Stolbova and Klimov Thread

Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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MAXSwagg said:
I haven't followed but is it true they won't keep that BRILLIANT FS next season??
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I don't think they will. Sad that it was never skated to full potential, but I actually think it's better that way. This year's FS was great, unique, dramatic...but I don't think a program about depression belongs at the Olympics where the goal is victory. The program definitely suited them this year - I was actually crying by the end of their FS at Worlds - but I think next season should be about storming back into that top spot, so they should pick something that screams "attack!" instead of "scrape our way out". Just my opinion. Although let's be clear, I loved the program.
 
MAXSwagg

MAXSwagg

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Mad for Skating said:
I don't think they will. Sad that it was never skated to full potential, but I actually think it's better that way. This year's FS was great, unique, dramatic...but I don't think a program about depression belongs at the Olympics where the goal is victory. The program definitely suited them this year - I was actually crying by the end of their FS at Worlds - but I think next season should be about storming back into that top spot, so they should pick something that screams "attack!" instead of "scrape our way out". Just my opinion. Although let's be clear, I loved the program.
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Hopefully they revisit it in the future. For me, when they are on, they are the best in the world. Just the quality of skating is unmatched...
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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MAXSwagg said:
Hopefully they revisit it in the future. For me, when they are on, they are the best in the world. Just the quality of skating is unmatched...
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Unpopular opinion: Stolbova/Klimov and James/Cipres getting almost equal PCS is ridiculous. No matter how well J/C skate, no matter how cool the choreography, they're not half as fast or smooth as Stolbova/Klimov and that should be reflected in the scores. Mini rant over.
 
skatfan

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Well Stol/Klim have amazing skating skills. But this season their performance ability, choreo (that SP was horrible on them) and interpretation were hampered by their lack of training and ongoing injuries. James and Cipres improved on all of those elements and their transitions. So in my book, I'd give S/K a big lead in SS, but the other PCS are not that far apart. No ranting, just offering my opinion.
 
MAXSwagg

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Mad for Skating said:
Unpopular opinion: Stolbova/Klimov and James/Cipres getting almost equal PCS is ridiculous. No matter how well J/C skate, no matter how cool the choreography, they're not half as fast or smooth as Stolbova/Klimov and that should be reflected in the scores. Mini rant over.
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Oh, tell me about it. And I don't see how that's an unpopular opinion. I've seen Stolbova/Klimov twice in person, and at worlds, it was clear to me that they had BY FAR the most superior skating skills and speed (don't get me wrong, Sui and Han who I also love are very good also). The effortlessness with which they move across the ice, the knee bend...it's incredible. It's Chan/Hanyu quality of skating (well, more akin to Hanyu in terms of the absolute effortlessness in which they gain speed in difficult steps and turns). Of course, J/C programs are not my taste at all.

skatfan said:
Well Stol/Klim have amazing skating skills. But this season their performance ability, choreo (that SP was horrible on them) and interpretation were hampered by their lack of training and ongoing injuries. James and Cipres improved on all of those elements and their transitions. So in my book, I'd give S/K a big lead in SS, but the other PCS are not that far apart. No ranting, just offering my opinion.
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I agree about the SP, but after seeing it live at Worlds (even though it was a disaster) it came across better than it does on TV and it oddly fits their elegant and finished movements. Contrary to what some believe, they do have a soft quality about them and this music showed that side (again, difficult to realize on a screen). I appreciate that they tried something different that was clearly out of their comfort zone.
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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MAXSwagg said:
Oh, tell me about it. And I don't see how that's an unpopular opinion. I've seen Stolbova/Klimov twice in person, and at worlds, it was clear to me that they had BY FAR the most superior skating skills and speed (don't get me wrong, Sui and Han who I also love are very good also). The effortlessness with which they move across the ice, the knee bend...it's incredible. It's Chan/Hanyu quality of skating (well, more akin to Hanyu in terms of the absolute effortlessness in which they gain speed in difficult steps and turns). Of course, J/C programs are not my taste at all.

