The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise

[Spun Silver]

Their Instagram story says stay tuned tomorrow. Hmmm....

 

[suki]

H/D churn when they dance. The Shibs float effortlessly.

 

[VGThuy]

So, I was talking about how half this team is Asian-American with some fellow skating fans, and I was looking back, and I think Alex Shibutani might have been the first Asian-American man to represent the U.S. in figure skating in 2014. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[clairecloutier]

Regarding Chock/Bates, that was probably the most glaring difference I've seen over four years. In 2014, they were FAST and bombastic performers. Even though Chock didn't have the best bladework, they still manage to show a lot of power.

Four years later, they are far less fast and as Claire said, a lot of the power is gone. It was especially striking in the SD, which is why I think they're scoring so poorly (relatively speaking) in that segment.

Yes! I’ve seen Chock/Bates twice before live, at Natls 2014 and SA 2015, and I agree conpletely—they had much more power and speed back then. Not sure what has happened.

Sorry I missed you at Natls!

 

[chapis]

Well, Madison looks thinner and thinner, so I am not so surprised about it.

 

[livetoskate]

So, I was talking about how half this team is Asian-American with some fellow skating fans, and I was looking back, and I think Alex Shibutani might have been the first Asian-American man to represent the U.S. in figure skating in 2014. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

You mean at the Olympics? I think that is correct. Just trying to think further back, there was David Liu, who is Taiwanese American and competed on behalf of Taiwan back in the late 80s.

 

[gk_891]

So, I was talking about how half this team is Asian-American with some fellow skating fans, and I was looking back, and I think Alex Shibutani might have been the first Asian-American man to represent the U.S. in figure skating in 2014. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Good for him if that's true. He sets a fine example for other Asian American male skaters.

 

[lauravvv]

Where in the program components is speed considered? Or is it in GOE? or both?

It's part of the SS, although it's not expressed/written in a direct way in the criteria for the SS component. It's more like effortless acceleration of speed + varied speed, but I don't remember the exact wording now and have no time to look for it, so I am not sure.

As for GOE, speed seems to be considered when it comes to step sequences, but I also do remember that there was a part in the criteria about speed in detriment to precision not being advised (again, not the precise wording). Meaning, there must be a balance between speed and other qualities, not simply speed for the sake of speed.

 

[chapis]

Here some photos of FD and medal ceremony https://www.flickr.com/photos/144549958@N06/sets/72157662425995747/
And they are in Las Vegas https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdu42suhlap/?taken-by=maiashibutani, some photo shoot or something I guess.

 

[teacakes]

I saw a comment on Twitter (grain of salt) mentioning that they're lobbying to do both segments of the team event. They really needed gold to leave no doubts.

Ultimately, I think it'll come down to whether or not Men is split.

 

[Mrs. P]

Here some photos of FD and medal ceremony https://www.flickr.com/photos/144549958@N06/sets/72157662425995747/
And they are in Las Vegas https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdu42suhlap/?taken-by=maiashibutani, some photo shoot or something I guess.

Alex just announced it! Intel is sponsoring them!
https://twitter.com/AlexShibutani/status/950776114481213441

They are in Vegas for the big Consumer Electronics Show, which is a HUGGGGEEE show that basically shows the latest technologies in things like kitchen appliances, video games etc: https://www.ces.tech/

 

[chapis]

I saw a comment on Twitter (grain of salt) mentioning that they're lobbying to do both segments of the team event. They really needed gold to leave no doubts.

Ultimately, I think it'll come down to whether or not Men is split.

I don´t understand why someone would want to do both segments, they could get a medal anyway with 1 segment, yes, I understand that they have a last chance to show a better performance of the fd before the individual event, but it could be worse if they present a subpar performance.

Alex just announced it! Intel is sponsoring them!
https://twitter.com/AlexShibutani/status/950776114481213441

They are in Vegas for the big Consumer Electronics Show, which is a HUGGGGEEE show that basically shows the latest technologies in things like kitchen appliances, video games etc: https://www.ces.tech/

Cool . It seems their agent is doing a good job.

 

[VGThuy]

If true, it's because they want to be seen as more than individual bronze medal contenders. It's a very Meryl/Charlie move. Sure they were guaranteed first/second place in the TE and thus would have helped with the medal count, but there was also some showmanship there. They still have the highest FD score internationally in the past two seasons of all of the American teams. If they did indeed request it, then I'm sure it's because most skaters would put that they want to do both and it'll be up to the USFS to decide. I'm not sure if it will be granted considering how much all three teams have done internationally.

 

[SidelineSkater]

Selfishly, I want them to do both segments. The FD would let them have another international outing with it (although it could backfire). Someone, somewhere also mentioned if USFS splits the dance teams, there's not a total score other feds will be trying to push or pull down from. Also selfishly, if the Shibs do both, then they can split Mens and Ladies (and Mirai might get to do the TE!).

