Vanessa James | Morgan Cipres

[Japanfan]

Sui/Han have missed several half seasons in a row due to injury and rehab. They still managed to win Worlds in 2017, and in 2019 by strength of fierce will, along with talent and desire.

However, typically by the way you phrase your comments, you appear to feel that James/Cipres are not as good as S/M, T/M and S/H. In some aspects, J/C are actually better than those teams, whether you want to believe it or not. No team is perfect. Every team has their strengths and weaknesses. I'm completely tired of this rote desire on the part of many to not give James/Cipres credit where credit is due. To win championships, one has to beat fellow competitors. And the point is, they have done just that.

In what aspects are J/C better? Could you elaborate?

I don't think James/Cipres are quite on a level with S/M and S/H, though they are getting closer and improving every year. And they certainly made a statement with their win at GPF.

T/M I just don't find very interesting. I far prefer J/C to T/M regardless of how either pair skates.

Shame what happened at Worlds.

 

[vanillashake]

In what aspects are J/C better? Could you elaborate?

I don't think James/Cipres are quite on a level with S/M and S/H, though they are getting closer and improving every year. And they certainly made a statement with their win at GPF.

T/M I just don't find very interesting. I far prefer J/C to T/M regardless of how either pair skates.

Shame what happened at Worlds.

T&M are the new T&M (aka Tarasova & Morozov/Totmainina & Marinin) but interestingly enough havent been able to win big titles with that style of skating like the earlier T&M did. Granted Tot/Mar mostly won when the mostly superior but very inconsistent Shen & Zhao screwed up which was often, and they also benefitted from the surprise early retirements of Berezhnaya & Sikhardlize and Sale & Pelletier which was probably mostly related to the negative vibe both teams got from the 2002 thing. They were also very lucky Savchenko & Szolkowy did not pair up sooner and were not close to ready by 2005/2006 to challenge them yet. Tar/Mor have not gotten the same breaks from their competitors Tot/Mar did and they are also not the consistent machines Tot/Mar are and are prone to mistakes themselves, even though otherwise both teams are similar- technically very sounds and high quality elements, clean lines and strong skating skills, but lack of excitement, personality, or chemistry on the ice.

 

[Japanfan]

Granted Tot/Mar mostly won when the mostly superior but very inconsistent Shen & Zhao screwed up which was often, and they also benefitted from the surprise early retirements of Berezhnaya & Sikhardlize and Sale & Pelletier which was probably mostly related to the negative vibe both teams got from the 2002 thing.

'Very inconsistent' is not a way I would ever think to describe S/Z, who are three time world medalists and Olympic Gold medallists, plus two-time Olympic bronze medalists. Though perhaps they were less consistent in the earlier part of their career. At the 2010 Olympics they skated first in the field due to having not competed the past year/years. And stayed in first place for the event. Not a small feat, but a testament to them being the class of the field.

I do recall them having problems with spins, which I believe was common for the Chinese pairs for quite a few years. Was it not a mistake on a spin in the SP that cost them the title at Worlds in 2004? They skated a breathtaking Nutcracker that earned more than a few 6.0s IIRC, but were out of the running due to finishing fourth in the SP? I'll never forget the look on T/M's faces when they heard the applause after S/Z FS (not happy).

Tar/Mor have not gotten the same breaks from their competitors Tot/Mar did and they are also not the consistent machines Tot/Mar are and are prone to mistakes themselves, even though otherwise both teams are similar- technically very sounds and high quality elements, clean lines and strong skating skills, but lack of excitement, personality, or chemistry on the ice.

I don't think that Tat/Mor are that similar to T/M. Watching T/M to me was about as exciting as watching paint dry, but their unison was a rare thing of beauty. I don't think Tat/Mor compare on that level. But TBH I sort of tune out when they skate. I guess I find them even less exciting than Tot/Mor.

