Mass Shooting at LGBT Nightclub in Orlando

[Prancer]

Why Are Flags Flown at Half-Staff?

Yes, the President can make an executive order lowering the flag to half-staff to honor the passing of other important figures or tragic events. For example, President George W. Bush ordered the flags flown at half-staff until the interment of Pope John Paul II. For Mandela, the flags will remain at half-staff until sunset on December 9.

With national tragedies, the length of time seems to be a bit more arbitrary. Following the September 11th attacks, Bush ordered the flag be flown at half-staff until September 16, 2001. The Indian Ocean earthquake and resulting tsunamis in 2004 prompted flags to be flown at half-staff from a Monday through the end of the following Friday.

 

[nylynnr]

Another thing to note. Just as the majority of the dead were LGBTQ, they were also Latino. I note that Trump et al is not mentioning that, I wonder how many he would have liked to deport?

All of them who resided in the U.S. illegally. Whatever Trump has said he would like to do is all talk. President Obama, on the other hand, has deported more than 2.5 million people, far more than President Bush.

 

[Simone411]

It could, but it's very difficult to do so and very unlikely that 2/3 of the states would ratify. That's why there aren't that many amendments to the Constitution. Neither the Executive, Legislative nor Judicial branches can overturn an amendement or add a new one for that matter. They can suggest, propose, and evaluate the constatutionality thereof, but the states and specifically voters within those states make the actual determination.

It's true, and hunting is one of the reasons more than one third of the Americans own guns:

National Rifle Association: Hunting and Conservation

This is from the article:

Hunting also contributes more than $38.3 billion to the economy each year, supporting more than 680,000 jobs. Hunters have provided millions of meals to those in need, by donating game meat through Hunters for the Hungry, a program started by the NRA, and similar programs. Hunting continues to rank as one of the safest outdoor activities in America, and an overwhelming majority of Americans support hunting.

 

[kittyjake5]

Forgive me if this has already been posted. Jet Blue has offered free air travel to and from Orlando
to immediate family members and domestic partners. Thank you Jet Blue!

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tra...rlando-victims?xid=soc_socialflow_facebook_tl

 

[MacMadame]

Did I say they are statistically correlated? No, just that the lack of security gives rise to guns as a justification for some.

I never said anything about statistics and my example was a personal one so I think you have reading comprehension problems.

You can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, but the reality is that this is NOT why Americans have so many guns. First of all, it's a small minority who have guns at all while the majority of houses do not bars on the windows or other security features unless it's a bad neighborhood.

Secondly, having a gun to protect yourself but not locking your windows and doors is stupid and none of the people I know who think they need a gun to defend themselves do that.

And the Bill of Rights has never been repealed.

That doesn't mean it's not theoretically possible.

 

[Prancer]

I never said anything about statistics and my example was a personal one so I think you have reading comprehension problems.

You can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, but the reality is that this is NOT why Americans have so many guns. First of all, it's a small minority who have guns at all while the majority of houses do not bars on the windows or other security features unless it's a bad neighborhood.

Secondly, having a gun to protect yourself but not locking your windows and doors is stupid and none of the people I know who think they need a gun to defend themselves do that.

Since we're all sharing anecdotes, here's mine: All of the gun owners I know are paranoid about safety and have camera systems and alarms and god knows what else. They talk about criminals breaking into their houses all the time, even those who live in places where it's extremely unlikely that anyone will ever break into their houses.

So yeah, IME at least, people don't own guns because their houses are easy to break into; they own guns because it's another layer of protection if their other security measures fail.

 

[Tavi]

There's no such thing as "settled law".

To say that a law is well settled means that the rule and / or its interpretation are not in doubt, not that the law can't be repealed, amended, or overruled in the future.

The Bill of Rights never said who could and couldn't vote. And the Bill of Rights has never been repealed.

While not technically part of the Bill of Rights, Amendments 15, 19, 24 and 26 to the Constitution do address voting.

 

[jeffisjeff]

While not technically part of the Bill of Rights, Amendments 15, 19, 24 and 26 to the Constitution do address voting.

