Gris

不做奴才做公民
Messages
1,705

ISU's statement - Russia gets to keep the Bronze medal.
 

zebobes

Well-Known Member
Messages
634
So the stick was the four year ban, the carrot was the Bronze medal...

Wow, this makes things a lot more complicated. Where will the medal ceremony be?
 

Allskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,811
Wow, this makes things a lot more complicated. Where will the medal ceremony be?
And will the remaining Russian team members be there? The easiest thing would be if the Russians denounce the ruling by the ISU and claim that they are refusing to take part in a medal ceremony.

It would be weird to have them at a medal ceremony held at an event where Russians currently are not allowed to participate.
 
Last edited:

On My Own

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,184
Well in this case my expectations were null, so not disappointed.

I will reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, if Chinese WAG with their far worse history of abuse in the hands of their government had their entire bronze medal nullified for an age discrepancy (NOT competitive advantage in the form of drugs), then I find no reason Russia of all places should get to keep this medal.
 

zebobes

Well-Known Member
Messages
634
I just realized, so many Canadian skaters from the team competition are at 4CC together right now. How do you think following the news would have affected their mood while preparing for the competition? This has got to have been a rollercoaster, unless Skate Canada clearly told them from the start that they would not be a medalist. Even if they knew all along, I imagine this still has got to be disappointing.
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,268
So the 2022 Euro gold medal goes to Shcherbakova instead of being vacated. This means the ISU treats it as if KV never competed there.

But then for the Olympic team event, they are not adding 1 point to each of the 9 woman in the team woman's short and each of the 4 woman in the team woman's free and instead leave the top spot in each segment vacated.

Not that consistent.
 

Hedwig

Antique member
Messages
22,582
And will the remaining Russian team members be there? The easiest thing would be if the Russians denounce the ruling by the ISU and claim that they are refusing to take part in a medal ceremony.

It would be weird to have them at a medal ceremony held at an event where Russians currently are not allowed to participate.
that would be weird indeed, yes.

And I hold true to my question yesterday if them getting the bronce is not a greater insult to them than getting nothing at all because they then have to stand on the third step and acknowledge the ruling and acknowledge that they lost the gold medal.

I would frankly be surprised if they showed up for the ceremony.
 

airgelaal

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,532

ISU's statement - Russia gets to keep the Bronze medal.
I think now many people can sleep peacefully, since romsky won’t receive a medal :rolleyes:
 

Rainbow

Well-Known Member
Messages
461
ETA: and actually it's very easy to prove my point. :lol:

Just look at the history of doping in figure skating. And now compare it to any other sport. One might say that figure skaters are made out of a different dough, and they are just that anti doping naturally, but anyone who spent 5 minutes with an elite athlete knows that the only explanation as to why (nearly) none of them has (nearly) ever taken doing is that doping doesn't really have an effect worth the risk.

There's literally nothing an elite athlete wouldn't do in order to win, and that includes ruining one's health, losing social interactions, enduring psychological abuse, becoming financially bankrupt, starving and the list goes on. The only way to stop this is to prevent the victory by set rules, hense, anti-doping. If doping was really contributing to results in figure skating, we would have had hundreds of cases through the history.

OT, but while I don't have a formed opinion about transgenders rights, one thing I'm absolutely adamant about, and that is trans-women must not be allowed into women's sport under no circumstances. And that is because it would create a situation in which male athletes would absolutely start changing gender, passing whatever operations and therapy required, just to get that competitive edge, and worse yet, would be pushed to do that by coaches and parents. I repeat, just spend 5 minutes with an elite athlete.
Just because doping in figure skating is hushed over, doesn't mean it didn't and doesn't happen. The doping of figure skaters in the GDR is well documented. Witt and Steuer for example were given oral-turinabol, Woetzel was given anti growth hormones. Pairs skater Rolf Österreich, silver in Innsbruck, was tested positive with steroids before travelling to the Olympics. I also believe Witt was so emotional regarding Valieva, because she knew it could have been herself in this position. Marie Katrin Kanitz, Euro Bronze in Pairs 1987, still fights for justice after suffering severe the side effects of doping.

Especially when sports is very closely linked to state propaganda and the stakes and pressure are even higher illegal measures are more likely to be taken. During a doping trial involving Woetzel an expert remarked of course doping would help with performace in a sport, where you need endurance and strength.

And on a different note: Many experts are saying for years that doping in tennis (the Spanish stars, cough) and football must be rampant. Yet, almost noone gets caught.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

Playing ping pong with balls of chocolate jam
Messages
22,537
He won't speculate. But, I will. :D Unless they weren't going to ban her at all or were going to ban her for only a month, the penalty isn't going to have much impact since she can't compete internationally now anyway. So, they make it look harsh and like they are taking doping seriously without having much impact on Valieva. Of course, we wouldn't see that explanation in the reasoned decision. (I assume Phil doesn't know what's in that decision.)
:sekret: thinks the harsh punishment is the result of the outrageously dumb defense line with the cake.

I think it's more the case of "low stakes, as the Russians in general and Valieva in particular are not going to participate anyway, so let's make a presentation case out of it".