 

[vanillashake]

'Very inconsistent' is not a way I would ever think to describe S/Z, who are three time world medalists and Olympic Gold medallists, plus two-time Olympic bronze medalists. Though perhaps they were less consistent in the earlier part of their career. At the 2010 Olympics they skated first in the field due to having not competed the past year/years. And stayed in first place for the event. Not a small feat, but a testament to them being the class of the field.

Totmianina & Marinin actually won the majority (4 of 6 to be exact) meetings with Shen & Zhao from 2003-2006. So yes Shen & Zhao were fairly inconsistent, or atleast much less consistent than T&M, considering a clean S&Z would beat a clean T&M atleast 3 times out of 4, yet they still lost to them more often than they won at the height of their rivalry so were likely/obviously making mistakes much more often than Tot/Mar were.

I do recall them having problems with spins, which I believe was common for the Chinese pairs for quite a few years. Was it not a mistake on a spin in the SP that cost them the title at Worlds in 2004? They skated a breathtaking Nutcracker that earned more than a few 6.0s IIRC, but were out of the running due to finishing fourth in the SP? I'll never forget the look on T/M's faces when they heard the applause after S/Z FS (not happy).

No Shen & Zhao had a fall on the side by side triple toes in the short at those Worlds, not a mistake on the spin.

Also while S&Z were great in the long and deservedly won that portion even over strong skates by both T&M and their teammates Pang & Tong 6.0s at those Worlds were a joke and mean absolutely nothing. Navka & Kostomarov had 12 6.0s, Kwan got 6 6.0s which she never once came close to any other time at Olympics/Worlds for just an ok 5 triple long program, Pang & Tong got 6.0s for presentation from 2 judges, and Winkler & Lohse (haha) even got a perfect 6.0. Plushenko also got 4 6.0s even though he took an ugly fall on the takeoff of a jump late in his long program. I think the total number of 6.0s given out at these worlds was something like 53, and atleast 3 skaters/teams got one in each event except maybe the mens. Kostner also got a 5.9 for technical merit for this shit,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_riCsxtfFt4v the judges were having a "goodbye to the 6.0" fest.

I don't think that Tat/Mor are that similar to T/M. Watching T/M to me was about as exciting as watching paint dry, but their unison was a rare thing of beauty. I don't think Tat/Mor compare on that level. But TBH I sort of tune out when they skate. I guess I find them even less exciting than Tot/Mor.

That is true, I dont think their unision while good is anywhere near the superlative near perfection of Tat/Mor either. One advantage they have over Tat/Mor is a much bigger and stronger twist which was never that strong an element for Tat/Mor and probably stronger lifts too.

 

[Jammers]

To be honest i think last season was J/C's best chance to win Worlds. Injuries, retirements and a new Olympic cycle meant the field was much weaker and it will only get stronger now until Beijing. Younger teams like B/K will make huge improvements over the next 3 years and probably be medal contenders by 2022. Just look at T/M they didn't really become medal contenders until the year before the Olympics so who knows if there are other young teams no one is talking about that will suddenly rise also. J/C can only improve so much compared to much younger teams who can improve in a hurry.

 

[vanillashake]

In what aspects are J/C better? Could you elaborate?

They do some elements bigger than Sui & Han even if less technically sound. Savchenko & Massot not really.

They are probably bolder with their music choices and doing more unusual programs than S&M and S&H. Not that is neccessarily better or everyone prefers that.

 

[mjb52]

I think J/C have incredible charisma and chemistry and that shouldn't be under-rated in an artistic sport. I do agree though that last year was their best chance... but that doesn't mean it was their only chance.

 

[Frau Muller]

I think J/C have incredible charisma and chemistry and that shouldn't be under-rated in an artistic sport. I do agree though that last year was their best chance... but that doesn't mean it was their only chance.

I totally agree. J/C and the “smoking unitards” reached their apogee in 2018/19.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't think James/Cipres are quite on a level with S/M and S/H, though they are getting closer and improving every year. And they certainly made a statement with their win at GPF.