There is no "technically" about it. The Bill of Rights is defined as the first 10 amendments. Period.

 

[Simone411]

Since we're all sharing anecdotes, here's mine: All of the gun owners I know are paranoid about safety and have camera systems and alarms and god knows what else. They talk about criminals breaking into their houses all the time, even those who live in places where it's extremely unlikely that anyone will ever break into their houses.

So yeah, IME at least, people don't own guns because their houses are easy to break into; they own guns because it's another layer of protection if their other security measures fail.

This is true. In my neighborhood and around town, there had been a series of robberies occurring while I was still at NurseCare in 2012. When I got home, I did make my home more secure. The chief of Police also made a lot of changes including getting a new detective because he didn't do his job. He didn't even have the officers dust for fingerprints, etc.

My neighborhood is a lot more secure now, and with all the security features I have now, I don't feel the need to have a weapon anymore plus the other reason I stated about my great nieces and great nephew coming over to my home a lot.

Though it still could be possible, it could be possible anywhere. My neighbors other than the crazy neighbors across the street that play their music really loud have sort of a neighborhood watch, too. We watch out for each other. It's not a bad idea at all for neighbors to get together and discuss a neighborhood watch especially with how it is today.

 

[Vash01]

They are reporting that the killer's wife tried to stop him when he bought a lot of ammunition. It means she knew what he planned to do. Isn't that considered a crime (to not notify the authorities before the crime)? Not sure what the law is regarding this. May be someone can enlighten me.

ETA: Just found this.

Authorities are considering filing criminal charges against Noor for failing to tell them what she knew before the brutal attack, law enforcement officials say, but no decision has been made.

 

[Tavi]

There is no "technically" about it. The Bill of Rights is defined as the first 10 amendments. Period.

And your substantive point is?

 

[genevieve]

Link to story about the wife knowing

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051


I'm just..... what? Appalled? There are articles supposing that she, like his ex-wife, had been under his control and had been abused, but I can't see any way to look at this other than her being an accomplice, even if an accidental one.

 

[VGThuy]

Link to story about the wife knowing

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051


I'm just..... what? Appalled? There are articles supposing that she, like his ex-wife, had been under his control and had been abused, but I can't see any way to look at this other than her being an accomplice, even if an accidental one.

I'm happy you said it.

 

[BlueRidge]

It seemed almost certain that this would come out about the wife.

Have any more details about who she is been reported?

 

[attyfan]

They are reporting that the killer's wife tried to stop him when he bought a lot of ammunition. It means she knew what he planned to do. Isn't that considered a crime (to not notify the authorities before the crime)? Not sure what the law is regarding this. May be someone can enlighten me.

I don't know about Florida law, but in California, at least, it is usually not illegal to simply fail to report that you suspect someone is going to commit a crime (even if you have good grounds for those suspicions). It may not make the wife an accomplice. (An accomplice can get charged with the same crime as the principal -- i.e., murder -- not with a separate crime of failing to report). If, as the link suggested, they are considering charges, then Florida law may be different.

 

[Vash01]

Link to story about the wife knowing

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051


I'm just..... what? Appalled? There are articles supposing that she, like his ex-wife, had been under his control and had been abused, but I can't see any way to look at this other than her being an accomplice, even if an accidental one.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read that the wife knew about it, my thought was- it means she was an accomplice - willingly or unwillingly- unless she had warned the authorities.

 

[Vash01]

Link to these reports please? I'm curious. Also, I don't know about Florida law, but in California, at least, it is usually not illegal to simply fail to report that you suspect someone is going to commit a crime (even if you have good grounds for those suspicions).

That's interesting.

I see that Geneviev has already posted a link. I saw the article posted on CNN (I think)

 

[BlueRidge]

During his comments in the bathroom, Mateen also claimed to have “snipers outside” the club. The Orlando Police Department said that despite rumors of multiple shooters, which often emerge after mass killings, Mateen was the only gunman at the club.

