Articles confirming new Chinese pairs Yu/Zhang and Peng/Jin

[Sylvia]

Starting a new thread now that the split of Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN has been confirmed officially and the new pairs of YU / Hao ZHANG and Cheng PENG / JIN have been formed.
Re-posting from the Chinese skating news thread today:

There have been a few new articles today regarding the split, all arguing for the technical advantages of the new Y/Z pairing: eg Zhang is amazing and his partner Peng's inability to land jumps was the limiting factor, Y/J have no future because they haven't acquired a quad throw or twist, Yu is the most consistent jumper among the Chinese pairs ladies including Sui, and together Yu/Zhang can acquire not only a quad twist and quad throw, but a abs 3T-3T. And oh yeah, both Peng and Jin are weaker partners, so they don't have much of a future!

It's written by people who clearly know skating, but there are no quotes from skaters, coaches, or officials. It looks like CSA or whoever orchestrating this whole thing is trying to persuade everyone it's a good idea, or at least a reasonable idea. And it also looks like P/J will not get decent treatment in terms of training, choreography, and opportunities. So for anyone hoping to see them succeed, they may not get many opportunities. It's not under CSA's control to ensure Y/Z achieve top 6 or an Olympic medal, or that they can learn both quads and a 3-3 (!), but it sure is within their control to make P/J look worse than Y/Z, in order to make it seem like the partner-swapping was a good idea.

http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2016-04-27/detail-ifxrpvcy4559538.d.html
(ETA: Google translation: Understanding Why split pairs of two main)

http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2016-04-27/detail-ifxrpvea1287348.d.html
(ETA: Google translation: Yu Xiaoyu / Zhang Hao in front of a lot of difficulties)

ETA @feraina's post with translation yesterday (and subsequent discussion): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-15#post-4784312

I'll translate just the relevant portion of the article.
花样滑冰在世锦赛后也进行了调整，将彭程/张昊与于小雨/金杨的组合拆分，重新组合，任洪国介绍说，这也是借鉴德国、俄罗斯“强强联手”的成功经验，将 于小雨与张昊搭档，而彭程与金杨组合。“这次世锦赛中国双人滑的成绩一般，需要做一些调整。”任洪国表示，尽管队员刚开始有点接受不了，但为了队伍成绩的 提升，任洪国期待于小雨与张昊的组合能够尽快磨合，在明年世锦赛上冲击前六名。

There has been a re-organization of the figure skating team after the World Championship, Peng/Zhang and Yu/Jin are to be split up and re-paired. Ren Honguo explains, this is borrowing the successful experience of German and Russian re-pairing strategy. "Chinese pairs results were so-so at this World Championship, so some reorganization is needed," says Ren. Although team member(s) were not initially able to accept the changes, for the sake of achieving better results for the Team, Ren hopes/expects that the new team of Yu and Zhang can quickly regroup and achieve top 6 at next year's World Championship.

(Note: Mr. Hongguo Ren is the current president of the Chinese Skating Association.)

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

...don't know what to think...

But all the best to the new teams

 

[barbarafan]

...don't know what to think...

But all the best to the new teams

Starting a new thread now that the split of Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN has been confirmed officially and the new pairs of YU / Hao ZHANG and Cheng PENG / JIN have been formed.
Re-posting from the Chinese skating news thread today:

http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2016-04-27/detail-ifxrpvcy4559538.d.html

http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2016-04-27/detail-ifxrpvea1287348.d.html

ETA @feraina's post with translation yesterday (and subsequent discussion): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-15#post-4784312


(Note: Mr. Hongguo Ren is the current president of the Chinese Skating Association.)

So apparently they are promising Yu will do a quad twist, quad throw and sbs 3t3t...and what happens to Yu if she is not able to do this or if she is badly injured trying to do this?

 

[oleada]

This is such a dumb, short sighted move. I know they want to imitate the success of V/T and Sav/Mas but they're forgetting that those teams wanted to skate together. And Zhang is no Aliona. He's not even Trankov.



I appreciate @feraina 's translations and insights throughout this whole mess.

 

[mag]

So apparently they are promising Yu will do a quad twist, quad throw and sbs 3t3t...and what happens to Yu if she is not able to do this or if she is badly injured trying to do this?

She will be pushed aside and another skater will take her place. Now if Zhang gets injured, she will just have to sit out the year and wait for him to recover.

 

[oleada]

She will be pushed aside and another skater will take her place. Now if Zhang gets injured, she will just have to sit out the year and wait for him to recover.

Yup. It will always be her fault and not Zhang's

I would root for Peng/Jin to kick ass but I doubt internal politics would ever let them beat Yu/Zhang, just like Yu/Jin finished behind even the Wangs at the "test skate" this year.

 

[Vash01]

I am not sure this is a good move, but if the Chinese fed thinks so, good luck to them. I thought they had a pretty strong showing, with S&H winning the silver. P&Z were not bad; they just had one bad fall. W&W are still new, I believe. I thought Yu-Jin was the pair people were raving about.

