not asked to choreograph their OG SD by coincidence. It was related to what happened with the 2016/17 SD.
Third, dirty games started at the very beginning of the season, at NHK SD to be more precise but continued during the whole season until the World championships in Helsinki which were definitely a shame for ice dance's credibility as a sport.

“Helsinki" is now known as a "famous" case in "authorized circles". After the French fed officially complained, the ISU had to react and that's what they did... Well, I think they had no choice... Once again, clarification was absolutely mandatory for the credibility of ice dance...

The only issue is that ISU results officially announced and confirmed by an award ceremony are final, meaning they can't be changed whatever happens or is proved afterwards...

 

[alain06fr]

So @alain06fr and @Icetigger and probably others think it was a conflict of interest for MFD and PL to coach both teams.

But what were they to do?

They had long mentored V&M, and had choreographed their show numbers. When V&M asked PL and MFD to be their coaches if they decided to comeback PL said yes thinking that the possibility was remote. This happened long before RH and P&C moved to Gadbois.

So when V&M did decide to come back were PL and MFD then to go back on their word? Or were they to ask P&C to find other coaches?

Also do people also think RH was in a conflict of interest situation? And if not why not? Also should he have had some responsibility in making sure the costume malfunction didn't happen?

A nice big long quote from PL about how it was for them when they realized they had both teams:

http://fs-gossips.com/patrice-lauzon-great-programs-are-never-born-easily/

The question is not "Was there any conflict of interest? ". We know the answer! I would even say it's just a fact. MFD and PL were friends with V/M, all of them are Canadians and the Canadian fed brought a lot of money in the story. There was a conflict of interest as soon as V/M started in Gadbois.

The question is "Were the coaches able to handle this conflict of interest properly?"

As for this quote from PL, I think some people have a *very selective memory* when it comes to promises made to ice dance couples...

 

[alain06fr]

While coaches are involved in many aspects of their skaters preparation, dress design is generally not their area of expertise. Those who are ex-skaters are probably familiar with the fasteners and such that hold costumes together, but I doubt it's routine for them to check these things. I would think it is the dressmaker who is responsible to ensure that clasps and fasteners work as they are supposed to.

Humm... interesting comment imHo.
Coaches, even if they are former ice dancers, are not asked to sew a costume by themselves. Now, it's their job and their responsibility to :
(1) Define the role and goals for each team member, including the team member in charge of the costumes
(2) Ensure the team members complete their task perfectly and in time (in such case, do whatever was agreed to be done to perfectly fix Gaby's dress, especially when costumes issues were experienced twice in the past!)
(2) Control & verify the actions were successfully done, in such case checking the costumes are really fine.

Points (1) (2) & (3) are basic but top priority actions (team organization & roles and control) for managers and coaches.

 

[ewig_fliegende]

alain06fr, thank you very much for all your insights here and there and - which is the most important - your love to Gabriella and Guillaume as athletes and people!
Do you know whether there is a possibility of them changing the coaching staff or at least making some changes in the training process (new choreographers, etc.) or they don't even consider such an option?

 

[allezfred]

Third, dirty games started at the very beginning of the season, at NHK SD to be more precise but continued during the whole season until the World championships in Helsinki which were definitely a shame for ice dance's credibility as a sport.

What “dirty games” are you talking about?

 

[alain06fr]

alain06fr, thank you very much for all your insights here and there and - which is the most important - your love to Gabriella and Guillaume as athletes and people!

You're 100% right, in addition of being an outstanding and amazing ice dance couple, both Gaby and Guillaume are great people... definitely great people...

Do you know whether there is a possibility of them changing the coaching staff or at least making some changes in the training process (new choreographers, etc.) or they don't even consider such an option?

Gaby and Guillaume achieved fantastic performances the last 4 years. Their next goals are Europeans and Worlds and of course Bejing 2022. In any case, they want to be themselves hence promoting their own vision of ice dance, based on contemporary choreographies, softness, class and this very specific ability to pass on emotions to the public. I think they want to move on to new stuff while staying themselves. They wanted to keep on performing the Ed Sheeran SD during the French tour and not the Moonlight Sonata FD. That was a clear sign. Ed Sheeran is about fun and joy while Moonlight Sonata is more about drama. Moving forward, I think they want less drama and more fun in their music, choreographies and programs.

Gaby and Guillaume are exploring any possible options as the beginning of a new Olympic cycle is always the right time to do so. Gaby and Guillaume love challenges, they want/need their coaches to challenge them, they even challenge themselves (like they did in 2016/17) but they also challenge their coaches as well!

They are not interested in being part of a sort of ice dancers manufactory, confined in a kind of routine, without coaches pushing them to take up new challenges, which means the coaches have to spend time and be talented enough to invent these new challenges.