“It sounded as if he was communicating with other people who were involved with it…. Maybe he was just deranged, maybe he’s just talking to himself, but I honestly feel like I don’t think he was able to pull that off all by himself,” Carter said.

How long until we have full-fledged claims that there were multiple shooters and there's a coverup and all the rest?

 

[attyfan]

That's interesting.

I see that Geneviev has already posted a link. I saw the article posted on CNN (I think)

Yes, I edited my post accordingly. It varies state by state. Also, there may be civil liability for failing to report, even if it is not illegal.

 

[skategal]

She would at least be an accessory to a crime.

I feel bad for her being married to an asshole and probably abused by him, but they need to file charges if for no other reason than to deter others from doing the same thing.

 

[VGThuy]

I disagree with the idea that we need to make the wife an example or that criminally charging her will help matters, unless she was a more active and willful participant than what I originally read but I won't go into detail as I think it will just deter the discussion away from the victims and is probably more appropriate in the related thread in PI.

 

[Kultakissu]

How long until we have full-fledged claims that there were multiple shooters and there's a coverup and all the rest?

Oh there's been a Facebook post doing the rounds since yesterday that there were two other shooters who got away and people are not told about this because they don't want to create panic.

 

[jlai]

I never said anything about statistics and my example was a personal one so I think you have reading comprehension problems.

You can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, but the reality is that this is NOT why Americans have so many guns. First of all, it's a small minority who have guns at all while the majority of houses do not bars on the windows or other security features unless it's a bad neighborhood.

Secondly, having a gun to protect yourself but not locking your windows and doors is stupid and none of the people I know who think they need a gun to defend themselves do that..

Or that you jump to conclusions based on couple of posts. Never did I say that was the main reason for Americans to have guns. I only discounted one of the reasons to have guns, one of others.

I also don't think gun owners don't lock Doors. The problem with such a discussion is that posts are read as if they represent the entirety of the poster's gun views instead of a small part of it and it is really a pointless discussion. Because there is no point of my repeating what has been said by agreeing with others x times; the only way to add to the discussion is to add the one part that hasn't been discussed to death

 

[genevieve]

I'm happy you said it.

I'm not happy about anything related to this.

I agree that criminally charging the wife isn't likely to help matters, but I found her knowledge ahead of time shocking.

 

[Sparks]

Apparently, the wife was with him to buy ammunition and also drove him to the club in the past.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

 

[skatingfan5]

Yes, I edited my post accordingly. It varies state by state. Also, there may be civil liability for failing to report, even if it is not illegal.

Since she reported that she drove him to the club to "scope it out" couldn't she be considered an accessory? Like @genevieve I am shocked that she knew about it beforehand and didn't report it.

 

[jeffisjeff]

And your substantive point is?

That Amendments 15, 19, 24 and 26 are not part of the Bill of Rights no matter how you look at it (technically or not technically ).

I think the larger point that was being made is that the Bill of Rights is seen as more "untouchable" (and thus much harder to change) than other amendments. So the distinction (technically or not technically ) actually matters.

That said, I'd totally vote for repealing the 2nd amendment. Not that I'll ever get the chance...

 

[Sparks]

Since she reported that she drove him to the club to "scope it out" couldn't she be considered an accessory?

I would think so. She knew his intent.

 

[jlai]

So yeah, IME at least, people don't own guns because their houses are easy to break into; they own guns because it's another layer of protection if their other security measures fail.

I don't think people have guns because they thibk their house is easy to break into. I think American houses are easy to break into and that Americans are lax about security. That is not the same as American homeowners think their houses are easy to break into. That is not the same thing. I never said that.

And even the homeowners who are more concerned about security would never do the things my Chinese parents would do, which is why I said it is cultural and unless you have experience that stark contrast I expect people to only repeat what is in their American experience

 

[Vash01]

Since she reported that she drove him to the club to "scope it out" couldn't she be considered an accessory? Like @genevieve I am shocked that she knew about it beforehand and didn't report it.

It seems she knew his intent. Why didn't she report this to anyone? Was she very afraid (what he might do to her if she did?)?