But with that snobby attitude J/C, will never be good enough for you. How can you say with a straight face that J/C are not on Sav/Mas and S/H level??? FYI: Bruno Massot was not on Aliona's level when they first paired, but he improved over time and skated up. S/H have always been a determined and consistent team with excellent tricks. It's only been in recent seasons that they finally grew aesthetically with the help of Shen/Zhao, deepening their overall abilities. But for the last few seasons, with Sui's injuries, they are not quite as solid on the sbs jumps that can give Sui difficulty. Still, by force of will alone, they can win championships. Not many teams are on their level. But T/M and J/C are, whether you think so or not.

S/M are currently not competing, but when they first paired, they were considered one of the top teams largely on the strength of Aliona's expertise and experience. As Bruno became more consistent and closer to Aliona's level, they began winning, but it didn't happen overnight. They were in fourth place after the sp at the Olympics, due to a minor error on a jumping pass by Bruno. It was by sheer force of will and desire that they skated perfectly in the fp to win, surpassing the other teams who were not quite as perfect in the fp.

J/C have always been excellent with lifts, and they've always had great speed and relative consistency on their jumping passes -- they are more consistent on jumping passes than many teams. In recent seasons, their lifts have been so innovative, they are being copied. Vanessa gets good height on throws, but she sometimes lands a bit forward on certain jumps. Still, she is an amazing pairs lady who always guts out performances, without giving in to awkward landings. Not everyone is able to gut it out like that. Only the best are in that category.

The most important 'it-factor' that J/C possess is their hot chemistry, which teams either have or they don't. Vanessa & Morgan have an enviable charisma that they don't even have to work at. Plus good looks and amazing physiques. They match exceptionally well, and their connection is electric, which enhances everything they do. In these aspects, J/C are the best, period.

A lot of people like to put J/C down for the catch-all SS bugaboo, when the fact is, many teams do not have great SS. Of course T/M and S/H do have superb SS, but T/M lack any connection to each other or to the audience, and they've had a great deal of trouble consistently finding the right music and programs. In addition, some inconsistencies have crept into T/M's performances the past couple of seasons. When T/M are in the zone, of course, they provide a clinic with their technique and SS. But that's not enough to be fully well-rounded, despite the fact T/M are often favored by judges on the basis of their SS. We'll see whether T/M bringing Charlie White onto their team this coming season will have the impact they are looking for. And ahem, Charlie White did beautiful, standout work for J/C and for Denney/Frazier last season. There's a reason why T/M are seeking Charlie's input.

While J/C may not have the deepest of edges, they have improved a lot in this area and demonstrate much more smoothness over the ice. They've always had good ice coverage. Another area where they have improved is skating two as one. Over the past several seasons, they have been excellent in this category. And the fact that they already have a magical connection with each other, heart and soul, only adds further impact to their unison.

As well, J/C incorporate very difficult transitions with superb ease, so much so that they don't always get the credit they deserve in that area from the judges. Furthermore, J/C's triple twist, which was average when they first paired is one of their best elements today. It's very strong and consistent, with great height and smooth touchdown. Another important factor has been J/C's excellent music selection and superior choreography. Collaborating with Zimmerman, Fontana, Barrett and Kerr worked magic for J/C. And this past season, was their third straight with bravura music selection and choreography that has been influential. Their costume aesthetic, movement style, and many of their moves have been widely copied, which is a compliment, and indicative of the fact that J/C and their choreographers have been setting an important pace in pairs figure skating.

ETA:
James/Cipres have been 'making a statement' for the past several seasons. Last season, they won every competition they entered except Worlds (which was their only hiccough after winning Euros and having a long layoff).

 

[aftershocks]

... so I guess most agree with me and not with you.

FYI: I don't come on here to share my opinions in order to get anyone to agree with me. So, there's that.

None of this is about arguing or having a pissing contest. You have your views and I have mine. I only slightly disagree with some of what you say in any case. This should be about having a conversation or a debate, without rancor or ill feelings. Life is too short to get stressed out over fs fandoms and variances of opinion.