 

[vesperholly]

I thought Yu-Jin was the pair people were raving about.

They were. I was very surprised they weren't on the World team after qualifying for GPF and then bronze at 4CC, but I guess we know why.

 

[aftershocks]

Oh, no! Why???

Yu/Jin were so good together technically and aesthetically, and they were held back. Why? So that favored Sui/Han could be the ones to improve their aesthetics over the past few years and vault to the top internationally to become the clear number 1 Chinese team? I can't see how messing with Yu/Jin and Peng/Zhang is going to help unless Yu and Jin decide to be good soldiers and put country before their own hearts and desires. This is sad. And I can see it backfiring. Anyway, I hope it backfires, but it might not if the skaters are able to adjust.

Actually, Yu/Jin likely had no choice. In fact, they were probably being held back recently as punishment for at first refusing to be broken up.

 

[oleada]

Oh, no! Why???

Yu/Jin were so good together technically and aesthetically, and they were held back. Why? So that favored Sui/Han could be the ones to improve their aesthetics over the past few years and vault to the top internationally to become the clear number 1 Chinese team? I can't see how messing with Yu/Jin and Peng/Zhang is going to help unless Yu and Jin decide to be good soldiers and put country before their own hearts and desires. This is sad. And I can see it backfiring. Anyway, I hope it backfires, but it might not if the skaters are able to adjust.

Actually, Yu/Jin likely had no choice. In fact, they were probably being held back recently as punishment for at first refusing to be broken up.

Sui/Han have definitely been held back in the past in favor of other teams. I don't think this has much to do with them.

If you read the China thread, you'll get the whole story but basically Yao Bin/Chinese Fed/Zhang think Zhang is super duper great and can be an Olympic champion if only he didn't have such a dud as Peng as a partner. What Yu wants or the potential the team showed did not matter

 

[aftershocks]

Thanks @oleada. Still dumbfounding with the chemistry and potential Yu/Jin possessed together. In any case, Sui/Han could hold their own with their wonderful improvements, but I also think if Yu/Jin had been nurtured they would have been able to vie with Sui/Han over time.

What's that in the Chinese reports about Jin being a weak partner?!

And methinks Mr. Zhang's 'greatness' is a thing of the past. He's now more 'super duper older', which happens to us all with the passage of time. Zhang was always looking on the ice like Peng's dad, but they did seem to have some potential in the early going. Probably all went to hell in a handbasket (especially for inexperienced Peng) due to pressures that were placed upon them.

 

[feraina]

(Note: Mr. Hongguo Ren is the current president of the Chinese Skating Association.)

Actually, he is the Communist Party Secretary of the Chinese Department of Athletics Winter Sports Administration Center. Something like that. I don't know what their official name is in English. They govern and fund all the winter sports including figure skating.

Every state organization in China has a communist party secretary. I've read in the Western press that it's the party secretaries in every organization that holds the real power, including behind political positions like mayors and governors, and ceo's in state owned companies. But I don't know how much that is really true.

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ I have no doubt Ren holds that top position; he is listed as the CSA President here: http://www.isu.org/en/about-isu/member-federations/chn-chinese-skating-association
He also used to be an ISU Championship dance judge (1999, 2005 & 2007 Worlds, for example).

 

[feraina]

^^^ I have no doubt Ren holds that top position; he is listed as the CSA President here: http://www.isu.org/en/about-isu/member-federations/chn-chinese-skating-association
He also used to be an ISU Championship dance judge (1999, 2005 & 2007 Worlds, for example).

Oh that's interesting. In the article he's referred to as the party secretary. No mention of him being the CSA president. I don't think that's a well publicized fact, as he's not thought of as a central figure among Chinese fans. Now I'm curious what other public statements he has made in the past.

 

[feraina]

The latest 'leak' on Chinese forum is that, due to Yu's opposition almost everyone gave up the idea of the re-pairing, but besides Zhang's insistence, the one person who strongly supported the move was Ren Hongguo. Maybe that's why he's the only person who's given quotes to the media.

I also found some old articles on him. He apparently played a key role in the Beijing bid for the 2022 Olympics, and was said to have been 'shaking with excitement' when the decision came down to award it to Beijing. He also said it meant 'a tremendous responsibility.'
http://news.xinhuanet.com/sports/2015-07/31/c_128081109.htm

He was also quoted in a different article (which I can't find right now, sorry) saying that there are certain winter sports (a long list including figure skating) in which the state sponsorship should be taken full advantage of (in order to produce medals for 2022), and there are others which would benefit from a new style of management (he wasn't very specific, but it sounds like a more western kind of funding structure where individuals and their families support their own training).

Reading between the lines, he seems to primarily care about medals in 2022, which means if P/Z and Y/J have no chance to medal anyway, then they mean nothing to him. But if Y/Z have even just a slim chance of working out great, then that's still worth the gamble. And what happens to any of the skaters or Chinese skating after 2022, that probably means nothing to him either.

