Should Eteri be called "The Madame" at this point?

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,317
Well, Big Spender is quite common among young US skaters as well, so I don't think that's limited to the Russians. Most of the kids/coaches pick it for the melody and not the words anyway.

Right, uh huh. :COP: I suppose the fact that the song is commonly picked in the U.S. as well for it's 'melody' makes it okay to use for young female skaters, or better yet for a young female-male pairs team. Everybody uses it, so that makes it okay. Who listens to the lyrics anyway? :duh: Yep, it's a catchy tune. I suppose that's the main reason why the show (from which the song originates), Sweet Charity, was a hit on Broadway. ;) And obviously, you are onto something since Eteri spent six years in the U.S. picking up western cultural influences which she absorbed and took back with her to incorporate into her vision for developing a teenage assembly-line factory of boffo Russian 'baby ballerinas' groomed to take ladies figure skating by storm.

There's nothing wrong with Eteri's vision or her successful results eh, despite the fact some of her methods and practices may go too far. Aside from Eteri's underlying scorched-earth 'all or nothing, my way or the highway approach,' there is obviously something rotten at the core of figure skating's acceptance of exploiting and over-rewarding young female teenagers for overly mature program themes. Still, the exploitation and taking advantage of young people in figure skating is nothing new. It happens all the time in our culture, not just in figure skating. Eteri didn't invent the situation, she's only taking advantage of everything at her disposal to advance her products and to succeed in the sport, beyond her wildest dreams. Probably she doesn't see anything wrong with her methods since she's reaping results and rewards. She likely has never stopped to analyze the exploitative aspects of her methodology that closely.

While I took some enjoyment from watching Alina's exhibition by focusing on the theme and the modern dancerly aspects of her performance, it did not escape my notice that the program is rather mature and does contain sexual overtones. Those who don't see the sexualized aspects of the program are probably immune to cultural bombardment of overly sexualized imagery involving females of all ages. There's nothing wrong with females using their feminine wiles to charm and to entertain an audience (although it should be expected that many people might take issue with the subject's youth in connection with the costume and some of the choreographic moves). In our patriarchal culture there are problematic issues involving misogyny and sexual exploitation of minors that complicate female empowerment. So on the one hand, perhaps Alina is old enough to perform in this way and to exert her female power, without it necessarily having to be seen as a sexualized display. But the culture we live in can and does subvert and exploit such feminized performance art. And in that sense, the performance can be seen as coming close to crossing the line, particularly due to Alina's youthful innocence combined with the costuming and mature themes.

Young teenage females are preyed upon and exploited to an egregious degree in our culture, especially via underground pornography and mercenary kidnapping. As a result, there is a great deal of sensitivity surrounding very young females over-portraying mature themes, or over-displaying aspects of their sexuality when they are still so young and innocent. But sure, seeing such imagery of young teenagers performing in mature ways, as models or dancers or actors or figure skaters, is rather commonplace these days. The intention to titillate the audience with Alina's performance may not have been uppermost in Eteri's mind when she choreographed the program. However, I don't think there's any doubt that Eteri intentionally tries to camouflage the immaturity of her young charges, by any means necessary. We should probably separate the sexual exploitation aspect of the problem (which was not created by Eteri) from issues involving the alledged harshness of her teaching methods. Both conundrums and how they intertwine and impact the sport of figure skating are worthy of discussion, IMO.

As I said earlier: the sport of figure skating needs to check itself and the Lolita-style overtones of it's fixation with rushing young female teenagers into adult roles and premature over-expectations. Clearly, there's an overlap with global cultural acceptance of female exploitation, involving females of all ages.
 
Last edited:

DreamSkates

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,377
I'm basing this off two cases, but I find this woman vile and loathsome.

1. The exhibition she has her 15 year old skater writhing around in sexual poses in a skintight outfit on Olympic ice.

2. What she/her/they did to Yulia Lipnitskaia.
I was very uncomfortable watching her gala program. Saw one of Yulia and similar sexuality, not appropriate or necessary and really not the beautiful skating most of us enjoy.
 

