Papadakis/Cizeron #5 - We're In Love With The Shape Of You

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DreamsofBliss said:
I was able to download it and watch with clipconverter.cc
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It worked, thanks so much! I've used that site before so I don't know why I didn't think of it.

This was a good experience for them, to work with camera crew, and learn to perform to a different kind of audience.
 
dramagrrl said:
I don't follow skating fans on Twitter, so I don't know if V/M "fans" are writing essays, etc., but even if V/M's fanbase is huge and P/C's isn't on other forms of social media, I find that P/C fans are always trying to make their fanbase seem innocent and reasonable while complaining about the "insane" V/M fans and ignoring the fact that even if the insane P/C fans come in smaller numbers, they are still everywhere. Someone in this very thread linked to a pro-P/C Tumblr where the poster was doing exactly what you said above - writing actual essays about why P/C were robbed, V/M didn't deserve to win, etc. On every YouTube video of P/C or V/M, there are crazy P/C fans who rant about how awful V/M are and use insults such as calling Tessa fat, saying Scott skates "like a pimp", etc. And here at FSU, which is what I was talking about in the first place (not Twitter, not other forms of social media), P/C fans have invaded the V/M fan thread just as much as the other way around, especially since this season began.

As for "nobody is actually whining", well... that's your opinion. If the situation had been reversed and V/M fans were flooding a thread with posts that said they would have won if not for... (insert unlucky/potentially avoidable situation here), I'm fairly certain that fans from the P/C side would consider that whining. And that's not the only type of post since the Olympics that I have thought was whining from the other side, but again, YMMV.
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But I could litterally single out everyone of this people. A couple of Tumblr account. The 3 morons on YouTube with 12 account each writing nasty things. Of course since they started writing hateful things about P/C too, you could see they are trolls.
The "Tessa fat" stupidity is from 2011 or something, not something that was invented this year.
But again the comparaison is so pointless. And if you're not on twitter, I'd advise you not to go, ever. This is a nasty place and the hate is incredible.

I'm just saying that every fanbase has the right to defend itself or to question scoring and that's not called whining. It's called reading protocols and understanding. Of course people are going to be disappointed what did you expect ? All year people have questionned the judging, now that it's happening here I don't see a difference.
(It obviously does not targets skaters too...)
 
dramagrrl said:
Someone in this very thread linked to a pro-P/C Tumblr where the poster was doing exactly what you said above - writing actual essays about why P/C were robbed, V/M didn't deserve to win, etc.
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If you're talking about that message, I wonder why you haven't read the warning that came with it. I think everything was said already.

laviemn said:
Fair warning: That tumblr user is a P/C uber, the opposite of a V/M uber, and is salty about how the Olympics played out. If any of that bothers you, be an adult and don't click. If you choose to click anyway, be a decent person and complain about it somewhere other than this thread.
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Great skate by Gabriella and Guillaume tonight, so sharp, so playful, not going into the boards like we could have feared on such a small rink. It was also great to see Guillaume's face when Christopher Dean said he felt like a proud parent and that he thought they were turning skating into an art form. He looked so surprised and touched by the praise.
 
Anyasnake said:
I'm just saying that every fanbase has the right to defend itself or to question scoring and that's not called whining. It's called reading protocols and understanding. Of course people are going to be disappointed what did you expect ? All year people have questionned the judging, now that it's happening here I don't see a difference. (It obviously does not targets skaters too...)
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I actually agree with you that questioning the scoring is not always whining. I am not arguing this point and I totally understand that there are many legitimate, non-crazy-uber P/C fans who are disappointed in the result and try their best to understand the protocols and the judging.

However, again, there is some hypocrisy here (not from you; from many others). When V/M fans who are very knowledgeable about the sport have questioned the judging, both at the Olympics and previous events, they have been told to "Get over it because your team won", called conspiracy theorists, told they were whining, told that no matter what they said, P/C are better and the judges have "proven" this fact, etc. When V/M fans tried to question the judging in the Olympic SD, for example, at least a dozen P/C fans responded constantly with things like "[It is a FACT that] P/C would have won and deserved to win if not for the costume malfunction!", "Ben Agosto said [and therefore it must be a PROVEN FACT!] that V/M missed a choctaw and should've been marked down and weren't!" (while there are several ice dance experts with years of experience who have said otherwise), and other similar comments. Even when I have posted a considered, non-insane post like this, I have been told that I should not be "defensive", but then flipped right back over with comments about why P/C fans should be allowed to be defensive, question the judging, etc.

