Should Eteri be called "The Madame" at this point?

[allezfred]

I remember one of the Canadian commentators called the pattern dance this season "expressing vertically what's desired horizontally" or something like that. I don't like it.

I think you will find it was that noted millennial George Bernard Shaw who said "Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire."

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Also, on the topic of skaters being sexualized...realistically, we could say most skaters use their physical appearances to their advantage on the ice. I have seen much more absurd things than Alina in a catsuit.
Just look at Vanessa James and Morgan Cipres. They're a team known for their hotness. They skate to the 50 Shades of Grey soundtrack.

They are adults. The other is a 15 year old juvenile. See the difference?

 

[soogar]

I really liked the exhibition as well. It was very sensual but I think this is more to the way Alina moves and looks than the actual content of the program. It didn't look much different than a typical rhythmic gymnastics program.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Also, on the topic of skaters being sexualized...realistically, we could say most skaters use their physical appearances to their advantage on the ice. I have seen much more absurd things than Alina in a catsuit.
Just look at Vanessa James and Morgan Cipres. They're a team known for their hotness. They skate to the 50 Shades of Grey soundtrack. They post selfies and get dozens of comments regarding how sexy they are. You could argue that they've been objectified in the sport, even more so than Alina. Adam Rippon has an entire fan club here just to appreciate his abs, which he flaunts shamelessly on Instagram (although I by no means am asking for him to stop). Ashley Wagner did a nude photo shoot for ESPN and got PLENTY of attention from the guys. And pretty much all the ice dancers, over 18 or not, are shaking their bums in skimpy fringed dresses and deep V necks in the Latin short dances.
The truth is, figure skating has become a highly sexualized sport. I'm not going to lie and say it's the same conservative thing my mom watched as a kid. Couples are judged on their "chemistry", and couples who do non-sexual programs are often marked as "cold and distant". I remember one of the Canadian commentators called the pattern dance this season "expressing vertically what's desired horizontally" or something like that. I don't like it.

This is by NO means a defense of Eteri if she is indeed using Alina that way, but I thought I'd just leave this here.

And what is the age difference in this case...

 

[Mad for Skating]

I think you will find it was that noted millennial George Bernard Shaw who said "Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire."

Ah, is that where it came from? I was wondering!

They are adults. The other is a 15 year old juvenile. See the difference?

And what is the age difference in this case...

Yes I do see that. I'm not defending what's going on with Alina AT ALL. What I'm saying is, Alina is in a sport where adult women are using the "sex appeal" to get points (don't tell me you guys have never seen Ashley Wagner's "Sweet Dreams" program). So Alina might be looking at it and thinking "how do I compete with that?" On a lesser degree, ask the Shibs how they compete against teams with smoldering sexual chemistry.
This theory of course is only true if it was Alina's decision. If Eteri is really using her as a sexual object, then charges need to be pressed ASAP.

 

[Twilight1]

I am interested in who finds the polka horizontal desire invoking...

 

[chapis]

I am having a real crush on Eteri, omg, what she is doing with their students is impressive and beyond of imagination, Brian Orser who????!!! And as the real Goddess that she is, she did not bother to accompany Trusova to win the junior Worlds landing her two quadruples

 

[mollymgr]

This is a sport and she has been able to produce champions. I am impressed how well trained her skaters are. They can basically go out and deliver their programs in their sleep. If figure skating things always go in trends, whatever she is doing is working for her students.

 

[Meoima]

I am having a real crush on Eteri, omg, what she is doing with their students is impressive and beyond of imagination, Brian Orser who????!!! And as the real Goddess that she is, she did not bother to accompany Trusova to win the junior Worlds landing her two quadruples

At this point I think Danill might have worked with her students more than Eter herself.