We don't have to agree. And our opinions mean zip in the long run. It's the skaters who are in the arena, shedding blood, sweat and tears. No matter what we think, or how many people line up behind a particular outlook, it means nothing to what skaters may or may not accomplish in the long run.

 

[aftershocks]

... last year was their best chance... but that doesn't mean it was their only chance.

True, it certainly doesn't mean it was their only chance, since they are returning this season.

As far as the belief that 'last season was their best chance,' I would remind you and everyone that results have proven that not to be the case.

Basically, what many people are saying in so many words is that the judges will likely give J/C short shrift up against some other teams. I say the judges have been trying to 'manage' J/C's scores since forever. But when you're good, you're good. Still, J/C can lay it down and then some and still be robbed, so it's almost a bit of unreal extra pressure for them to have to prove themselves again and again. Because as we can see, there's an ingrained attitude that somehow J/C aren't good enough, no matter how good they are. It reminds me of when the Olympic season rolled around in 2014, and suddenly the World champion team of Savchenko/Szolkowy were seen as underdogs to Volosozhar/Trankov. That was a snobby political presumption too, especially with the Olympics set in Moscow.

I'm tired of the patronizing views, the presumptions, and the snobby looking down, and I'm going to tell like it is. Politics can and has gotten in the way often for many good teams up against not only talented rivals, but also fighting against negative perceptions. Vee & Momo know the deal, and that's why what they have accomplished is so freakin' amazing. They abide with grace and determination. Those who didn't look at some of the linked montages, should.

I agree with you and it goes without saying how great J/C are in terms of charisma and chemistry.

 

[aftershocks]

J/C and the “smoking unitards” reached their apogee in 2018/19.

The new season hasn't started yet, but as we can see in the early pre-season comps, 'smoking unitards' are all the rage all over the place, from ladies singles to pairs ladies, without Vanessa even having competed yet.

Unitards have been around off and on since Debi Thomas first rocked one in 1988, after which they were outlawed for a time. They came back, and then they came back with a vengeance when Vanessa James began rocking them with her own sassy style and 'tude!

 

[vanillashake]

FYI: I don't come on here to share my opinions in order to get anyone to agree with me. So, there's that.

None of this is about arguing or having a pissing contest. You have your views and I have mine. I only slightly disagree with some of what you say in any case. This should be about having a conversation or a debate, without rancor or ill feelings. Life is too short to get stressed out over fs fandoms and variances of opinion.

We don't have to agree. And our opinions mean zip in the long run. It's the skaters who are in the arena, shedding blood, sweat and tears. No matter what we think, or how many people line up behind a particular outlook, it means nothing to what skaters may or may not accomplish in the long run.

I agree with your last point but seeing your postings in general you seem too passionate on all topics for your own good at times, and too eager to get involved in a pissing contest with anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on anything or anyone. Which is fine and all, but that isnt my thing, so I will only go so far down that road before quietly slinking aside and going elsewhere.

 

[aftershocks]

I agree with your last point but seeing your postings in general you seem too passionate on all topics for your own good at times, and too eager to get involved in a pissing contest with anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on anything or anyone. Which is fine and all, but that isnt my thing, so I will only go so far down that road before quietly slinking aside and going elsewhere.

Ah well, that's your perception. Though I may often be preaching, I'm not pissing because there's no need for me to do so. No one has to agree with me, but I will share my views and where I disagree with others when I feel so moved. Often my tone is mistaken because that happens when not speaking in person. I can and have mistaken others' tones in some cases. The key is to try not to project, but to reflect on one's own behavior and motivations. As far as what's good for me, please worry about yourself in that regard.