Gaby and Guillaume could leave Gadbois if they can find elsewhere a very strong skating coaching team, fitness coaching team, artistic coaching team, dance coaching team and mental coaching team or at least being confident there's a clear perspective to get that in a short term.
At this point, I guess Gaby and Guillaume would stay in Gadbois but with a different coaching team setup, meaning with new choreographers involved in their programs (like Chris Dean for the OG SD). Given many couples moved or are about to move to Gadbois, I think they may need to extend their skating training to other rinks than Gadbois.

 

[alain06fr]

What “dirty games” are you talking about?

You are for sure experienced enough to understand what "dirty games" means in the figure skating world

 

[barbarafan]

You are for sure experienced enough to understand what "dirty games" means in the figure skating world

Well I am definitely not experienced enough to understand what "dirty games" means so perhaps you could enlarge on this for my benefit as I don't have a clue and have a problem with anything that is not on the up and up.

 

[allezfred]

You are enough experienced to understand what "dirty games" means in the figure skating world

I genuinely do not know what you are referring to, so I guess I am not as experienced as you are.

 

[alain06fr]

I genuinely do not know what you are referring to, so I guess I am not as experienced as you are.

One thing you can try is to watch P/C SD of NHK2016 and try to find out which key points they may have missed... Have fun!
You can also see their reactions, especially Guillaume’s reaction, when the SD scores are announced. It’s telling a lot I must say.

As for Helsinki, it’s now such a famous case!

 

[ewig_fliegende]

alain06fr, thank you for your answer!

At this point, I guess Gaby and Guillaume would stay in Gadbois but with a different coaching team setup, meaning with new choreographers involved in their programs (like Chris Dean for the OG SD). Given many couples moved or are about to move to Gadbois, I think they may need to extend their skating training to other rinks than Gadbois.

That's great! Considering the growing number of dancing teams in Gadbois, I'm not sure the coaches will have enough time and creativity to bring masterpieces to the ice. IMHO, none of the 2017/18 programs by MFD was a masterpiece either and G&G were so much better than the choreography she gave to them in the free dance. I mean it was G&G's skills, grace and musicality that set them apart from the rest of the field in the free dance and not the choreography itself.

 

[IloveFS]

You're 100% right, in addition of being an outstanding and amazing ice dance couple, both Gaby and Guillaume are great people... definitely great people...



Gaby and Guillaume achieved fantastic performances the last 4 years. Their next goals are Europeans and Worlds and of course Bejing 2022. In any case, they want to be themselves hence promoting their own vision of ice dance, based on contemporary choreographies, softness, class and this very specific ability to pass on emotions to the public. I think they want to move on to new stuff while staying themselves. They wanted to keep on performing the Ed Sheeran SD during the French tour and not the Moonlight Sonata FD. That was a clear sign. Ed Sheeran is about fun and joy while Moonlight Sonata is more about drama. Moving forward, I think they want less drama and more fun in their music, choreographies and programs.

Gaby and Guillaume are exploring any possible options as the beginning of a new Olympic cycle is always the right time to do so. Gaby and Guillaume love challenges, they want/need their coaches to challenge them, they even challenge themselves (like they did in 2016/17) but they also challenge their coaches as well!

They are not interested in being part of a sort of ice dancers manufactory, confined in a kind of routine, without coaches pushing them to take up new challenges, which means the coaches have to spend time and be talented enough to invent these new challenges.

Gaby and Guillaume could leave Gadbois if they can find elsewhere a very strong skating coaching team, fitness coaching team, artistic coaching team, dance coaching team and mental coaching team or at least being confident there's a clear perspective to get that in a short term.
At this point, I guess Gaby and Guillaume would stay in Gadbois but with a different coaching team setup, meaning with new choreographers involved in their programs (like Chris Dean for the OG SD). Given many couples moved or are about to move to Gadbois, I think they may need to extend their skating training to other rinks than Gadbois.

If that's truly a signal as to what they want to do in the upcoming years (i.e. choosing their SD music over their FD music), I cannot wait to see this upcoming season!!! Although I will say that the Moonlight Sonata program was absolutely stunning!!!!

 

[allezfred]

One thing you can try is to watch P/C SD of NHK2016 and try to find out which key points they may have missed... Have fun!
You can also see their reactions, especially Guillaume’s reaction, when the SD scores are announced. It’s telling a lot I must say.

As for Helsinki, it’s now such a famous case!

For those who don't have the time or inclination to play a round of ice dance insider 20 questions, I assume you are accusing Andrzej Dostatni and presumably then at least two out of the remaining five technical panel officials for judging impropriety. Because of course we have never heard those accusations about Dostatni here on FSU before.