 

[zoe111]

So i've debated whether or not to get into this debate, but after some consideration do have a few thoughts to add. First, when my kid was little she skated to big spender in an exhibition - combined with boogy woogy bugle boy i think. Would never have occured to me or anyone else that it was 'gross'. It's fun, boppy music. I absolutely don't see Trusova's program as being 'sexualised'. She's a little kid dressing up. I think they chose the music because it's easy for a 13 year old to show some choreography, and especially as Trusova is not super right now in the PCS department other than skating skills (and i love her), compared to say Kostornaia and it hides that fact pretty well. I think Eteri's camp actually do a good job picking music for their skaters. Consider Zagitova. Also not very musical, and pretty weak in the PCS department (including the skating skills). The music works because she doesn't really have to show any feeling for it. She raises her arms on music cues and jumps on music cues. It works and it hides her weaknesses. i personally think if she stays in the game, she's going to struggle next year unless they find a similar way to hide her pcs shortcomings.

Second, unless someone on this board actually knows Eteri, i think the accusations have gone over the line into borderline slander. And...there is always, always another side to every story. Julia. I loved her. thought she was amazing. Could see right away as a parent, that she wasn't an easy kid. Too indulged, some unspectacular ways of communicating in public. i get she's shy, but rudeness isn't on in my opinion. One or two of my kids are shy but if they'd had some of the attitude that Julia occsionally put out in public forum they'd be doing kitty litter cleanout for 2 months. I think no one owns the eating disorder issue. Eating disorders are rampant in these types of sports. i have a number of friends with girls who have had/have this issue and they are great parents with no 'mean coach/abusive coach' issues. Sometimes it just happens and no one knows why.

Third, not too many years ago on this board, when both Julia and Serafima were still there, there was some sort of documentary done on Eteri and her group. Everyone on this board was like 'wow, such a supportive atmosphere.. I'd love to be a skater there..'. My how times change. Then on the topic of Serafima, there was all the speculation as to why she left. 'She and Janny were competing for attention and she lost out', Eteri had no patience for her once she matured - she only wants the skinny waifs..Etc. A few years later, the reality is that they didn't have the money/ financials to stay and neither party wanted that split. As an aside, Tsurskaya has matured physically a lot, had inuries, struggled. Eteri has stuck with her and said publicly that while she knows it's hard for Polina with her injury issue, she'll be there for her as long as she wants to skate.

Finally, Eteri is a mom. So she's a hard a** on the ice - the reality is that she has to do that at times because it's her job. As a flip side to her personality, I've seen some videos of her interviewed about her family and daughter, and she's gotten quite teared up and emotional about the difficulties Diana has faced with her hearing issues. So she clearly has a heart.

So... after saying all that, i don't know if Eteri is good, evil, or none of the above but i think lots of folks here are not being objective and putting some veils of their own making over some things that may not be the way they seem. Soap box over.

 

[giselle23]

What about Eteri's partner, Sergei. Doesn't he deserve some of the credit?

 

[chapis]

What about Eteri's partner, Sergei. Doesn't he deserve some of the credit?

Credit in what? in the success of girls, or in the apparent abuse they receive? Now apparently she is a witch and her collaborators are angels who should receive credit for the success of their students.

 

[giselle23]

Credit in what? in the success of girls, or in the apparent abuse they receive? Now apparently she is a witch and her collaborators are angels who should receive credit for the success of their students.

Yikes, I didn't intend to stir up a hornet's nest. Credit for success, of course.

 

[Wyliefan]

I think no one owns the eating disorder issue. Eating disorders are rampant in these types of sports. i have a number of friends with girls who have had/have this issue and they are great parents with no 'mean coach/abusive coach' issues. Sometimes it just happens and no one knows why.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Eteri "owns" Julia's eating disorder. But it is undeniable that she knew about Julia's dangerous eating habits and praised them publicly. We saw the articles with her own words on the subject. I would hope we could all agree that was, at the very least, a major mistake.

 

[kwanatic]

Whatever Eteri's shortcomings or issues you have with her, I don't think anyone can argue with her results. Her skaters are champions. Period. By no means does that excuse some of her more questionable methods but, as to the question why people continue to send their children to her, the answer is crystal clear.

I just read through Alena Kostornaia's interview where she talked about switching to training with Eteri. She said at practice with her previous coaches she would go, do a jump and then skate back over to the boards and stand around. OTOH, in Eteri's group (and I saw this watching the Olympic practices) the skaters do far more jumping and drilling during practices. Alena also said that she had to get used to do full perfect run-thrus daily and that if she missed a jump she'd have to do it again---not the jump...the entire program. After a while she said she could get through an entire run-thru of her program and barely be out of breath. That seems insane especially when you consider the way we see/hear of other skaters training (partial run-thrus, marking jumps and spins, etc.). It's no wonder so many of the Russian skaters are so much better than everyone else...