DreamSkates

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,377
Skaters have to audition to get into Tutberidze's group. She has plenty of students who want in the group. She doesn't take a student now unless they are willing to do the work. So, parents and skaters apparently don't have a problem with the program.
Parents are sometimes over-anxious for their children to be the next "star" and can totally ignore or not see red flags, or will deny the possibility of negative outcomes of any kind for their children. That is what is most sad to me. If parents don't send their children to such a training facility, it will not continue. On the other hand, it is the only one turning out champions.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
14,463
Eteri sexualizing children? Seriously...?

Besides Zagitova's awful tiger/catsuit EX this season, I can't think of a single instance of Eteri's students ever being presented in a sexual manner. Lipnitskaya under Eteri was always packaged as a little girl (e.g. the little girl in the red dress, the little girl drawing hearts in the sand), Medvedeva is almost always covered up in long-sleeved costumes with serious Averbukh programs in which she's pretending to do non-sexual stuff like skip ropes, read books, and be deaf, and Eteri's other skaters like Kostornaia, Tarakanova and Trusova all have age-appropriate programs and costumes (granted, Trusova's skating to "Big Spender" this season but the choreography is very much in a cutesy TA-DA style instead of sexual).

Given Eteri's track record of packaging her students as little girls, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Zagitova's awful EX was Zagitova's own idea instead of Eteri's.

Wasn't the child who skated to BIG SPENDER an Eteri?
 

Ohyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
311
I just want alina to leave her for brian who will nurture her and her skating alot more than eteri is with her. rumours true or false its a fact that she favors Evgenia waaay to much over everyone else including alina and never looks happy when alina does well.
 
D

Deleted member 40371

Guest
Lot is sour grapes on display here, if you have problem with program or costumes
Figure skating is definitely not the sport to watch. If modesty is so important then let’s dress everyone like the UAE skaters. In her definition that is the modesty and everyone else is being too sexual.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
73,970
I just want alina to leave her for brian who will nurture her and her skating alot more than eteri is with her. rumours true or false its a fact that she favors Evgenia waaay to much over everyone else including alina and never looks happy when alina does well.
:lol: Sure the Russian Federation will pay for her to go to Orser for training. :lol: And, her family will suddenly become wealthy and able to afford to send her to Canada to live.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,729
I am not sure about child abuse, it's kinda too much. These kids are firstly driven by their parents to the skating school. Anything they do must get permission from their parents first. If anything, we have to ask the parents if they think the way their children are being coached ok or not.

Parents are not always that protective of their children's well-being when fame and fortune calls.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,729
Yeah, that one made me cringe a bit, too.

As for Alina's exhibition, I've seen it 3 or 4 times now and fail to see anything even hinting at sexuality.

Not even the illusion cloth that appears to expose half of her butt? That costume alone was totally inappropriate. I've seen Hollywood actresses use similar "exposure" to get attention on the red carpet. They know sex sells. And the program with her writhing around on the ice? Do you think she thought that up herself at age 15?

ETA: Some comments on YouTube: So sexy. Beautiful body form. All that was missing was a pole.

And some not fit to print.
 
Last edited:

jenniferlyon

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,970
This debate over Eteri's nickname reminds me of John Powers's Catholic school memoirs. The kids had nicknames for several of the nuns, but the meanest one had no nickname because none would have done her justice.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,729
Lot is sour grapes on display here, if you have problem with program or costumes
Figure skating is definitely not the sport to watch. If modesty is so important then let’s dress everyone like the UAE skaters. In her definition that is the modesty and everyone else is being too sexual.

Would you be OK with adult men drooling over your 15 year old daughter?
 

Ohyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
311
Jesus christ people she told adian pitkeev that he skated like a girl, played a part in yulia developing anorexia by having a strict diet, literally she said yulia eats to much thats why i have her on a strict diet. Is ice cold with alina and yall want to pass this off as sour grapes? Get help.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,729
Agree. Didn't see a single sexy vibe in either program of either girl. All four were age appropriate, neither were overtly sexy.