I'm just not sure why there seem to be double standards here (not on this thread in particular; on FSU in general), especially when this board is widely known to be pro-P/C, if anything.
 
Viscaro said:
Great skate by Gabriella and Guillaume tonight, so sharp, so playful, not going into the boards like we could have feared on such a small rink. It was also great to see Guillaume's face when Christopher Dean said he felt like a proud parent and that he thought they were turning skating into an art form. He looked so surprised and touched by the praise.
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Aw, I may have to download the entire episode after all. I think this program has really helped them improve as performers, and it's great to see that hold over into an exhibition skate. Hope they keep it as next season's EX though I'm always going to be nervous when I see that dress.
 
dramagrrl said:
I actually agree with you that questioning the scoring is not always whining. I am not arguing this point and I totally understand that there are many legitimate, non-crazy-uber P/C fans who are disappointed in the result and try their best to understand the protocols and the judging.

However, again, there is some hypocrisy here (not from you; from many others). When V/M fans who are very knowledgeable about the sport have questioned the judging, both at the Olympics and previous events, they have been told to "Get over it because your team won", called conspiracy theorists, told they were whining, told that no matter what they said, P/C are better and the judges have "proven" this fact, etc. When V/M fans tried to question the judging in the Olympic SD, for example, at least a dozen P/C fans responded constantly with things like "[It is a FACT that] P/C would have won and deserved to win if not for the costume malfunction!", "Ben Agosto said [and therefore it must be a PROVEN FACT!] that V/M missed a choctaw and should've been marked down and weren't!" (while there are several ice dance experts with years of experience who have said otherwise), and other similar comments. Even when I have posted a considered, non-insane post like this, I have been told that I should not be "defensive", but then flipped right back over with comments about why P/C fans should be allowed to be defensive, question the judging, etc.

I'm just not sure why there seem to be double standards here.
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We're going in circles with that discussion because we do not even have the same "double standards" anyway. I could litterally take the same arguments and switched the names.
I'm okay with everyone questionning everything, as long as there is respect anyway.
 
Viscaro said:
If you're talking about that message, I wonder why you haven't read the warning that came with it. I think everything was said already.
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I did read the warning. I wasn't pointing out the Tumblr to say that P/C fans here supported it; I was pointing it out because @Anya was saying the two fanbases weren't at all comparable and pointed out some things crazy V/M fans outside of FSU were doing as examples, and I was pointing out the Tumblr that was posted with the warning to show that similar P/C ubers existed who were doing the exact same things.

Anyasnake said:
We're going in circles with that discussion because we do not even have the same "double standards" anyway. I could litterally take the same arguments and switched the names.
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That's exactly what I was saying, actually (that you could take the same arguments and insert either P/C fans or V/M fans into the same sentences) - that both sides are equally culpable and have select fans who go beyond reasonable defending of their favourites. The only point I was trying to make that was different from what you were saying is that you said that the two fandoms aren't/should not be compared, while I was saying they are very comparable, but some/most P/C fans like to pretend otherwise.

I should also add that I would never defend the extreme/rude/crazy V/M fans who insult and discount P/C's abilities or try to attack them as people. There are many posters on the V/M thread here that I have publicly posted to say that I disagreed with the way they choose to express their fandom. There are thousands upon thousands of casual fans or every-four-years skating "fans" who know nothing about ice dancing or the scoring system who talk nonsense that I would never support. The extreme ubers make us all look bad on both sides.
 
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dramagrrl said:
I did read the warning. I wasn't pointing out the Tumblr to say that P/C fans here supported it; I was pointing it out because @Anya was saying the two fanbases weren't at all comparable and pointed out some things crazy V/M fans outside of FSU were doing as examples, and I was pointing out the Tumblr that was posted with the warning to show that similar P/C ubers existed who were doing the exact same things.
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I get that your point is that V/M fans are not crazier than P/C fans, and I agree with you about that. But V/M have a bigger and older fanbase, plus ice skating is more popular in Canada than in France : so that can make a huge amount of online hate.

I don't disagree with a lot of things in your message actually, but I still don't think quoting this Tumblr is fair while the poster explicitly asked the V/M fans not to. Seeing bashful comments about a team we love (or their fans) makes us angry and that's normal - but this thread is the place for fans to share their love of P/C. Please do not post negative things here about the fans. We are not more responsible for twitter crazies than you are for the people tweeting Gabriella directly to bash her. There's not much either of us can do about it.

