Articles confirming new Chinese pairs Yu/Zhang and Peng/Jin

[feraina]

That is such old news.

For all the politiking in skating, sometimes you really just have to go with Occam's razor, and conclude that it's more likely that a pair that skated well was rewarded more so than a group of judges and tech specialists decided to stick it to Didier.

I don't really have anything of interest to say regarding the actual topic of this thread

Oh, I had known about the lies before, but I had never actually heard Didier say it. He just said it so breezily and absolutely without shame, like it's all normal, wouldn't you do it too in my situation if you were as clever as me? It just makes me question how someone with that kind of moral attitude could be trusted to run the ISU. *sigh*

 

[feraina]

She is a 5-time world champion (not just 3)- I assume you are quoting someone who made this error.

The news report actually mis-stated it. Maybe they put all their energy into defending the decision and didn't have time left for fact-checking? Or maybe 3-time world champion sounds more comparable to a single-OSM than a 5-time world champion?

 

[barbarafan]

Well, given the general fandom for Didier Gailhaguet, I could see some political motivations. Not saying that that's what I think happened, but just offering one possibility. Speaking of DG, he had the temerity in the Radiolab podcast of Bonaly to state explicitly that he made up all the stories about her exotic origin and childhood in order to get more hype & attention. Sorry for the OT comment.

Back to Y/Z, some Chinese fans are discussing what banners to display at competitions where Y/Z appear. Some suggested cheering for Y/J, but others said that would make it even more awful for Yu. Someone else suggested to only cheer for Yu, and that got some support. I think that's not a bad idea: one can directly support Yu while also expressing sympathy for her situation this way. If I could attend any competitions, I'd consider making a banner like that.

Thank-you for the info...I didn't want to suggest anything as who knows what could create repercussions on Yu and I have no real knowledge nor experience with Europe and
Asia to draw from ( Caucasian Canadian- also not well travelled). Some things you have to live with to truly understand.

 

[feraina]

No matter what she says, CSA will always be suspected of directing the interview.

Of course people and organizations care about their own image, but for pete's sake this is only sports. Of course CSA wants Yu to watch what she says. At the same time, Yu is allowed to share some of her feelings in the interview.

For those who haven't been to China, the days when people look behind their back whenever they open their mouths are 20 years ago. That doesn't mean freedom of speech exists, far from it. But people can say more things than 20 years ago without getting in trouble, esp when this is just sports

Yes, people are freer now than 20 years ago. But this was on CCTV, the biggest state TV program broadcasting to the whole country, always toeing the official lines, actually leading it so that the provincial and privately-owned stations (are there even private stations?) can follow and self-censor. No way this wasn't some kind of deliberate, carefully-organized piece from CSA to cheer for the new teams. Her interview was definitely edited, and she could have even been handed cue cards to read off of. I'm surprised how much they did let her reveal; they seem to have totally misjudged what kind of effect this kind of broadcast would have on public perception. I would say that the only effects this report seems to have generated, judging by the Chinese forums, are:
-- opinions of Zhao fell drastically
-- opinions of Zhang are lower than ever
-- all the worst things the fans suspected seem to be proven true (Yu/Jin didn't want the swap, Yu/Jin had no idea until they were told, those with the power to enact the decision started planning it a long time ago, Zhang is confident he's going to skate until 2022 -- so never mind a fair qualification process; and Zhao was squarely in the middle of it)
-- that there is no convincing technical or strategic reason that has escaped the fans thus far (as all the reasons Zhao listed hold no water)

Regardless of what hand Zhao had in the partner-swapping decision, one can definitely say that the PR was done really badly this time. Although given the disastrous nature of the decision, I'm not sure how they could possibly have proceeded with it in order to make it look better. I mean, the only way the fans could've accepted it calmly is if Yu/Jin had time to consider it and decide breaking up and re-teaming was the best idea. But I just don't see how they could've possibly persuaded Yu/Jin to *choose* to split if they actually had any say in this at all. So I'm not sure even the best PR firm could've saved them this time...