 

[barbarafan]

For those who don't have the time or inclination to play a round of ice dance insider 20 questions, I assume you are accusing Andrzej Dostatni and presumably then at least two out of the remaining five technical panel officials for judging impropriety. Because of course we have never heard those accusations about Dostatni here on FSU before.

I have no idea and if anything posted on FSU I missed it....pls advise

 

[ewig_fliegende]

Third, dirty games started at the very beginning of the season, at NHK SD to be more precise but continued during the whole season until the World championships in Helsinki which were definitely a shame for ice dance's credibility as a sport.
“Helsinki" is now known as a "famous" case in "authorized circles".

Agree. For me (and many figure skating fans I know) ice dance tournament in Helsinki-2017 will forever be a synonym of unfair and I would even say shameless judgement.

You're 100% right, in addition of being an outstanding and amazing ice dance couple, both Gaby and Guillaume are great people... definitely great people...

Well, I don't know Gaby and Guillaume personally but they always make an impression of being sincere, honest and decent people with great taste and highly-developed artistic vision I feel that the grace and beauty of emotions we see on the ice mainly comes from them and not from the vision and concepts imposed by their choreographer. And Gaby has such a sparkling personality!

 

[Emdee]

There must be a lot of other facilities in the world that provides what Gadbois does. Dont understand why they dont move since according to their good friend Alain it is not providing them with what they want.

The way I remember it they never really shone until MFD started to choreograph their programs and highlight their best features.

I know many of you dont agree with me but I find that there is a sameness in their FDs choreographed by MFD. Maybe another coach or choreographer will bring out something different. It is clear they have tremendous talent and may only need a conduit to present it.

Also, I think Alain should take it on himself to advise them of all the opportunities there are outside of Gadbois...what are friends for afterall.

 

[alain06fr]

For those who don't have the time or inclination to play a round of ice dance insider 20 questions, I assume you are accusing Andrzej Dostatni and presumably then at least two out of the remaining five technical panel officials for judging impropriety. Because of course we have never heard those accusations about Dostatni here on FSU before.

Don't forget Leana Caron, president of the Canadian fed acting as ... one of the scoring judges !

 

[alain06fr]

Dont understand why they dont move since it is not providing them with what they want.

Who said that? Not me, that's for sure.
I am not a spokeperson. I speak here freely only for myself.

And no, there are not a lot of facilities in the World comparable with Gadbois.

It's a very healthy process for G&G to think about all possible options for the next quad as they are at the beginning of the next Olympic cycle. Gadbois is a great place for ice dancers to train with many great coaches hence they may decide to stay there but the setup may need to be modified or adapted given the number of couples joining the school and given G&G's expectations for upcoming seasons which are obviously extremely high.

I know many of you dont agree with me but I find that there is a sameness in their FDs choreographed by MFD. Maybe another coach or choreographer will bring out something different. It is clear they have tremendous talent and may only need a conduit to present it.

Working with new choreographers (as long as we are taking about great choreographers!) is worth, to learn more about yourself and experience new stuff.

Also, I think Alain should take it on himself to advise them of all the opportunities there are outside of Gadbois...what are friends for afterall.

I am certainly not going to advise them anything as I respect them a lot. Gabriella and Guillaume know better than anyone else what they have to do.

 

[alain06fr]

Considering the growing number of dancing teams in Gadbois, I'm not sure the coaches will have enough time and creativity to bring masterpieces to the ice. IMHO, none of the 2017/18 programs by MFD was a masterpiece either and G&G were so much better than the choreography she gave to them in the free dance. I mean it was G&G's skills, grace and musicality that set them apart from the rest of the field in the free dance and not the choreography itself.

I agree 100% with your statement. I would simply highlight the key contribution of Jeffrey Cirio who actually gave so many great advices and ideas to fine tune and enhance significantly the FD choreography. As you pointed out, Gaby and Guillaume were able to sublime the whole thing of course.

 

[Anyasnake]

When we speak about Gadbois, they have a lot of teams but they have 2 ice rinks, do they have more ?

But I think (in total ignorance of course ) : staying in Montreal because the structure seems very good (friends, the city, coaches, etc) and what's needed. AND getting choreography from different people through the years. Seems like the most plausible situation to me. But then we'll see their evolution through the years.

 

[RoseRed]

When we speak about Gadbois, they have a lot of teams but they have 2 ice rinks, do they have more ?

But I think (in total ignorance of course ) : staying in Montreal because the structure seems very good (friends, the city, coaches, etc) and what's needed. AND getting choreography from different people through the years. Seems like the most plausible situation to me. But then we'll see their evolution through the years.

There are two rinks at the main Gadbois complex and they use both. I know they've said they don't have a problem with ice time because they have both rinks from 7:30 - 4:30/5:00 usually (IIRC).

I know there's another rink associated with the Gadbois centre a little ways away, but I don't know if they ever use it.