I agree about the SP, but after seeing it live at Worlds (even though it was a disaster) it came across better than it does on TV and it oddly fits their elegant and finished movements. Contrary to what some believe, they do have a soft quality about them and this music showed that side (again, difficult to realize on a screen). I appreciate that they tried something different that was clearly out of their comfort zone.
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To me, James/Cipres's FS this year was a dark, modern program that Stolbova/Klimov could've pulled off amazingly with their speed. J/C's SP is in the ballpark of S/K's "I put a spell on you"...and for me, when I have been blessed with S/K's skating in similar programs, J/C's fall a little flat for me.
I will say that J/C have improved LOADS this year, and their programs suit them. But they should NOT be this close to S/K. @MAXSwagg, I was blessed to see S/K live at Skate America 2015 and although they were making mistakes, their basic skills ARE second to none.
As for the SP, at first I was VERY skeptical. Clair de Lune for one of the fiercest divas in the sport? But as soon as I saw it I was in love. She looked so regal! I had the feeling like I was watching a British miniseries - Pride and Prejudice or something. And the program itself was set up well. After the three elements that gave them trouble, they started doing their spins and footwork and I could almost forget the jumping mistakes. Overall it was not a bad program at all. Unusual, yes, but unique is good!
 
julieann

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J/C have improved over last season but they are a tad sloppy in some areas and aren't skating with the sameness and ease as S/K. J/C are like two single skaters on the ice and I think the judges are rewarding them too much for the improvement. They should be in the mid 130's but not the in 140's. I think they have been way over-scored especially in the latter season. The judges don't seem to be deducting for the small errors in any category.

It seems like the judges couldn't get past the errors and give S/K credit for what they did do properly. Side by side, you can see the better team is S/K and it should be reflected in the scores.
 
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barbarafan

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Mad for Skating said:
Btw @Lovemyvike...I see we still haven't found a title for this thread yet...why not something related to the Hunger Games? Whenever I read the books I see a freakish similarity between Katniss/Peeta and Ksenia/Fedor - she's dominant and feisty, he's charismatic and gentle. Just an idea for the thread title.
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I think she is very deep and has a lot of levels...You must be fierce, at least outwardly to survive in the high competitive life of a figure skater in Russia..but I believe it was at worlds in Boston last yr they finished their program and she had a very stern face and the fans were clapping and clapping and clapping and she suddenly gave this huge smile and there are few smiles to compare with it.
 
aftershocks

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Mad for Skating said:
To me, James/Cipres's FS this year was a dark, modern program that Stolbova/Klimov could've pulled off amazingly with their speed. J/C's SP is in the ballpark of S/K's "I put a spell on you"...and for me, when I have been blessed with S/K's skating in similar programs, J/C's fall a little flat for me.
I will say that J/C have improved LOADS this year, and their programs suit them. But they should NOT be this close to S/K. @MAXSwagg, I was blessed to see S/K live at Skate America 2015 and although they were making mistakes, their basic skills ARE second to none...
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I agree that Stol/Klim have superb skills. IMO, Stol/Klim, among many other pairs teams were very much inspired by Savchenko/Szolkowy to find their own edgy style that is different from the usual Russian balletic aesthetic. However, I must say that one of the weaknesses of Stol/Klim has been their lack of chemistry. And chemistry is what James/Cipres have in spades! :encore: Together, J/C are so hot, hot, hot on the ice, and they have very good basic skills technically and athletically. :respec: Where J/C need to make improvements is in their blade skills, speed, line and stretch. They've got everything else, and then some. To me, the fact that J/C have their own unique style and a great connection with each other and the audience is a distinct advantage that many other technically and aesthetically proficient teams sorely lack. To each their own, but I think you are being a bit OTT and snooty in your putdown of J/C vs S/K @julieann.

Stol/Klim do realize their weaknesses, and their programs this past season helped them to address their 'lack of chemistry' weakness. Their Clair de Lune sp was out of character from what we expect from them, but it worked beautifully. I was really drawn in. :) I even saw Ksenia smiling and relating with Fedor during the middle of that program! It was clear that they enjoyed skating to it. ITA with your assessment of S/K's Clair de Lune @Mad for Skating.