ETA: I found the article where he talks about taking maximal advantage of state sponsorship to produce medals in 2022.
http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2015-12-28/detail-ifxmykrf2522518.d.html?from=wap

 

[casken]

The latest 'leak' on Chinese forum is that, due to Yu's opposition almost everyone gave up the idea of the re-pairing, but besides Zhang's insistence, the one person who strongly supported the move was Ren Hongguo. Maybe that's why he's the only person who's given quotes to the media.

Maybe their first LP can be about about a talented young woman being kept prisoner by a giant, greedy ogre.

Seriously, *if* this is all true, the part about her really being opposed to it makes me sick to my stomach. How am I ever going to watch this team without thinking she's doing something she doesn't want to do?

 

[overedge]

Maybe their first LP can be about about a talented young woman being kept prisoner by a giant, greedy ogre.

Or by an evil magician trying to control her, a la this program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkYFPnn9yM

 

[Spun Silver]

I wish the new teams could be banned from international competition because of the forced nature of this repairing. It is a human rights violation.

 

[overedge]

Zhang is no spring chicken (31 according to Wikipedia) and 2022 is several years away. And as we know pairs skating is pretty tough on the body. Is he even going to be capable of skating a pairs program in 2022?

 

[Spun Silver]

^ Friendly amendment: Wikipedia says he is either 31 or 34 (there has been controversy). He sure looks 34 to me.

 

[overedge]

@Spun Silver I'd guess 34 as well. Which means he would be almost 40 in 2022

 

[easilydistracte]

Or by an evil magician trying to control her, a la this program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkYFPnn9yM

Except Zhang Hao ain't no John Zimmerman, as far as artistry goes.

ETA: Zhang's already been subject to a number of injuries for the past several years, hasn't he? Does this mean that he can guarantee that he won't experience any more injuries now that his new partner is Yu? And if he does sustain any more injuries, will it all be Yu's fault?

(Further ETA: I can't get the image out of my head of Yu sitting in a chair under a hot spotlight in a little locked room in a basement someplace listening while Ren circles around her smoking a cigarette as he tells her what will happen to her family if she doesn't submit to the partner switch. I've watched too many bad movies over the years, I guess.)

 

[barbarafan]

I wish the new teams could be banned from international competition because of the forced nature of this repairing. It is a human rights violation.

I so agree with doing something like this...the isu needs to make rules about this and also clearly outline new rules as far as code of behavior for
athletes to follow on any isu competition premises which includes acceptable behaviour towards your partner (as well as officials and other competitors). I understand during a competition a partner keep skating to keep place in program but during practices and during a bad fall during a competition there should be something in rules...There should be instant disqualification of the event.

 

[LilJen]

Reading between the lines, he seems to primarily care about medals in 2022, which means if P/Z and Y/J have no chance to medal anyway, then they mean nothing to him. But if Y/Z have even just a slim chance of working out great, then that's still worth the gamble. And what happens to any of the skaters or Chinese skating after 2022, that probably means nothing to him either.

ETA: I found the article where he talks about taking maximal advantage of state sponsorship to produce medals in 2022.
http://sports.sina.cn/others/winter/2015-12-28/detail-ifxmykrf2522518.d.html?from=wap

Zhang is no spring chicken (31 according to Wikipedia) and 2022 is several years away. And as we know pairs skating is pretty tough on the body. Is he even going to be capable of skating a pairs program in 2022?

I know, right? You'd think they'd want to gamble on someone a bit younger who will not be (skating-wise) geriatric. I guess He-Zhang must be REALLY REALLY super duper.

 

[barbarafan]

I know, right? You'd think they'd want to gamble on someone a bit younger who will not be (skating-wise) geriatric. I guess He-Zhang must be REALLY REALLY super duper.

In China...if you are the wrong age they just change it....remember girl's gymnastics ?

 

[synchrogirl17]

Poor Yu and Jin I agree that Peng might actually feel relieved after this turn of events...

 

[ice crystal]

Maybe their first LP can be about about a talented young woman being kept prisoner by a giant, greedy ogre.

Seriously, *if* this is all true, the part about her really being opposed to it makes me a sick to my stomach. How am I ever going to watch this team without thinking she's doing something she doesn't want to do?

Exactly. Curiosity will probably make me watch them within a competition. But the thought of their 'chemistry' on ice makes me cringe.

 

[clairecloutier]

Exactly. Curiosity will probably make me watch them within a competition. But the thought of their 'chemistry' on ice makes me cringe.

Right ... Considering a lot of people found Peng/Zhang cringeworthy, how much worse will this be?!

 

[ice crystal]

Right ... Considering a lot of people found Peng/Zhang cringeworthy, how much worse will this be?!

Yep, in my case it will require a glass of alcoholic beverage at the ready to deal with the lump in my throat.

 

[Nomad]

I don't think I will be able to watch this team without thinking "If only Yu had been allowed to stay with Jin..." It doesn't help that I have never enjoyed Zhang's skating.