 

[Jun Y]

Zhao Hongbo's interview:

As far back as half a year ago, this thing [ie, partner swap] was being considered. To switch partners, the goal is very clear: 2018 and 2022 Winter Olympics. The decision was difficult. You all and many people have seen Team China's results this year's World Championships. Except for Sui and Han who are still in the top tier, the other two couples are now in a downward slide. Therefore there may be some adjustments. The main issue is to consider the potential of the athletes' development and the space of future growth. Therefore this decision had to be made. A lot of debates were made. Now changes need to be attempted.

(Narration about the "leadership" and "coaching team" with no names named. Interviews of Yu and Zhang.)

This time when we were in Canada, choreography lasted over 20 days. They all got two new programs. The two most famous choreographers in the world gave high approvals to the two new teams and the changes they brought. Peng Cheng ... [now] with Jin Yang ... was perhaps a far distance behind Zhang Hao, from age .. including performance and tension in the action ... had some pressure. Now [she's] with Jin Yang, in terms of performance style, will see big changes. And perhaps they are easier to relate to each other. Including Peng Cheng's confidence in SBS jumps. Including Xiaoyu and Big Hao, uh, Zhang Hao, are the same [unclear what's "the same"]. In techniques and choreography, they [unclear who] made apparent adjustments. The two world-class choreographers, they understand what this decision is, uh, like.

<End of interview>

If some of the passages above make no sense, please don't blame me. This is what he said. They make no more sense in Chinese than in English. The evasiveness is typical Chinese bureaucratic talk. I'm quite impressed by his mastery of the skills.

******

I missed a short blurb from Xiaoyu in the previous post, which is shown near the end of the video. She said, "I don't dare to think, but I want to do, uh, break through my [own limits?]. But in reality, I don't dare to set a very far or great dreams, uh, goals for myself."

 

[Jun Y]

Yes, people are freer now than 20 years ago.

No, people in China are LESS free today than they were 20 years ago. They also have less access to information outside of China. The phenomenon that online skating fans have not been shut down completely is a sign that the partner-swapping decision did not come from the very top. Otherwise we would not be hearing a peep of complaints.

 

[Spun Silver]

Boy, I would have liked to see Ted Flatt ask one of the two world's greatest choreographers, David Wilson, about this in their recent interview (@Karpenko). Even if all David did was squirm and look at the ceiling (as with the qs about Sasha, LOL). He is super-cautious but his body language does make his feelings known.

Thank you so much for the translations, Jun Y. Xiaoyu is not sounding like an Olympic champion in the making here.

And feraina, I am glad to hear the Chinese fans are not falling for this and are still making noise.

 

[Spun Silver]

No, people in China are LESS free today than they were 20 years ago. They also have less access to information outside of China. The phenomenon that online skating fans have not been shut down completely is a sign that the partner-swapping decision did not come from the very top. Otherwise we would not be hearing a peep of complaints.

What do you mean by the very top?

 

[Jun Y]

What do you mean by the very top?

I mean the top leadership of the national bureau for sports. They wouldn't know anything about the particulars of figure skating and can be persuaded that this partner swap is good for Team China's OGM.

I don't know, nor do I want to speculate, who thinks what and why, who's happy and who's angry. I just wonder, if this swap is such a logical and sensible decision to improve Team China's chance for 2022 OGM, why all the sneaking around? Why the fake test skate? Why not announce the decision to the world the moment it's made? Why the mumbling and delay? If this is indisputably for the collective good of the team, why are most people not convinced? Is Yu Xiaoyu so selfish and dumb that she would rather be a mediocre skater with Jin Yang than to be the one to win Team China's OGM?

 

[jlai]

Yes, people are freer now than 20 years ago. But this was on CCTV, the biggest state TV program broadcasting to the whole country, always toeing the official lines, actually leading it so that the provincial and privately-owned stations (are there even private stations?) can follow and self-censor. No way this wasn't some kind of deliberate, carefully-organized piece from CSA to cheer for the new teams. Her interview was definitely edited, of...

I am not surprised they let her speak so much even though this is state owned media. Why? This is sport, and a juicy story at that. This is not high level state scandal. If they are going to make this sound like propaganda too, who watches tV? State owned media need viewership too.

As for whether China is not more free I am sure one can find a measure by which it is not. In general common people talk about more sensitive stuff without worrying about trouble. That is all I meant.