Eteri's girls are conditioned and trained to the nth degree and that's why they are topping podiums on every level. Her methods are a bit harsh and questionable, but they don't seem to be deterring students and their parents from joining her group.

 

[rfisher]

Skaters don't get to stop in the middle of a competitive program and have a do over. You skate the entire program and then do the do over. I don't think that coaching strategy is bad in the least. One thing about Tutbridze's skaters is they are prepared for competition. They aren't nervous. They know what they're doing and go out and do it. If they make a mistake, they have cool heads and know how to not let that be a problem. Zag missed the combo during the Olympic fs, but she just calmly did it later. Trusova didn't let the excitement of landing 2 quads derail the rest of the program (which in and of itself was amazing).

I find it amusing that a lot of the anti-Eteri sentiment comes from posters who have clear favorites who are being beaten by the Tiger Women.

 

[Willin]

@rfisher My anti-Eteri sentiment has nothing to do with her skaters beating my favorites. My anti-Eteri sentiment comes from the place that I think all coaches should be treating their athletes well, and there's definitely some sketchy stuff going on, particularly in the weight department.

On the other hand, I do like the runthrough thing. I think that's a great way to ensure skaters are not only in shape (ie. doing more than one runthrough a day) and that they're getting used to doing clean programs and not stopping for a fall.

 

[VGThuy]

Skaters don't get to stop in the middle of a competitive program and have a do over. You skate the entire program and then do the do over. I don't think that coaching strategy is bad in the least. One thing about Tutbridze's skaters is they are prepared for competition. They aren't nervous. They know what they're doing and go out and do it. If they make a mistake, they have cool heads and know how to not let that be a problem. Zag missed the combo during the Olympic fs, but she just calmly did it later. Trusova didn't let the excitement of landing 2 quads derail the rest of the program (which in and of itself was amazing).

That is one thing I really noticed about Zag and Med. They are so well-prepared and trained for their competitions that I don't fear that something out-of-the-ordinary will phase them. The fact that Zag missed her combo during the Olympic FS and then just added it later really shows that. It's also not like Zag is super woman as she has messed up in the past but she didn't let those mistakes affect her for the rest of the competition and was still able to do extremely well this season despite not being perfect. Zag putting the combo later reminded me of Kwan at 1995 Worlds where she missed putting her first Lutz in a combo and ended up adding it to her second Lutz because she knew she had to in order for that second Lutz to count. No Odaing for her. Carroll and Kwan were very prepared for that competition and it showed.

 

[rfisher]

I think that was also a point of contention between Julia and Eteri. Julia wanted to stop after a mistake and start over from that point. Eteri wanted her to keep going and either make a correction later or think about the error. You could see the problems in competition. If Julia made a mistake, she lost focus and it was downhill from that point on. She talked about how she and Eteri argued about this quite often. That was always an issue with Pogo and Tsareva as well. Radionova, OTOH, is much more like an Eteri student in that she keeps her head and would correct the combo later in the free. I can't remember how many times she'd make a mistake on the opening combo, but would correct later. That is a difference in both the skater and the way they practice every day.

 

[mag]

That is one thing I really noticed about Zag and Med. They are so well-prepared and trained for their competitions that I don't fear that something out-of-the-ordinary will phase them. The fact that Zag missed her combo during the Olympic FS and then just added it later really shows that. It's also not like Zag is super woman as she has messed up in the past but she didn't let those mistakes affect her for the rest of the competition and was still able to do extremely well this season despite not being perfect. Zag putting the combo later reminded me of Kwan at 1995 Worlds where she missed putting her first Lutz in a combo and ended up adding it to her second Lutz because she knew she had to in order for that second Lutz to count. No Odaing for her. Carroll and Kwan were very prepared for that competition and it showed.

I believe that their preparation is also reflected in their PCS mark. When they take the ice the judges are completely relaxed. They can sit back and watch a program without worry that there will be a meltdown. The calm relaxed state affects the way they view the program. It is unavoidable. PCS goes up.