I wonder if the RusFed will comply with the ban and remove her from all the competitions and shows, and if not - what would be ISU reaction. There must be a huge pressure from the political elites to do the opposite of what "the Americans" demand, a huge pressure to comply on the part of the Federation to stay on the civil side of the ISU, and a super huge pressure on Valieva to declare she's retiring off ice forever anyway.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,036

briancoogaert

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,722
Folks, hold your horses. I believe that Valieva has a month to file an appeal with the Swiss Federal Tribunal. It might be a while before the Olympic and European medals are awarded/redistributed.
I don't know who jumped to Anna Cherbakova's wikipedia to give her the 2022 European title so fast ! Hahahaaaa
 

Firedancer

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,655
What great news to wake up to. I was tearing up this morning reading the news and thinking about the skaters finally getting their medals.

Not happy with the ISU. We knew it was possibility but it’s inconsistent with the other adjustments the ISU made. For the individual event and Europeans everyone moved up a slot. They should do the same in the team event. I think this is going to make it unlikely the medal ceremony will be in Paris.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
Messages
9,802

ISU's statement - Russia gets to keep the Bronze medal.
I wonder if Canada might appeal this.
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
Messages
36,585
That is some rank BS by the ISU to not reallocate the points in the Team Event Women’s SP & FS. Skate Canada is probably breathing a sigh of relief that it's 2022 team didn't include Meagan Duhamel or Virtue/Moir because I can't see any of those 3 going silently into the night the way the actual 2022 team will. About the only people who I think would be ballsy enough to protest are KMT and Eric Radford.

I do wonder what this means for a medal ceremony now. The IOC won't want it to be in Paris because they aren't going to want to honor or highlight Russia in any way. But can any of us see Skate Canada willingly or happily organizing a victory ceremony at Montreal Worlds when their team was screwed? I can envision an audience booing the Russians in that scenario. Not to mention, would they even show up unless the ban against them competing in ISU events is lifted before then.
 

PRlady

Cowardly admin
Staff member
Messages
46,108
Since the TE is a unicorn, it has its own rules. It’s permissible to compete without having a skater or skaters in one discipline and this is now essentially what ROC did. I don’t have a problem with them keeping the bronze, their other skaters did well.
 

airgelaal

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,532
False start :watch:
The Russian Olympic Committee will definitely appeal to CAS the ISU decision to redistribute the final places in the team figure skating tournament at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games in Beijing. Our lawyers have already begun preparing the necessary documents for filing an appeal.

We proceed from the fact that, in accordance with the current, applicable ISU rules, the consequences of a decision on sanctions against an individual athlete, in this case Kamila Valieva, cannot be a basis for reviewing the results of a team tournament. Our legal position is based, among other things, on existing precedents in CAS practice.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,191
So why are some US coaches still praising/following The Eteri Way…like the team of the first US sr woman to rotate a quad last week, wearing a black-and-red Valieva onesie costume? All of this in the middle of the Valieva investigation? Good grief!
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
30,041
Since the TE is a unicorn, it has its own rules. It’s permissible to compete without having a skater or skaters in one discipline and this is now essentially what ROC did. I don’t have a problem with them keeping the bronze, their other skaters did well.

You are permitted to compete with fewer than the max number of gymnasts in the gymnastics team event.

However, beyond that, disqualifying Valieva’s results without moving everyone else up a place but then moving all the teams up a place is so deeply illogical that it’s hard to imagine anyone supports it.

If people want to argue that ROC should get the result they would have gotten without Valieva, I can see where they are coming from.

That result is 4th.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,191

ISU's statement - Russia gets to keep the Bronze medal.
Oh sorry Canada! I wanted to see Roman Sadovsky with his Olympic medal!!! 🥉
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
Messages
9,802
You are permitted to compete with fewer than the max number of gymnasts in the gymnastics team event.

However, beyond that, disqualifying Valieva’s results without moving everyone else up a place but then moving all the teams up a place is so deeply illogical that it’s hard to imagine anyone supports it.

If people want to argue that ROC should get the result they would have gotten without Valieva, I can see where they are coming from.

That result is 4th.
Thank you for explaining this. Looking at the chart the ISU posted I didn't realize they hadn't moved the other women's rankings up by one point (it was very early in the morning here so tired eyes is my excuse LOL). Anyway realizing this I think it's likely Canada will appeal.
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
Messages
36,585
So, apparently Russia doesn't want anything. Talk about cutting off their noses to spite their faces. There is no way they come out of this with those gold medals still in their grasp. There is way too much precedent across multiple sports both winter & summer where a doping DQ of one athlete has resulted in the whole team being DQed.

Man, talk about incredibly dumb on their part. The ISU held out an olive branch here and the ROC just swatted it away. How do you even, for one second, consider letting them back into competition if this is the way they are going to behave?
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
12,005
Hmmmmm I have about 6 weeks to make my sign for Montreal Worlds protesting this asinine decision.

Either DQ the team or let them compete without Valieva and redo the points as if she wasn’t there.

Russia can’t have its cake and eat it too.

Ugh…..hope Skate Canada files an appeal.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information