 

[feraina]

I am not surprised they let her speak so much even though this is state owned media. Why? This is sport, and a juicy story at that. This is not high level state scandal. If they are going to make this sound like propaganda too, who watches tV? State owned media need viewership too.

Ahh. But even if it's just sport it still gives me hope. It wasn't long ago when you couldn't talk frankly even about sport. I'm especially glad that there's a strong consensus among the Chinese fans that individual desires and dreams are worth respecting, and that everyone has the right to think for themselves and express their opinions. As long as the young people (Chinese skating fans who post online are typically quite young) feel this way, even just about a small sport, then there's hope that one day they will not stand for a political system that ignores these things.

 

[pinky166]

I just listened to it again and fixed a few small things above.

Very disappointed with the whole thing. Zhao comes off as unwise and Zhang as a hypocrite. And poor Yu just looks miserable but trying her best to be positive.

Yu is such a star. Like seriously she has so much potential to be amazing, her posture is phenomenal and I love the delicate, balletic quality of her skating. She hits some great positions in spins and lifts too, and unlike a lot of the other lovely artistic pair ladies, she can actually jump well (most of the time).

I'm very sad to see this happen to her but I hope for her sake that she can find success with Zhang and finally gain the recognition, respect, and World assignments she and Jin deserved but were not given over the past few seasons. Zhang is a good partner so I hope they can get along and do well so her talent doesn't go to waste.

 

[casken]

I wish there was some way to organize a serious "Free Yu" campaign between Chinese and non Chinese fans. I don't want Zhao to coach at a single event, or give a single interview, without being asked about forcing her to skate with Zhang.

I honestly think Zhao is genuinely shocked that there is this much interest in the story, to the point where they had to sit down an give a joint interview to explain themselves, especially outside of China. Since he acknowledges thinking about giving Yu to Zhang for at least a year and a half prior to this, he probably kept Y&J in junior events and out of worlds for the past two seasons to prevent them from having a following so no one would care about the split.

It explains the almost total silence until they were pretty much forced to admit what happened. I don't think they thought they would have to explain themselves this much.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wish there was some way to organize a serious "Free Yu" campaign between Chinese and non Chinese fans. I don't want Zhao to coach at a single event, or give a single interview, without being asked about forcing her to skate with Zheng.

I honestly think Zhao is genuinely shocked that there is this much interest in the story, to the point where they had to sit down an give a joint interview to explain themselves, especially outside of China. Since he acknowledges thinking about giving Yu to Zheng for at least a year and a half prior to this, he probably kept Y&J in junior events and out of worlds for the past two seasons to prevent them from having a following so no one would care about the split.

It explains the almost total silence until they were pretty much forced to admit what happened. I don't think they thought they would have to explain themselves this much.

It's easy to start a campaign, and FSUers could translate it in to different languages. Not so easy to get signatures though. See "Let the Skaters Skate."
https://www.change.org/

 

[barbarafan]

I wish there was some way to organize a serious "Free Yu" campaign between Chinese and non Chinese fans. I don't want Zhao to coach at a single event, or give a single interview, without being asked about forcing her to skate with Zheng.

I honestly think Zhao is genuinely shocked that there is this much interest in the story, to the point where they had to sit down an give a joint interview to explain themselves, especially outside of China. Since he acknowledges thinking about giving Yu to Zheng for at least a year and a half prior to this, he probably kept Y&J in junior events and out of worlds for the past two seasons to prevent them from having a following so no one would care about the split.

It explains the almost total silence until they were pretty much forced to admit what happened. I don't think they thought they would have to explain themselves this much.

i thought it was half a year ..not year and a half they were considering it?

half a year makes sense because at the TEB competition-nov 12th during practice Zheng threw Peng to the moon again and she fell back and hit her head on the ice. Zheng stopped and went back, helped her up and skated her over to the coach at the boards...So he was showing some.... responsibility as a partner at that point. Someone from Russia checked her out and she went back to practice.

 

[SkateSand]

...at the TEB competition-nov 12th during practice Zheng threw Peng to the moon again and she fell back and hit her head on the ice. Zheng stopped and went back, helped her up and skated her over to the coach at the boards...So he was showing some.... responsibility as a partner at that point. Someone from Russia checked her out and she went back to practice.