I think the USFS will split dance assignments, to spread the wealth and not to put all their eggs in one basket. They know the teams are likely 3-4-5, and will be happy to let the chips fall where they may.

 

[chapis]

It probably also depends on who the other countries choose, to know what they are facing and what they need. I guess that's the reason why they have not revealed the decision yet. And probably they are waiting to see the state of the canadian skaters in their Nationals, Russians in Europeans and Japanese in 4cc... wait, Japan are not real contenders , okay off topic but I think if Japan would give more exposure to M/R and more incentive to the skaters to try ice dance they would be a really powerful, their skaters usually have very good skating skills.

 

[Rukia]

I mean I think it's a given the men will split. No way will they chance making Nathan skate both parts. So that leaves splitting dance or ladies. Honestly, if they want to max points they should probably split dance. But Shibs should absolutely be politicking to do both. Get your stuff out and there and get noticed individually.

 

[Spun Silver]

I read in another thread that the Shibs are requesting to do both. But my gut tells me ladies will not be split because Bradie is a machine, and dance will because the teams are too close. I don't think the parallel with Meryl and Charlie works. They were practically invincible that year and the Shibs have not been. On the other hand, I don't think there is a chance in hell they will be left out of the team event. And I think this is best anyway. Let someone else share the pressure, and they'll still get their team medal if a medal is earned.

Huge congrats to them on their Intel endorsement! That must be huge! And their circle of fame widens even more.

On an unrelated note, Mirai just put up a story showing people who liked one of her tweets, among whom was Arden Cho. Mirai's comment: "OMG, Arden Cho even knows I exist?" LOL!

 

[chapis]

I read in another thread that the Shibs are requesting to do both. But my gut tells me ladies will not be split because Bradie is a machine, and dance will because the teams are too close. I don't think the parallel with Meryl and Charlie works. They were practically invincible that year and the Shibs have not been. On the other hand, I don't think there is a chance in hell they will be left out of the team event. And I think this is best anyway. Let someone else share the pressure, and they'll still get their team medal if a medal is earned.

Huge congrats to them on their Intel endorsement! That must be huge! And their circle of fame widens even more.

On an unrelated note, Mirai just put up a story showing people who liked one of her tweets, among whom was Arden Cho. Mirai's comment: "OMG, Arden Cho even knows I exist?" LOL!

Oh, Arden is so sweet, I think Karen is her fan too.

 

[kittyjake5]

Here is IN Fashion Awards for Nationals.

Shibs SP costumes won Gold for Ice Dance. Scroll down.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/09/264447622

 

[Spun Silver]

Here is IN Fashion Awards for Nationals.

Shibs SP costumes won Gold for Ice Dance. Scroll down.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/09/264447622

That is a fabulous photo of the Shibs. Alex looks HAWT in his new shirt (I would call it bronze not beige) and Maia's fiery skirt makes up for the loss of the beautiful original bodice. Well deserved gold medal!

Moving down, I cannot BELIEVE that someone thinks Madison (Chock)'s seaweed dress deserves an award! Especially compared to either the Shibs' jewel-colored FD costumes or this (not a good pic but I loved Maddie (Hubbell)'s dress): https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2018/01/08/x600_q65_p101/US-Championships-Figure-Skating-11.JPG

 

[VGThuy]

Love seeing Maia showing Adam some support when he tweeted about being the first openly gay male U.S. athlete at the Olympics. I didn't know he was the first as I thought Gun Kenworthy came out before him but apparently he came out after his first Olympics.

https://twitter.com/Adaripp/status/950892018552651777

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Video with Lily and Po for MilkBone!

 

[Spun Silver]

Video with Lily and Po for MilkBone!

Lily and PO twizzles!

 

[firstflight]

Ok, I hesitated to post this because I really respect the group of fans who post in this thread-- you are the best ice dance crew on this board. And I deliberately waited a couple of days after the FD to post these thoughts given the "ugh" feelings from the FD stumble.

Are there any other Shib fans who wish they didn't change the middle section to include an entire sentence, instead of a fleeting phrase, of "Fix You?"

When I heard that whole line, I got disconnected a bit from the performance, and after a couple more viewings, I realized what the issue was. It was the nostalgia that they connected on an almost *spiritual* level to that song and FD arrangement. The 2015 Skate Canada knock-your-socks-off impact had everything to do with what they were projecting on the ice in synthesis with the lyrics. It was a revelation and the perfect vehicle for the shoot to the top of the US ranks by Nationals.

