Interview with ISU Vice President Lakernik on how figure skating will change

[Meoima]

Some legit leaks I think: https://t.co/D4bYgcKPXI

and here https://twitter.com/tikudzi/status/979624974632865793
She translated a bit of this interview with Lakernik https://t.co/n00tLatEmP

 

[clairecloutier]

If anyone has time to do a proper translation of this article with Lakernik, it would certainly be worthwhile, considering his position and the significance of the upcoming changes.

There is so much I object to in his view on the sport, and characterization of it, but l will not comment further just now.

A minor point of interest is the cheap shade he can't resist throwing at Savchenko/Massot:

How do you assess the arbitrary program of the German pair, the Olympic champions Alena Savchenko and Bruno Masso?
- This program hides their disadvantages and emphasizes the pros. After all, the pair has developed recently, there are questions on the "roll-up" of partners, on the skating of Masso. After all, Alena, to be honest, skates better. But all this is hidden thanks to the program, and on the surface only elements that are executed for big pluses GOE [Grade of Execution, the evaluation for the execution of the element]. It can be seen how seriously serious elements impress the public and judges.

 

[Meoima]

If anyone has time to do a proper translation of this article with Lakernik, it would certainly be worthwhile, considering his position and the significance of the upcoming changes.

There is so much I object to in his view on the sport, and characterization of it, but l will not comment further just now.

A minor point of interest is the cheap shade he can't resist throwing at Savchenko/Massot:

And why did he not say that about other programs that made use of the system and hide their skaters' weakness...

 

[jlai]

Well, S/M had one of the most beautiful programs at worlds (and I am not normally a pairs fan). So if they hide their weaknesses enough to yield such a beautiful program, what does it matter?

 

[clairecloutier]

And why did he not say that about other programs that made use of the system and hide their skaters' weakness...

Yes. As if that is not the point of any program. As certain Russian coaches have even said ....

 

[libecha]

Well, having observed the FS of T/M, it’s possible they think the point is to highlight all weaknesses rather than conceal them.

 

[casken]

I actually hope the "only one of each type of quad per program" rule happens.

 

[jlai]

I actually hope the "only one of each type of quad per program" rule happens.

I agree. I think they should come up with rule that doesn't come across as benefiting or disadvantaging one skater. Going for quality, yes, and in return you can only do one quad per type of quad.

 

[alchemy void]

Interesting. A couple quick thoughts:

• I like +5 / -5. I wonder how the factoring will work? I still think jumps with falls still get too many points. I hope judges are conservative with the +5s and reserve that for truly elements; Daleman's 3toe3toe comes to mind. I'm not optimistic on the judges' execution of this, however.

they should understand that bad execution will be punished harsher than before, if before it was worth to go for difficult element even with getting -3 from bv and we often heard words "I fell but rotated" now if this is a case , almost half of bv will be reduced in case of fall

This does sound promising, again, in theory.

• I'm not crazy about "one type of quad per program" rule. It really seems like a drastic and unfair rule change to skaters who only do one type of quad. And I think the end result is going to be detrimental, we'll see lots of guys attempting new quads (and falling) instead of repeating their reliable quad.
• Also that tweet says bonus for jumps in the second half will be "reduced". I'm interested to see the implementation here.

 

[mag]

I still think jumps with falls still get too many points.

I still think jumps that receive < or << receive too many points. I would love to see a cumulative deduction similar to the fal deduction for under rotations. People talk about the “but I still rotated” crowd, what about the “but I stood up” crowd. I am so tired of Skaters putting jumps in they can stand up on but have no hope of getting full rotation on. Standing up on a half cheat jump can actually be easier than standing up on one that is at or just under a 1/4 cheat.

They need to develop a computer system to call rotation on jumps and then they need use rather than counting on the human eye.

 

[jlai]

I definitely think failed jumps in the second half shouldn't get bonuses

 

[BittyBug]

I definitely think failed jumps in the second half shouldn't get bonuses

And that might discourage so much back loading.

I really hate the shortening of the free skate. How does that enhance the sport?

 

[jlai]

I suspect it is supposed to save cost. Less ice time and all

 

[Interludes]

When they decide on new rule changes at the congress, are they immediately implemented next season or in the 2019-2020 season? Just wondering.

 

[Tahuu]

The intention of limiting repeated quad to one is for the sake of the sport to see all types of quads. Otherwise with seven jumping passes in the free, there will be no need to have all 5 types of quads. Ex.

Now 4Lz3T, 4Lz, 4F2T, 4F, 4S, 4T1Lo3S, 3A
If only one quad can be repeated 4Lz3T, 4Lz, 4Lo, 4F2T, 4S, 4T1Lo3S, 3A

When the ISU sets new rules, it should not be shortsighted to think how the rules could or could not benefit current skaters but looks into their future consequences.

 

[nimi]

When they decide on new rule changes at the congress, are they immediately implemented next season or in the 2019-2020 season? Just wondering.