I feel if you're hurt by people's comment on V/M the best place to talk about it is their thread, not ours. I appreciate that you tried to tone down things there when it went too far.
 
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Viscaro said:
I don't disagree with a lot of things in your message, but I still don't think quoting this Tumblr is fair while the poster explicitly asked the V/M fans not to. Seeing bashful comments about a team we love makes us angry and that's normal - but this thread is the place for fans to share their love of P/C. Please do not post negative things here about the fans. We are not more responsible for twitter crazies than your are for the people tweeting Gabriella directly to bash her. There's not much either of us can do about it.

I feel if you're hurt by people's comment on V/M the best place to talk about it is their thread, not ours. I appreciate that you tried to tone down things there when it went too far.
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I would not post here if I was hurt by people’s comments about V/M. I am not. I posted here because I feel that many P/C fans, here in this thread (which is why I posted it here), often make generalized and completely double standard posts about V/M fans (not V/M themselves or their skating - I would take my complaints about that to the V/M thread as you said) while pretending P/C fans do not behave the same way. That is relevant to this thread, because I am addressing my comments to P/C fans, not V/M fans.
 
dramagrrl said:
That is relevant to this thread, because I am addressing my comments to P/C fans, not V/M fans.
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Well I'm new to this forum so I do not know exactly how things work here. But I still think that except in cases of strong abuse against a team, you shouldn't post negative things on fan threads, about the fans or the skaters. It's a place where I want to be happy about P/C, not guilt-ridden until the end of times.

Edit : And btw, if you want to complain about "double standards posts", why here ? I think every fan thread is allowed to a bit saltiness as long as it's not abuse. So if a double standard post was made here, let it go. If a double standard post was made on another thread, complain there.
 
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Viscaro said:
I get that your point is that V/M fans are not crazier than P/C fans, and I agree with you about that. But V/M have a bigger and older fanbase, plus ice skating is more popular in Canada than in France : so that can make a huge amount of online hate.
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Exactly. Yes there are some Papadakis and Cizeron fans who are salty over the outcome, and the way the end of the quad played out but there is really no competition with the size and fervor of Virtue and Moir's fanbase. It's just the way it is for a large fanbase and blowing off some steam is necessary when you're facing that. As far as the board being largely pro-PC, that must be in the paid sections.
 
I pop in here because I am interested in after Olympic skating for P&C and the Dean show.

This is a public board, who cares who lurks :rofl:
 
Anyasnake said:
@maya1985 As I said in the P/C FF on the GS forum, this quote is unbelievable :

“At Skate Canada, we have a history of very professional judging that’s very fair, and we’re proud of that. I feel that, as Canadians, when you win in [the] Olympics, it’s when you deserve it, and we feel like these Olympics medals, that we deserve [them].”
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This quote was stated by a Skate Canada official, right?

If so, what else would you expect the organization to say? "We have a long history of corruption and bias, and have always encouraged judges to favour certain skaters and Canadian skaters in particular?"
 
Japanfan said:
This quote was stated by a Skate Canada official, right?

If so, what else would you expect the organization to say? "We have a long history of corruption and bias, and have always encouraged judges to favour certain skaters and Canadian skaters in particular?"
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No, I think it was Scott.
 
Japanfan said:
This quote was stated by a Skate Canada official, right?

If so, what else would you expect the organization to say? "We have a long history of corruption and bias, and have always encouraged judges to favour certain skaters and Canadian skaters in particular?"
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Anyasnake said:
No, I think it was Scott.
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Yep, it was by him; he said that when asked about Didier and his complaints about the judging during the OGM press conference.
 
I saw a discussion with Jayne, Chris + BBC hosts talking about the event, this is what was said following discussion about P/C choreography:

Dean - 'they are simply art on ice, liquid, fluid, so easy'
Torvill - 'they are something very special'
The host mentioned V/M, Dean didn't say anything as Jayne simply said 'they were 'technical' and athletic'.
Dean then said - 'as Robin said earlier, when they are out there, skating perfectly together something else takes over and you feel you are watching something very special.' then ' They are so close together, deep edges and knee bend, speed from nowhere so much more difficulty as well'. So he was giving his own opinion and repeating Cousins'.
(Dean also mentioned that he thought the Shibutanis had given their best performance of the season.)
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After SDs Jayne also said that V/M are brilliant skaters with great unision but in her opinion they tend to overperform. She got lots of hate for this in social media from VM fans.