So, to refer back to that program with a more extended nod through the editing draws out an even bigger comparison between "Paradise" and "Fix You." To explain what I mean further-- it's like P/C's "Build A Home." The beauty of their emotional connection to those lyrics and sweeping melody line drew in so many fans. The consequence is that the two FD's after that one keep on being compared to it. And, it would be a mistake, IMO, if P/C had decided to include reminders of that FD in this Olympic season FD. Responding emotionally to a program itself is also why W/P brought back "Je Suis Malade." They were at their most connected, again almost on a spiritual level, with that program and wanted to extend the same magic to the audience.

I personally wouldn't be upset at all if Alex and Maia returned to an updated "Fix You" for their Olympic moment, but I respect the opinions of the rest of their fans that this new vehicle will be their best yet.

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree with everything you said. One problem of the Trilogy concept is that it keeps bringing back memories of FY and while the Shibs' skating is mesmerizing, the two subsequent programs aren't really like FY in what made it unique -- being a breakthrough where we finally saw their passion in their skating. I also had the thought of bringing back FY but it's (probably) too late. It would be a bold, but also a desperate move, esp considering that it' only two years old. I mean, if they did it, I'd be thrilled because it would set the place on fire, but I don't think there's time now.

I think most of us here prefer the earlier (esp Skate America) version with just a touch of FY but some thought it worked.

Paradise can be absolutely captivating when they skate it passionately and without mistakes. Not only is it about a dream, it looks dream-like in the way they skate it with such a strong mood in those glowing-like-fire costumes. They don't look like any other team -- they have a unique "twinny" connection. They have certainly had their "ugh" moments with it recently but I'm sure they will rise to the occasion and reach their paradise at the Olympics, as Marina says.

ETA: One problem with Paradise, IMO, is that it depends a lot on that intense dreamlike mood, and when a visible mistake happens the mood is broken. The song goes with the choreography but it's not as highly charged as FY. Whereas with FY, the emotion and music were strong enough to carry them past a stumble. It must be incredibly difficult for Maia and Alex to know they have to skate perfectly not just to beat the competition but to convey their program. It's a lot of pressure. But they probably didn't expect anything else in an Olympic year. Part of me can't wait till it's over!

 

[chapis]

That is a fabulous photo of the Shibs. Alex looks HAWT in his new shirt (I would call it bronze not beige) and Maia's fiery skirt makes up for the loss of the beautiful original bodice. Well deserved gold medal!

Moving down, I cannot BELIEVE that someone thinks Madison (Chock)'s seaweed dress deserves an award! Especially compared to either the Shibs' jewel-colored FD costumes or this (not a good pic but I loved Maddie (Hubbell)'s dress): https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2018/01/08/x600_q65_p101/US-Championships-Figure-Skating-11.JPG

I prefer the red dress, the color is so striking and beautiful.

Video with Lily and Po for MilkBone!

omg, this is soooo adorable!!!

Ok, I hesitated to post this because I really respect the group of fans who post in this thread-- you are the best ice dance crew on this board. And I deliberately waited a couple of days after the FD to post these thoughts given the "ugh" feelings from the FD stumble.

Are there any other Shib fans who wish they didn't change the middle section to include an entire sentence, instead of a fleeting phrase, of "Fix You?"

When I heard that whole line, I got disconnected a bit from the performance, and after a couple more viewings, I realized what the issue was. It was the nostalgia that they connected on an almost *spiritual* level to that song and FD arrangement. The 2015 Skate Canada knock-your-socks-off impact had everything to do with what they were projecting on the ice in synthesis with the lyrics. It was a revelation and the perfect vehicle for the shoot to the top of the US ranks by Nationals.

So, to refer back to that program with a more extended nod through the editing draws out an even bigger comparison between "Paradise" and "Fix You." To explain what I mean further-- it's like P/C's "Build A Home." The beauty of their emotional connection to those lyrics and sweeping melody line drew in so many fans. The consequence is that the two FD's after that one keep on being compared to it. And, it would be a mistake, IMO, if P/C had decided to include reminders of that FD in this Olympic season FD. Responding emotionally to a program itself is also why W/P brought back "Je Suis Malade." They were at their most connected, again almost on a spiritual level, with that program and wanted to extend the same magic to the audience.

I personally wouldn't be upset at all if Alex and Maia returned to an updated "Fix You" for their Olympic moment, but I respect the opinions of the rest of their fans that this new vehicle will be their best yet.