When they made major changes after Vancouver (e.g. they got rid off the compulsory dances in jr/sr ice dance and eliminated the leveled spiral sequences for ladies and the 2nd step sequence for men in singles' programs and ruled that going forward, the "jump + half loop + jump" things would be counted as 3-jump combos and not as 2-jump sequences), the new rules were implemented in the 2010-11 season. So I expect that similarly, the forthcoming changes will come into effect already next season.

 

[Bellanca]

It’s simple, really, the ISU is at it again…

Changing the rules after every season is little more than a very thinly veiled attempt to direct future and desired results, to prevent any more heart palpitating surprises from occurring that they (and a quarter of fans) would not like. They’ll attempt, via rule changes, to accommodate and assist certain skaters who are deemed worthy or deserving of future (acceptable) success and titles a more accessible path to get there. Revised, new rules and sports management will help to weed out the skaters they would like to see take a powder, already… The judges are not the only ones who can send a message which is why I am underdog inclined and cheer, more often than not, for the upset.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I am exceedingly disappointed to see figures have not been reinstated.

-BB

 

[Tinami Amori]

And why did he not say that about other programs that made use of the system and hide their skaters' weakness...

I read some discussions about S/M strength and weaknesses, and in a nut-shell, it's pretty much about comparing (directly or indirectly) Bruno (as he is) to graceful and elegant Robin. It's not a dig at this team, but rather a discussion what choreographic moves can compensate for what Bruno "does not have" that Robin had. Because people do compare, given the fame/success of S/S as a team.

 

[BittyBug]

I suspect it is supposed to save cost. Less ice time and all

I guess I don't see how shaving a whopping 12 minutes or less from an event (30 seconds for each of 24 skaters for singles, less than that for pairs and dance) will reduce costs. It's not like the ice is rented by the minute for a competition, it is reserved for a block of time (more or less a week).

 

[Bellanca]

I am exceedingly disappointed to see figures have not been reinstated.

-BB

Imagine the drama! Do it, ISU! Do it!

 

[jlai]

I guess I don't see how shaving a whopping 12 minutes or less from an event (30 seconds for each of 24 skaters for singles, less than that for pairs and dance) will reduce costs. It's not like the ice is rented by the minute for a competition, it is reserved for a block of time (more or less a week).

I'm not saying it will save cost. I'm saying they think it will save cost. Big difference.

 

[BittyBug]

I'm not saying it will save cost. I'm saying they think it will save cost. Big difference.

I have a fairly dim view of the ISU but I'd like to give them enough credit to think they could quickly compute the potential cost savings and conclude that there aren't likely to be any. There has to be a different reason, like appealing to declining attention spans or something like that.

 

[jlai]

I have a fairly dim view of the ISU but I'd like to give them enough credit to think they could quickly compute the potential cost savings and conclude that there aren't likely to be any. There has to be a different reason, like appealing to declining attention spans or something like that.

It makes a long event at a championship. And sitting through 37 skaters with 4.5 minutes.

 

[BittyBug]

It makes a long event at a championship. And sitting through 37 skaters with 4.5 minutes.

That doesn't make sense. The events are held one at a time and the maximum number of competitors qualifying for the free skate is 24 (singles - pairs only get 20 and dance gets only 16). Cutting 30 seconds from each program therefore only reduces the length of the event by a maximum of 12 minutes (singles), 10 minutes (pairs) or 8 minutes (dance).

 

[jlai]

That doesn't make sense. The events are held one at a time and the maximum number of competitors qualifying for the free skate is 24. Cutting 30 seconds from each program therefore only reduces the length of the event by a maximum of 12 minutes.

I'm only expanding on the short attention span theme you had.

 

[BittyBug]

I'm only expanding on the short attention span theme you had.

Ok, but you said "37 skaters with 4.5 minutes." There are never 37 competitors for the free skate, which is the program they are discussing shortening.

 

[jlai]

Ok, but you said "37 skaters with 4.5 minutes." There are never 37 competitors for the free skate, which is the program they are discussing shortening.

I'm merely making idle conversations, not planning to start a debate. Merely tossing in possibilities here in between training sessions.

 

[BittyBug]

I'm merely making idle conversations, not planning to start a debate. Merely tossing in possibilities here in between training sessions.

Yes and I appreciate that, and to be clear I am reacting more to my frustration with trying to understand the ISU when this proposal leaves me and . I just can't make sense of it at the moment but maybe they will have a good explanation. We'll see.

 

[jlai]

Yes and I appreciate that, and to be clear I am reacting more to my frustration with trying to understand the ISU when this proposal leaves me and . I just can't make sense of it at the moment but maybe they will have a good explanation. We'll see.

There is also that argument that why men have to do a longer program than women (equal requirement for sex). I doubt that is the main reason, but it could be used as an argument by those wanting the change.