Still, I think S/K have more work to do in terms of developing better chemistry together. But their superior technical strengths and their choice of music and choreo can camouflage and work around this weakness, so I would not be surprised to find S/K being more competitive next season. I prefer S/K's partnership and their strengths as a team over the younger and more boring Tarasova/Morosov. Of course T/M's technical brilliance when they are on is amazing, but when they are not on technically, T/M are even more boring than usual. S/K on the other hand, have never been boring. But S/K do have a challenge on their hands to get back to their usual level of strong technical consistency.
 
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aftershocks

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Sylvia said:
All of Icenetwork's "Best Programs in 2016-17" polls and voting took place on Twitter:

Pairs FS (Stolbova/Klimov were one of the 4 choices): https://twitter.com/icenetwork/status/859044373643874306

Pairs SP: https://twitter.com/icenetwork/status/857950916145799168
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I think that James/Cipres or Savchenko/Massot should have won the fp poll over Sui/Han. S/H were lovely and very strong in their comeback, and their fp is very emotional but not better by that much over J/C's and S/M's. Seemingly S/H came upon the idea for John Legend's version of Bridge Over Troubled Water from their choreographer, Lori Nichol, possibly vetting some songs by Simon & Garfunkel after seeing J/C's success with Disturbed's version of the Simon & Garfunkel tune, The Sound of Silence. There is just so much copying of moves, music and ideas in figure skating that I wouldn't be surprised. Obviously both programs are different and suit each pair beautifully so there's no overlap in that sense. Of course, S/H would have the edge in terms of their speed and overall tech strengths.

I feel S/M's fp is quite wonderful, with choreo by John Kerr, or is S/M's sp choreo by John Kerr, and their fp choreo by Gary Beacom? It doesn't say on Savchenko's Wiki page. In any case, I would have had J/C or S/M winning for fp with the polling close between J/C, S/M and S/H for the fp. I would have had S/H winning the sp by a whisker over J/C and with S/M very close behind. I also feel S/K deserved much higher percentages in the fp polling, and I feel S/K deserved to be in sp poll over T/M.
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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aftershocks said:
I agree that Stol/Klim have superb skills. IMO, Stol/Klim, among many other pairs teams were very much inspired by Savchenko/Szolkowy to find their own edgy style that is different from the usual Russian balletic aesthetic. However, I must say that one of the weaknesses of Stol/Klim has been their lack of chemistry. And chemistry is what James/Cipres have in spades! :encore: Together, J/C are so hot, hot, hot on the ice, and they have very good basic skills technically and athletically. :respec: Where J/C need to make improvements is in their blade skills, speed, line and stretch. They've got everything else, and then some. To me, the fact that J/C have their own unique style and a great connection with each other and the audience is a distinct advantage that many other technically and aesthetically proficient teams sorely lack. To each their own, but I think you are being a bit OTT and snooty in your putdown of J/C vs S/K @julieann.

Stol/Klim do realize their weaknesses, and their programs this past season helped them to address their 'lack of chemistry' weakness. Their Clair de Lune sp was out of character from what we expect from them, but it worked beautifully. I was really drawn in. :) I even saw Ksenia smiling and relating with Fedor during the middle of that program! It was clear that they enjoyed skating to it. ITA with your assessment of S/K's Clair de Lune @Mad for Skating.

Still, I think S/K have more work to do in terms of developing better chemistry together. But their superior technical strengths and their choice of music and choreo can camouflage and work around this weakness, so I would not be surprised to find S/K being more competitive next season. I prefer S/K's partnership and their strengths as a team over the younger and more boring Tarasova/Morosov. Of course T/M's technical brilliance when they are on is amazing, but when they are not on technically, T/M are even more boring than usual. S/K on the other hand, have never been boring. But S/K do have a challenge on their hands to get back to their usual level of strong technical consistency.
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I'm not here to put down James/Cipres FYI. Just trying to explain a point.
Ksenia in Clair de Lune was something I NEVER expected to see. I've noticed this softer side to her all season - it's really lovely. Smiling in the step sequence, hugging Fedor after that disastrous Worlds SP, and this new fancy for pale pink clothes...I was starting to think she and Fedor were dating or something (but he cleared that rumor up quickly).