What some people may not get in some cases (and I'm not referencing you in this instance), is that when I'm addressed in a challenging, curt or aggressive manner, I do tend to give such posters back the same energy -- right back at their doorstep. In other instances, where I might see things differently and I'm passionate and voluble, apparently some people find that annoying. Mostly though, I just try to be thoughtful in how I break things down, plus I'm not afraid to share strong opinions. And to a fault, I often end up riffing and finding connections which tends to add more content to my posts than I initially intend. But whatever. None of us are perfect.

 

[Mad for Skating]

With all due respect, @aftershocks, no one here hates Vanessa and Morgan. You don’t need to write up a 300-page book telling us how great they are; we can see with our own eyes. It’s great that you’re passionate about them, but nobody here was trying to criticize them, so you don’t need to defend them.

Let’s all just watch “The Sound of Silence” and admire how great they are, okay?

 

[Japanfan]

FYI: I don't come on here to share my opinions in order to get anyone to agree with me. So, there's that.

None of this is about arguing or having a pissing contest. You have your views and I have mine. I only slightly disagree with some of what you say in any case. This should be about having a conversation or a debate, without rancor or ill feelings. Life is too short to get stressed out over fs fandoms and variances of opinion.

If you don't come here looking for people to agree with you, you would not post this:

But with that snobby attitude J/C, will never be good enough for you. How can you say with a straight face that J/C are not on Sav/Mas and S/H level???

So if I don't agree with you about J/C, then I'm snobby?

Sorry, but I don't think J/C are yet on Sav/Mas and S/H level. But as I said, they are getting closer. So, I have a different opinion than you.

I have actually long been a fan of J/C and seeing them win the GPF here in Vancouver last year was a highlight for me among the few skating competitions I've attended live. My experience of attending a skating competition live is that it all becomes a blur when it's over and you don't remember much. But I'll never forget J/C at GPF.

I agree with this:

I agree with your last point but seeing your postings in general you seem too passionate on all topics for your own good at times, and too eager to get involved in a pissing contest with anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest on anything or anyone.

Sorry, but that is how you come across.

The most important 'it-factor' that J/C possess is their hot chemistry, which teams either have or they don't. Vanessa & Morgan have an enviable charisma that they don't even have to work at. Plus good looks and amazing physiques. They match exceptionally well, and their connection is electric, which enhances everything they do. In these aspects, J/C are the best, period.

I agree about the charisma, but would note that S/H have their own special qualities as a pair, as do other pairs. The word that first comes to mind for S/H is 'harmony', though I may want to change it after thinking about it a bit.

A lot of people like to put J/C down for the catch-all SS bugaboo, when the fact is, many teams do not have great SS.

I don't recall anyone putting J/C down on this forum. Perhaps you could provide some examples?

I've always thought that J/C were quite loved as a pair, both on this board and in the figure skating community at large.

James/Cipres have been 'making a statement' for the past several seasons. Last season, they won every competition they entered except Worlds (which was their only hiccough after winning Euros and having a long layoff).

I don't disagree with you, and don't think anyone else will, either.

I think you are being over-sensitive to perceived slights about J/C that don't exist. But, I could be wrong. Please respond to my request for examples of how they are being slighted.

I'm tired of the patronizing views, the presumptions, and the snobby looking down, and I'm going to tell like it is.

Again, evidence please.

Vee & Momo know the deal

Just curious - where did those names come from?

 

[muffinplus]

J/C were really memorable live at GPF to me as well... the lifts were just incredible

 

[Orm Irian]

I do so envy those of you who've seen them skate live. I'm having trouble waiting for Europeans so I can see them and that's not till next year!

 

[DreamSkates]

It was their best chance IMO since they arent exactly young, they have stated many times there is no way they continue until 2022 (they might change their mind but they even said they would have retired if they won worlds this year), and they had such an incredible season leading into worlds which would be hard to duplicate that level of momentum leading into the big event again. That plus Sui & Han came into worlds having missed the whole season basically, and Tarasova & Morozov were having a mediocre year, and Savchenko & Massot were away. Basically all the stars were aligned for them.

And who was not too old to win the OGM at the last Olympics?