I had a completely different reaction to the TEB practice. I was horrified at how both her coach and her partner talked to each other and pretty much ignored her while she was clearly holding her head in pain from hitting the ice. It took someone not even on the Chinese team to see that she was not doing well and to go get her some ice for her head. And it made me wonder if that was how Peng was treated at home at practice, when not even the whole world was watching. I fear for Yu.

 

[barbarafan]

I had a completely different reaction to the TEB practice. I was horrified at how both her coach and her partner talked to each other and pretty much ignored her while she was clearly holding her head in pain from hitting the ice. It took someone not even on the Chinese team to see that she was not doing well and to go get her some ice for her head. And it made me wonder if that was how Peng was treated at home at practice, when not even the whole world was watching. I fear for Yu.

ITA as far as their lack of caring but the point I was making was Zheng actually stopped skating ,picked her up and brought her to the coach as opposed to just ignoring her fall like at world's practice.So maybe they had not really decided at that point to do away with the partnership...Yes it made me sick that while she was being examined SHen and Zheng were laughing together ..I guess they have more in common age wise. So yes maybe this is the sort of thing that went on at practices away from the public eye..I personally do not think the chinese pairs should be anywhere without a doctor and an ambulance on standby.

 

[jlai]

ITA as far as their lack of caring but the point I was making was Zheng actually stopped skating ,picked her up and brought her to the coach as opposed to just ignoring her fall like at world's practice.So maybe they had not really decided at that point to do away with the partnership...Yes it made me sick that while she was being examined SHen and Zheng were laughing together ..I guess they have more in common age wise. So yes maybe this is the sort of thing that went on at practices away from the public eye..I personally do not think the chinese pairs should be anywhere without a doctor and an ambulance on standby.

Who are Shen and Zheng?

 

[Xela M]

Who are Shen and Zheng?

Coach and partner?

 

[Sylvia]

"Zheng" is supposed to be Hao Zhang. Xue Shen doesn't travel these days so I assume Shen was a typo and Hongbo Zhao was meant.

Thanks to @Jun Y for taking the extra time to translate Xiaoyu Yu's and Hongbo Zhao's TV interview clips.

I honestly think Zhao is genuinely shocked that there is this much interest in the story, to the point where they had to sit down an give a joint interview to explain themselves, especially outside of China.

I don't think Zhao was thinking about reaching an audience outside of China with his interview.

 

[barbarafan]

"Zheng" is supposed to be Hao Zhang. Xue Shen doesn't travel these days so I assume Shen was a typo and Hongbo Zhao was meant.

Thanks to @Jun Y for taking the extra time to translate Xiaoyu Yu's and Hongbo Zhao's TV interview clips.

I don't think Zhao was thinking about reaching an audience outside of China with his interview.

Sorry sylvia.....yes by "Zheng i did mean Hao Zhang but by Xue Shen ..if it is not her then it is the lady in the clip and I do not know who she is...Hongbo Zhao was looking after Peng with the help of the Russian and the Frenchman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HanrHjJNkn8

 

[MR-FAN]

I've been feeling better lately by fantasizing 6 years of disappointing results for Yu/Zhang, him retiring, her teaming up with Jin again, and Yu/Jin winning everything.

 

[clairecloutier]

Sorry sylvia.....yes by "Zheng i did mean Hao Zhang but by Xue Shen ..if it is not her then it is the lady in the clip and I do not know who she is...Hongbo Zhao was looking after Peng with the help of the Russian and the Frenchman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HanrHjJNkn8

There's a female coach who travels with the team and usually appears in the kiss-n-cry with Hongbo Zhao and the skaters. She's quite young-looking. I think she's the person you meant. I don't know her name though. I've often wondered who she is, and what her background is (i.e., is she a former skater?).

 

[Sylvia]

There's a female coach who travels with the team and usually appears in the kiss-n-cry with Hongbo Zhao and the skaters. She's quite young-looking. I think she's the person you meant. I don't know her name though. I've often wondered who she is, and what her background is (i.e., is she a former skater?).