I'm not sure Robin is a big P/C fan. He has never hidden his opinion that there is just one pair that deserves gold, and it's definitely not P/C.
 
Little video shot in their region, after the gala: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TF5uK35qN8
Asked about the medal, Gaby acknowledges they were coming for gold but they realized being their first Games it was more than just the medal. The whole collective experience really made an impression on them. The individual competition was not so different than any other regular competition. The cohesion of the French team was special though.
Coming back to their native region: they always enjoy it because they can share with people who supported them during the games but also since their beginning and they can enjoy a bit of family time.

As for Robin Cousins, I don't know about him being a big fan but I distinctly remember he was left speechless by the quality of their skating skills during their last two Worlds performances. Anyway, good P/C gets some love from T/D, always a nice confidence booster.
 
Rossig said:
After SDs Jayne also said that V/M are brilliant skaters with great unision but in her opinion they tend to overperform. She got lots of hate for this in social media from VM fans.
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So people aren't entitled to have different tastes:wall: VM fans are out of control. It's not like she said they are overscored or anything.
 
nuge said:
She looked absolutely fabulous a million dollars!
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Look guys, if Gailhaguet wants to promote them, may he start by keeping this makeup/beauty crew around her. Every single time. She looked like a million dollar indeed ! At the same time, it's the first time in 4 years they have looked so "bling bling" thanks to the Short Dance. It suits them really well :D
They either do No-glitter or a ton of them. What's balance anyway :D
 
dramagrrl said:
I'm just not sure why there seem to be double standards here (not on this thread in particular; on FSU in general), especially when this board is widely known to be pro-P/C, if anything.
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That's one of the many things that bother me.

V/M ubers pretending that the whole world (the panel, this board, ...) are against V/M and pro P/C. That any appreciation or compliment over P/C is considered an atttack against V/M. That P/C skating skills are constantly put into question whereas V/M's, no matter how they skate, are supposed to be the apex of skating and are intrinsinquly superior to anybody else's according to V/M supposedly expert fans (especially more expert than P/C fans because who in its right mind would prefer P/C skating to V/M's) :rolleyes:. And so on and so on ...

About the analysis you were mentionning, I don't recall it to be irrespectuous of V/M. The author preferred P/C and explained why. You don't agree with it and it is fine. But don't come here saying that the treatment of V/M by P/C fans is on equal footing than the reverse because it is not true.

The nature and the amount of what has been written (or linked) on P/C in this very forum by many V/M fans/ubers is just not in the same category in terms of abusive, derogatory, lying, misinforming, ... comments. I could give the name of one person for example, who has been not only extremely abusive and agressive in her very wrapped way against P/C in this forum but who also posts hateful, false, (French)bashing of the character assassination kind against P/C on youtube and on as many places as she can. She is very appreciated in the V/M thread.

Yes, there are also pretty sick P/C ubers on youtube or elsewhere but not here. And their numbers and the extent of their malfeasance is quite limited compared to what many V/M ubers do. A very big difference in fire power I'd say considering the overall fan, canadian official and media support V/M has been getting.

As far as the narrative of these OG were fixed in ice dance and we haven't seen this in a very long time, for one it is pretty rdiculous considering that the supposed victim party (always V/M) has won and secondly, talking of pre-judged competition, one has to remember last year's Worlds and the results of that competition to see some real recent kind of fixing.

I understand that sometimes passion overides reason but fairness is fairness. If you speak about fixing and debatable results you need to look at the whole picture and not be so partisan that you become blind. I personnaly understand and accept that some people critise the SD results for P/C but objectively both P/C and V/M have been favored by the judges.
 
thvudragon said:
Why don't we keep the debates to the Dance Hall thread, and let the uber threads stay uber threads. :drama:
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Good idea in theory even though I'm not sure the posters on the ice dance thread will be thrilled.
Maybe we can all agree to disagree and move on now we finally sort of emptied our post Olympic season bitter bags of frustrations.
Hopefully a new and more positive area is starting.
So let's celebrate the new kick ass sexy look of Gaby, DG if you read this ( what a thought that is :yikes:), invest in a hair and make-up artist asap. Maybe we'll all think very very marginally better of you. :saint:
 
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Gaby looks really stunning there! But I also LOVE her more natural look!!! It´s refreshing with all the over-the-top make-up of the other ice dancers. I also love their more simple costumes. They´re perfect the way they are :) But I realized it seems they can´t do anything I don´t like :D
 
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