 

[DreamSkates]

T&M did not have clean skates in any of their competitions, except sort of at worlds. While I dont think they are amazing and the kind of team who would ever be Russian #1 in their glory days, they atleast are usually consistent and have lots of clean competitions. They didnt even have many clean shorts which are usually easy for them to produce. And they werent only losing to James & Cipres, but even losing to a team like Peng & Jin at the GPF which is basically an up and coming non elite team.

Anyway I can tell you like to argue so I wont bother more. I like James & Cipres but the reality is if you started a poll if they missed their best ever shot to win worlds in 2019 probably over 90% vote yes, so I guess most agree with me and not with you. That doesnt mean there is no possible shot, but their absolute best one has already sailed most likely, but I wish them the best in their quest.

Then put up the poll and see if you are right.

 

[aftershocks]

J/C have some affectionate nicknames. I didn't make those names up myself.

@Japanfan, I can disagree with you, without needing anyone to agree with me about disagreeing with you.

Okay, so you like J/C and think they have improved, but not enough. I don't see it exactly the same way you do, but you've made your point. As I've said before, we can all think whatever we wish, it's always the athletes who do the heavy lifting, i.e., the difficult work of training, traveling and competing in all kinds of arenas under variant conditions. Skaters have my admiration and my respect. We all have our faves and non-faves. It is what it is.

Sadly, J/C are not held in as much respect as they are due for their talent and hard work, which is not to say they don't have plenty of fans and people in the skating community who do enjoy their skating and who do give them lots of credit and respect. It's just not as much as it should be for what they have achieved together against a lot of obstacles.

If you don't recognize the slights and subtle putdowns directed at J/C in some quarters, then my telling you what I've seen and heard and perceived is not going to help you at all. It's obvious to me, but apparently not to you.

 

[aftershocks]

With all due respect, @aftershocks, no one here hates Vanessa and Morgan. You don’t need to write up a 300-page book telling us how great they are; we can see with our own eyes. It’s great that you’re passionate about them, but nobody here was trying to criticize them, so you don’t need to defend them.

Let’s all just watch “The Sound of Silence” and admire how great they are, okay?

There's no need either for you to over-react to my passion for J/C and to my commentary in this thread. You can speak for yourself, and decide to celebrate J/C in the way that makes you happy.

We all have free will.

This is J/C's fan thread and I've blown off steam here in admiration of them. I find it interesting though in another thread here lately where my giving J/C credit for their part in injecting so much excitement into the pairs field has been objected to vociferously.

 

[Mad for Skating]

There's no need either for you to over-react to my passion for J/C and to my commentary in this thread. You can speak for yourself, and decide to celebrate J/C in the way that makes you happy.

We all have free will.

This is J/C's fan thread and I've blown off steam here in admiration of them. I find it interesting though in another thread here lately where my giving J/C credit for their part in injecting so much excitement into the pairs field has been objected to vociferously.

Hey, there’s nothing wrong with loving them like crazy. I just meant that there’s no need to defend them when none of us are trying to criticize them Keep on doing you.

 

[aftershocks]

Hey, there’s nothing wrong with loving them like crazy. I just meant that there’s no need to defend them when none of us are trying to criticize them Keep on doing you.

Hey, there are some viewpoints in this thread I slightly disagree with and I'm not shy about addressing such. There's no way I will ever stop being me, at least not in this lifetime. Thank God for my many blessings.

 

[cholla]

J/C have some affectionate nicknames. I didn't make those names up myself.

And what makes you think it's OK to call them that way ? "Momo" is how his team mates, friends and family call him. Are you part of one of these groups ? I don't think so. I have known Morgan since he was a junior single skater, well enough that he uses "tu" in French to talk to me instead of the regular "vous" despite I'm older than his mother, but I would never call him Momo, it would just be totally ridiculous and out of line as we aren't personal friends. As for Vanessa, her usual short name is Ness and I never heard anyone calling her "Vee" nor "Vané", although some people might do since you say you didn't coin it yourself. But using these "affectionate" names on a forum is really out of line to me. If you don't get why, let me call you Shocky. It's not particularly affectionate and I'm not exactly one of your fans but well, it's a short name too.