As for James/Cipres...they do have the chemistry, but I personally value actual skating over sexy looks at each other. Which is more difficult: to do a deep spread eagle, or to take a look at your partner with desire? S/K have such a different kind of style that it's hard to judge "is there chemistry?" It's more like a Cubist painting or something. And if they aren't skating a romantic themed program, I don't know how they would incorporate chemistry.

I'm not saying S/K shouldn't try to incorporate more chemistry, it would be great to see. They're an attractive couple; there's no reason why they can't use that to their advantage! But at the same time, I'd hate to see them saddled with a romantic program that doesn't fit them and things fall flat. "Notre-Dame de Paris" was a great concept, but I don't think they were mature enough to deliver it like they could if they skated it now.

I agree on your point about Tarasova/Morozov. Lovely people, great technique, but the actual programs are a little flat. Which is not their own fault, but the choreographer's.

It will be an interesting rivalry this year - who will enter the Olympics as Russian No. 1 pair, Stolbova/Klimov or Tarasova/Morozov? I think T/M have the advantage for now but you can NEVER count out S/K. They have that grit and coming in as the underdog might be a good thing. I also wonder which pair will get the home GP at Rostelecom Cup. Or maybe we'll get a treat and they'll both get sent.

No matter what happens, I'm determined to enjoy this Olympic year with Ksenia and Fedor as much as I can. You never know when your faves might retire so you have to treat every competition like it's their last.
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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julieann said:
J/C have improved over last season but they are a tad sloppy in some areas and aren't skating with the sameness and ease as S/K. J/C are like two single skaters on the ice and I think the judges are rewarding them too much for the improvement. They should be in the mid 130's but not the in 140's. I think they have been way over-scored especially in the latter season. The judges don't seem to be deducting for the small errors in any category.

It seems like the judges couldn't get past the errors and give S/K credit for what they did do properly. Side by side, you can see the better team is S/K and it should be reflected in the scores.
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I think J/C's "chemistry" comes more from being two attractive people than actually skating together. For example, in their SP step sequence, they're going in opposite directions and doing nothing in hold. Ksenia and Fedor did the same thing in their SP to "I put a spell on you" last year, and people said it had no chemistry. Now Vanessa and Morgan do it, and everyone says it's such a sexy program and they have great chemistry. If J/C are going to play the "we win on chemistry" card, they need to skate together. Like Iliushechkina/Moscovitch's SP - there are tons of little choreographic moves that make it almost like a tango in ice dancing. That, IMO, is true chemistry.

I will say that James/Cipres are very strong on the technical side, they have a quad throw and their side-by-sides are getting much more consistent, so I won't argue their tech scores too much. But let's direct this conversation back to Stolbova and Klimov - we can discuss James and Cipres someplace else. Sorry for leading y'all off on a long side note.
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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barbarafan said:
I think she is very deep and has a lot of levels...You must be fierce, at least outwardly to survive in the high competitive life of a figure skater in Russia..but I believe it was at worlds in Boston last yr they finished their program and she had a very stern face and the fans were clapping and clapping and clapping and she suddenly gave this huge smile and there are few smiles to compare with it.
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Oh yes...she's a very interesting lady. She's not the kind of person who smiles at everyone when she doesn't feel like it, but when she really feels touched by something, she has this genuine, heavenly smile. My sweet friend was in Helsinki for Worlds and she ran into Ksenia outside the bathrooms. She asked Ksenia to autograph something for me, and Ksenia just got this huge smile, signed, and even asked my friend where I was from. She really is a lovely person - very strong, but with a lot of heart.
I don't know if you've read the whole Hunger Games trilogy, but Katniss is a lot like that by the end of the series. Guess that's what made me think of it actually...
The two sides of Ksenia's personality actually gave me an idea: for an Olympic program, if they're trying to stick with dark and modern, they could portray the cycle of bipolar depression. She could be playing a bipolar woman, and he could play the bipolar depression. Since bipolar depression is a cycle of extreme highs and lows, it would allow us to see both sides of their skating. It would also symbolize the highs and lows in the career. Just a thought.
 