"Jia Qi" is listed as a secondary coach in Peng/Zhang's and Yu/Jin's ISU bios. Could this be Jiaqi LI who skated pairs until 2008? http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00008812.htm

 

[barbarafan]

There's a female coach who travels with the team and usually appears in the kiss-n-cry with Hongbo Zhao and the skaters. She's quite young-looking. I think she's the person you meant. I don't know her name though. I've often wondered who she is, and what her background is (i.e., is she a former skater?).

Yes..that is who I meant ..I just assumed it was Zhao's partner..Before we had a lot of live streaming on the internet I relied on cdn tv sports which usually would just show the Canadians competing and the highlights of the winners..therefore I am a little lost in competitors no longer active.

 

[feraina]

"Jia Qi" is listed as a secondary coach in Peng/Zhang's and Yu/Jin's ISU bios. Could this be Jiaqi LI who skated pairs until 2008? http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00008812.htm

It's amazing she's coaching the national team while someone like Zhang Dan can't get a job anywhere within the state-sponsored system. Maybe it was a matter of timing, maybe Li was available when Zhao was looking for an assistant coach. Or maybe the two of them get along well personally. I don't begrudge her this job, I just don't understand how someone like Zhang Dan could've ended up unemployed for two years after retiring. She was the strongest jumper China ever had in terms of female pair skaters, and that's something Chinese female skaters are generally weak in. The whole Peng/Zhang breakup was mainly due to Peng not being able to land SBS jumps. It boggles my mind... Well, many things about CSA boggle my mind, so I guess this is really hardly any surprise.

 

[jlai]

Coaching and success as a skater are not positively correlated. There's Orser who was a great skater who became coach. Then there is Kori Ade, Tom Z, etc.

That said, yes, I am sure a lot of things in China come down to guanxi

 

[Spun Silver]

I've been feeling better lately by fantasizing 6 years of disappointing results for Yu/Zhang, him retiring, her teaming up with Jin again, and Yu/Jin winning everything.

Six years is too long. I'm feeling better by reasoning that Hao will likely break down by 2019 because he will be 43 by then if looks mean anything (a mere 37 if the official story is true). Nothing against him until recently, and I am all for older athletes pushing the envelope (go, Aliona!) but not if it means destroying younger athletes' careers. And he does have a history of injury so it seems improbable he will make it to his home Olympics in any shape that would make China proud. That is thousands of lifts and throw triples and quads from now. There is only so long a pair guy can go, ask Hongbo or Jian Tong.

 

[Jessica]

Yes..that is who I meant ..I just assumed it was Zhao's partner..Before we had a lot of live streaming on the internet I relied on cdn tv sports which usually would just show the Canadians competing and the highlights of the winners..therefore I am a little lost in competitors no longer active.

I'm really sorry you didn't get to see much of S/Z during their competition days. From 2003-2010, they were so exciting to watch and to this day are my favorite pair team ever.
Information on Shen Xue:
Shen Xue (Chinese: 申雪; pinyin: Shēn Xuě; born November 13, 1978) is a female Chinesepair skater. With her partner and husband Zhao Hongbo, Shen is the 2010Olympic champion, the 2002 & 2006 Olympic bronze medalist, a three-time (2002, 2003 & 2007) World champion, a three-time (1999, 2003 & 2007) Four Continents Champion and a six-time (1998, 1999, 2003, 2004, 2006 & 2009) Grand Prix Final champion.

I saw this live and still get chills when I watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kql3sf_crA&NR=1

I really hate to hear that Zhao could have been part of this switch. I never recall seeing Shen in the K&C with any Chinese pairs so hopefully she was not a part of it.

 

[jlai]

Six years is too long. I'm feeling better by reasoning that Hao will likely break down by 2019 because he will be 43 by then if looks mean anything (a mere 37 if the official story is true). Nothing against him until recently, and I am all for older athletes pushing the envelope (go, Aliona!) but not if it means destroying younger athletes' careers. And he does have a history of injury so it seems improbable he will make it to his home Olympics in any shape that would make China proud. That is thousands of lifts and throw triples and quads from now. There is only so long a pair guy can go, ask Hongbo or Jian Tong.

I think part of the problem IS that older Chinese pairs do tend to do decently, so they need a pair that fails for them to see that age works against Zhang.