I don't even find the tiger suit thing to be overtly sexual.

Just because you didn't doesn't mean there was a sexual element to Alina's exhibition. The comments on YouTube indicate a lot of people found it to be quite overtly sexual.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,729
Do we know that anyone actually drooled over Zagitova's exhibition programme? Or that that was the intention behind it?

Random men in the street have drooled and made lecherous comments to my female friends. Are they somehow responsible for the actions of those men?

No, but do you think it appropriate to deliberately subject an underage girl to lecherous comments by dressing her in a tight body suit with cut-outs down the side and having her roll around on the ice? And if you read some of the comments on YouTube you will find the equivalence of male drooling over her performance.
 

ChiquitaBanana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,034
I was always bothered by the "décolleté" of her le dress this year. It fitted her just find last year but as she developed, there was more to be contained and that cut made me focussing on if all would stay in place. Bring me the feminist argument that women should wear what they want if they feel great in it, but we're dealing with teenagers and a sporting event. I don't need to see all your charms to convince me you are a good and, of course, mature skater. Call me old school, call me whatever... and take note I come from the skating world, so I have seen many costumes over thee years!
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,639
No, but do you think it appropriate to deliberately subject an underage girl to lecherous comments by dressing her in a tight body suit with cut-outs down the side and having her roll around on the ice? And if you read some of the comments on YouTube you will find the equivalence of male drooling over her performance.

I do not think we should use the very low barometer of youtube comments to change our behaviour, I don't recommend anyone ever read youtube comments, and would recommend anyone disable comments when uploading things to youtube.

I've seen far worse things written about Sasha Cohen doing her fan spiral and i'd never advocate removing the move from skating because some pervert somewhere got a thrill out of it.

All sorts of sports and arts use tight body suits. The illusion fabric cut-outs were absolutely not a good choice, but I don't see her rolling around on the ice as particularly sexual.
 

Nadya

Well-Known Member
Messages
823
But why deliberately subject a young girl to that? Would you want your 15 daughter to be seen as sexual? Maybe it can't be avoided, but why would anyone encourage it by provocative dress and movement?
She will be, whether I want it or not. I can't control what others think.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,547
But why deliberately subject a young girl to that? Would you want your 15 daughter to be seen as sexual? Maybe it can't be avoided, but why would anyone encourage it by provocative dress and movement?
There are people who find any skating dress sexual. For example, men from countries where females are covered from head to toe would think that any tighter fitting dress is sexual. Would that be a reason why you would not allow your daughter do figure skating? Otherwise you would allow her to appear overly sexual...
 

Aerobicidal

Shut that door.
Messages
11,148
There are people who find any skating dress sexual. For example, men from countries where females are covered from head to toe would think that any tighter fitting dress is sexual.
This is why "Moulin Rouge" is the most searched porn term in several countries throughout the Arab world.
 

Roux

Active Member
Messages
56
I do not think we should use the very low barometer of youtube comments to change our behaviour, I don't recommend anyone ever read youtube comments, and would recommend anyone disable comments when uploading things to youtube.

I've seen far worse things written about Sasha Cohen doing her fan spiral and i'd never advocate removing the move from skating because some pervert somewhere got a thrill out of it.
Absolutely, but I am concerned about the intention behind the exhibition and whose idea it was.
 

Roux

Active Member
Messages
56
I have no idea what Eteri is like as I have never met her. But you can not deny her results they are incredible. Be it her current 8 year old boy with his triples, current junior champ with quads or current Olympic champ.
Results are absolutely beside the point. I don't know what she's like either, but the suggestion that she may be abusive to children in her charge does not prompt me to respond "She gets results." Listen to yourself.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
Messages
14,749
Results are absolutely beside the point. I don't know what she's like either, but the suggestion that she may be abusive to children in her charge does not prompt me to respond "She gets results." Listen to yourself.

I must have missed that link that she had been charged with abuse? Is this verified ? If it is yes I totally agree with you as so far all I have seen are rumours ..
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information