aftershocks

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Mad for Skating said:
I'm not here to put down James/Cipres FYI. Just trying to explain a point.
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Oh, I understand that you weren't doing that, and I agree with your earlier post, aside from minor exceptions I noted. I was referencing julieann's comments, if you read my post #585 carefully. We each feel things differently about different skaters, and that's normal. We aren't all always going to agree on every detail. :)

For example, chemistry is not necessarily about romance. And the way pairs look at each other does not mean they have chemistry or are a good match. What James/Cipres have that works has to do with a combination of their good looks, their skating abilities, the way they move over the ice, their athleticism, their personalities, the contrasts & the similarities between them -- yin & yang, plus their palpable connection which is not about how they look at each other. Together they simply happen to sizzle. They feel it and the audience feels it. Of course, they need everything else too in order for it all to work. Happily, their hard work paid off this season with their new team of coaches and choreographers. However, everything J/C have done with other coaches and choreographers also led to their success this season. I think the importance of choosing the right choreography and music is becoming more and more evident. It is crucial to achieving success in figure skating.

ITA this J/C discussion should be taken to the James/Cipres thread (which I have done).

Getting back to Stolbova/Klimov: I love their Clair de Lune sp, as I've mentioned on a number of occasions since I first saw it at Russian Nationals. For me, Stol/Klim's biggest asset is their technical precision and unison gained from their Russian aesthetic training. However, their personalities do not connect very well and that's what they have worked hard on overcoming. The tension between them is not of a sexual or romantic nature, but of an 'opposites' nature. They also have history in common as a Russian pair who have worked together for many years. That has held them in good stead, along with their common goal of winning.

The programs S/K choose out of necessity do not shout 'romance,' but an angsty kind of tension and passionate purpose that works. Ksenia is the diva who is a bit stronger overall than Fedor. But he lives up to her magnetic explosiveness with his quiet, steadiness and unflappability. I think they are gaining more of an ease and sense of humor with each other too, after all they have been through together. :)
 
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Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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I think S/K's personalities actually work quite well together, they're just so different that it's hard to understand each other sometimes. There's a definite hot and cool contrast, which I find so interesting. Immediately you would think she is the leader, but I think he's equally strong by being able to control his temper and think sensibly. I can definitely tell that they seem to be getting along better lately - the Worlds SP kiss and cry says it all :)
Interestingly enough, I think they look amazing when they skate side-by-side, imitating each other. They have the Sui/Han ability to stay in sync as they move. So I think choreography that emphasizes that would be ideal for them.
 
MAXSwagg

MAXSwagg

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arakwafan2006 said:
Uhhhh , maybe not but it is surpassed by the Chinese.
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Um, no. I've seen them live several times now. The ease with which Stolbova and Klimov move across the ice is the best. I would give them 9.75 in skating skills and Sui and Han a 9.25. Do you even watch what they're doing with their blades? Clearly not.

Stolbova Klimov 9.75
Sui Han 9.25
Tarasova Morozov 9.25

Everyone else 8.50 and below
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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^^ S/K are magic in person. S/H are great too but I do give S/K the advantage there (of course though I'm biased). T/M are great on speed but I'm not sure if they have the transitions yet (that is the fault of their programs not them).

Update: Ksenia is in Miami, looks like she's having a great time!
 
Mad for Skating

Mad for Skating

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Ksenia and Fedor are going to both COR and NHK in the fall!

At COR they'll face off against Tarasova/Morozov - home country, who will claim the title? Also Seguin/Bilodeau will be there to shake things up.
At NHK they face Sui/Han, Alexa and Chris Knierim, and Seguin/Bilodeau again. I actually think this is not such a bad draw. Even if they were to lose to T/M at COR and S/H at NHK, they should be safely into the Final.
All they have to do now is stay healthy. *crosses fingers*
 
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