But like someone else said, the program will be seen for a bigger audience, casual fans who never watched Fix you. I doubt we will see changes for OG. I said this in Goldenskate and I will say it here again: I get if some people think that their FD is not very impressive but honestly the FD of C/B and H/D are not impressive either, yes, for their standars those are decent programs, people ask a Fix you level program but it was an iconic program, no C/B and H/D have got a program of that level. I think the 3 teams have more less the same opportunities with their FD, none is so spectacular that they can afford mistakes. When Maia and Alex were skating Fix you, they were not world bronze medal contenders and they were getting standing ovations in Canada, Japan, Barcelona, Nationals, everywhere, I can´t say the same with H/D and C/B this season, even when they have more status than the Shibs had previous to 2015-2016. And this season, Maia and Alex got standing ovation in Russia no less, showing their program for the first time, same Skate America and even here in San José with a visible mistake. On the other hand, Shibs SD definitely is better than those of C/B and H/D and I dont see people asking them change their SD, maybe people is more exigent with Maia and Alex because they have higher expectations with them.

 

[Dobre]

I think it's the most important for the Shibs to be confident with Paradise and skate strong. I still like the initial lift the way it was done at Skate America the best. But mostly they need the practice & confidence that allows their program to really shine. You want to grow a program, and they certainly did that between Cup of Russia & S.A. And then by responding to judges' and/or callers' feedback following the GPF. But you don't want to keep tinkering to the point at which a program becomes uncomfortable. Commit and skate strong.

I saw a comment on Twitter (grain of salt) mentioning that they're lobbying to do both segments of the team event.

"Lobbying" sounds like spin. At some point prior to Nationals, the Shibs & Nathan stated that they are ready to skate both portions of the team event, as did Virtue & Moir. I'd guess all three dance teams from U.S. Nationals would be happy to skate both programs. And it's good for the top athletes to say so for whoever needs to hear. Good to know the athletes with the highest SB scores and/or credentials for their country are honored to skate for their team and happy to help to the best of their ability. But just because those athletes are willing to skate twice doesn't mean that will happen.

My gut still says that the U.S. will put up two dance teams because dance--as a whole--is very deep and based on the SB numbers this season, mathematically, it's still better for the team to split the dance rather than either of the singles disciplines. (Unless the U.S. uses only one athlete for more than two disciplines, in which case my interpretation would be that the U.S. is making the team event a major priority and gunning for the highest possible finish). Even so, the dance scores have been split this season within head-to-head competitions so, again, my gut says the U.S. will put up two teams. Regardless of the decision they make with the men. Nathan, of course, makes the biggest difference for Team USA; but Bradie makes a plausible difference too. Daleman, for example, is likely to skate the ladies LP, and her SB is between Bradie's and Mirai's. So there is a solid argument there--pointwise--for putting Bradie up twice.

We'll see what happens.

 

[firstflight]

But like someone else said, the program will be seen for a bigger audience, casual fans who never watched Fix you. I doubt we will see changes for OG. I said this in Goldenskate and I will say it here again: I get if some people think that their FD is not very impressive but honestly the FD of C/B and H/D are not impressive either, yes, for their standars those are decent programs, people ask a Fix you level program but it was an iconic program, no C/B and H/D have got a program of that level. I think the 3 teams have more less the same opportunities with their FD, none is so spectacular that they can afford mistakes. When Maia and Alex were skating Fix you, they were not world bronze medal contenders and they were getting standing ovations in Canada, Japan, Barcelona, Nationals, everywhere, I can´t say the same with H/D and C/B this season, even when they have more status than the Shibs had previous to 2015-2016. And this season, Maia and Alex got standing ovation in Russia no less, showing their program for the first time, same Skate America and even here in San José with a visible mistake. On the other hand, Shibs SD definitely is better than those of C/B and H/D and I dont see people asking them change their SD, maybe people is more exigent with Maia and Alex because they have higher expectations with them.

I'm not talking the whole program, though-- I was just talking about their decision to extend the "Fix You" part. Clearly, they themselves were not 100% clicking with the program before making changes. They said so. They've indicated that this program now gels for them, which is much more important than my/other fans' opinions since they are the ones skating it. I was just saying that I liked it better before the music change because it was less a throwback to my favorite program of theirs.

Also, it's not only the comparison to H/D and C/Bs' FD's that they're concerned with-- they want to win gold, so P/C and V/M's programs matter more. (And, it's possible to completely root for the Shibs and also appreciate that H/D do have a very strong FD this season.)

 

[chapis]

Also, it's not only the comparison to H/D and C/Bs' FD's that they're concerned with-- they want to win gold, so P/C and V/M's programs matter more. (And, it's possible to completely root for the Shibs and also appreciate that H/D do have a very strong FD this season.)

I don´t doubt it. I was just expressing my opinion giving a example about how a good program can help a team and how it reflect with people, Shibs Fix you getting standing ovations everywhere, their Nationals performance video with almost 400,000 views. Or P/C with Mozart. So, yes, H/D have a good program but I simply don´t see it like a contundent great program that can leave the Shibs behind. About P/C and V/M, well, a lot of people have expressed their opinion about the programs and we all know perfectly the reception they have had.

 

[VGThuy]

Anybody think it's time for a new thread?