 

[aftershocks]

It's nice @cholla that you know Vanessa and Morgan on a more direct, personal basis. Good for you. As a fan, it's not unusual to feel a familiarity with skaters or with other high profile personalities admired from afar. Granted that feeling such a familiarity does not mean an intimate relationship exists. I root for them and cheer for them in an affectionate and non-formal way, and I have seen their various nicknames mentioned, by those who are fans and/or friends and family. A fan thread on a skating forum is an informal setting, where rooting for skaters in an affectionate and familiar way happens all the time, with positive and supportive intent, which is better than the negative slams and dissing, which also unfortunately happen often toward skaters and public figures in our social media world.

Thanks for expressing your feelings and your opinion in this regard. I am moved by J/C's skating and by their partnership, and I'm also touched by Julie Wie's lovely montages. J/C have numerous fans who discovered them via Youtube performance videos and montages. I wish J/C much luck, happiness and a fun season! And I thank them for all the wonderful moments they have given to the sport through their passion, determination and grace.

 

[cholla]

It's nice @cholla that you know Vanessa and Morgan on a more direct, personal basis.

I never said that. And that's because I don't that I wouldn't call them by any kind of nickname. I know them on a professional level only.

As a fan, it's not unusual to feel a familiarity with skaters or with other high profile personalities admired from afar. Granted that feeling such a familiarity does not mean an intimate relationship exists.

Hence the impropriety to call them by nicknames. And there is a huge difference between feeling familiarity and actually being familiar with someone. On boards and social media, a lot of boundaries are now crossed and, as I am getting old(er), I tend to feel uncomfortable with that. I assume it would be different if I was from a younger generation.

I root for them and cheer for them in an affectionate and non-formal way,

You also often present your feelings and thoughts on J/C as facts when it's only your own interpretation of what you saw via your TV or monitor or of what you read on line. To the point some of what you write sounds like pure fan fiction. The form of your messages shows you are educated, articulate and clever but the content sounds naive and romanticized. It's the discrepancy between the form and the content that puzzles me. Being a great fan of J/C is a good thing but it may not be necessary to describe what they do as the best thing in the world since man created the blade. They are excellent and I love them with a capital L, they are in the international tops but I don't think they are a revolution in pair skating per se. They brought a lot, but so did their actual contenders. I am always a bit wary and I find it uncomfortable when they are considered as the 8th World Wonder. (That is worth for all skaters, I feel uneasy with idolization). Placing them on a pedestal isn't doing them any favor. But that's of course, only my opinion.

 

[allezfred]

I have seen their various nicknames mentioned, by those who are fans and/or friends and family.

If you could cite where anybody else apart from you has called Vanessa "Vee" or "Vané" I am sure we would all love to see it.

 

[aftershocks]

Hey there allez, allez, allez fred! What's yo' nickname? I don't think you are really that interested, but yep I've seen Vanessa called Vané and Vee on some Instagram and Youtube posts, not that often, but a time or two. She's also been called Vaness by a few Instagram posters. Imagine that! Who knows whether these posters are mostly fans (probably that's more the case) or some actual friends. And now @cholla has mentioned having 'professional' knowledge of Vanessa's friends and family calling her 'Ness! Does that mean VJ gets a trophy for badass pairs diva with the most nicknames and country affiliations?

ETA:
Ah yes, I first mentioned the nicknames not coined by me in post #185 in this thread. So you and cholla are late to the nickname ballgame allezfred. Courtesy of Julie Wie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMexhHEzVGE Allez!

 

[kittysk8ts]

New interview

James and Ciprès Find New Motivation

By Hiro Yoshida A nightmare end to a dream season means Vanessa James and Morgan Ciprès have unfinished business when it comes to skating.

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