Articles confirming new Chinese pairs Yu/Zhang and Peng/Jin

[barbarafan]

TAT's comment in the place you linked: "he should have given her a hand" and the other commentator said "how strong he is! He throws one partner against the boards, then another"

A real gent he is

Thanks Xela M.....I do not speak Russian at all (very frustrating)..I have really liked Tat since she gave V/M a standing O for Carmen but now I luv her. Who was the second commentator?.

 

[Vash01]

Russia

Compared to what I just read about these Chinese pairs, I think there is relative freedom in Russia to either stay with a partner or leave a partner. In 'My Sergei' Katia Gordeeva wrote that one point they (may be the coach) wanted to split her and Sergei and Katia refused. She said (paraphrasing) she would quit skating if it wasn't with Sergei. We have seen examples of pairs or ice dance teams that chose to skate together despite their differences (e.g. Grishchuk-Platov) and not because they were forced to by their fed.

But I bet China could have kept I&K together

I guess you are correct but the results might have been disastrous. May be these Chinese pairs are more obedient.

 

[Vash01]

I think the fact that Russia could not keep togethet its most promising dance team is enough to show its difference from the Chinese system. Zahorski-Guerreiro is another example of a team that came together largely on their own, having to fight (and cross international obstacles) to prove themselves (not without state help, but also not formed or wholly supported by it). So is this practice unique to China? That alone is enough to raise red flags. If a forced partnership or breakup of one is so rare that only one country in the skating world practices it, one has to ask why, and the reason is that it violates the heart and spirit of the skaters. And why is that? Because it is forcing them to be intimate together and to try to become "two as one" -- when in fact it is a relationship where an older and more powerful party, simply grabbed the other as if she was standing in a brothel window and broke up her successful partnership with someone else completely against her will (and possibly her previous partner's too, as, if some here are correct, his career just went from promising to the dust bin).

I am not trying to romanticize pairs partnerships. But there are not too many jobs where the partners spend hours alone together every day, hold/are held by the crotch, tell each other what to eat or not eat, travel around the world together, put each other's lives in their hands, literally, on a daily basis, and have as their overarching goal to create the impression of two as one, a romantic ideal. It is a unique job that requires commitment of body and spirit. Sure, there have been battling pairs and dance teams who were able to set aside their differences and work professionally together with great results (Castelli-Shnapir, Hurtado-Diaz) and there have also been such teams who split because of those differences (Castelli-Shnapir, Hurtado-Diaz). Not unlike a marriage. But the members of those teams chose to stay together and they chose to split. That makes all the difference. People are not robots or slaves.

These partnerships are obviously not identical to marriages or romantic relationships. I'm making an analogy, given all the factors above. If it's not helpful, ditch it. I am using it as shorthand to show why these CSA actions were human rights violations, IMO, and should be banned by the ISU.

Spun Silver, I agree with most of your post, but I can't agree with it being a human rights violation. That's a bit of a stretch. To me, HRV involves not just emotional abuse but physical one too, with a threat to a person's life. IMO what the Chinese fed did to its young pairs team is horrible, and they may not have a choice but to go along with it. It is sad, but it's short of HRV. JMO.

 

[Vash01]

So is there a winner in this whole thing or is everyone a loser?

I think both Yu and Jin are losers if they really wanted to skate together but now they cannot.

Zhang is a winner, no matter what. He is still a pairs skater with a talented young partner.

Peng- she may look better with Jin than with Zhang; she looked like she was skating with her father. So this could be a 'win' for her.

If these pairs do perform well and win competitions, the Chinese fed is going to look like a genius. Only time will tell.

 

[WildRose]

oh pls....she is an ice dance coach

Who knows more about skating than you do.

 

[Vash01]

I'm in the minority here, but I didn't see any problem with Zhang continuing once Peng fell. He had no idea how long it was going to take her to get to the other side of the ice, and he continued with the timing. Some of you seem to suggest he should have put the brakes on while gliding forward, then suddenly picked up the speed again to attempt the 3T once she was near. Not going to happen. If Zhang did stop, then they could have lost the rhythm or played catch-up for the rest of the program. Maybe easy to do when it's only one skater, but not when you have two skaters that need to be incredibly in sync, especially for high-risk elements like the lift.

I didn't see a problem either with him going on. He couldn't have just stopped skating, even to lend her a hand. IIRC you are talking about the sbs jumps and not the throw, right? If it was a throw, he could have lent her a hand but in sbs jumps it's hard to stop the momentum for the other partner. I remember that at the 1990 worlds, Katia didn't do the 2A at the start of a combination, but Sergei continued to do his, and they were completely out of sync. He didn't stop to see what she would do next.

 

[Karpenko]

A side by side jump doesn't even count at all if only one partner does it. That's my issue and Zhang knows it more than anyone as the most experienced pairs skater in the field.

He was an ass IMO and trying to prove that he could do it even though she fell. "I'm not the problem" is the message he was subtlely sending to the public with that. Waiting a second could've maybe helped the GOE since they'd be more in synch? It wouldn't have affected the program waiting 2-4 more seconds, they also would've been more in synch (that 2T element with -3 GOE shouldn't have even counted because of the timing between the two skaters being so off IMO. They received only 0.7 for the jump because of GOE). It's called Pairs figure skating.

 

[skateboy]

The CBC's commentators explained that he had no choice but to continue skating the program. When a fall happens in the middle of a pairs program, the other skater has to keep going and the one who falls has to catch up. Had this happened during a practice or warm up it would have been different.

Thank you.

 

[feraina]

I saw a really interesting interview with Bin Yao today. Not very recent but gives you some insight into his thinking/strategy. I hope I have time to translate it over the weekend.
Preview: he's an extremely confident/arrogant person

 

[overedge]

There are different ways for one skater to "continue skating the program" when the other skater falls, on a jump or anything else.

No, one skater is not going to completely stop the program to help the other one up (unless he or she is seriously hurt and can't keep going). But the skater who didn't fall usually doesn't just keep going at full speed, because that is going to make it very difficult for the other skater catch up.

What most pair skaters do if their partner falls on a jump is to hold the exit edge of their own jump a little longer, to give the other skater time to get up and back into sync with them. And/or they can slow down the pace of the steps after the jump until the other skater is doing the choreography with them again. (Although they can't slow down *too* much because that could throw the timing off for the rest of the program.)

The skater who didn't fall can "continue skating the program" but can do it in a way that helps the other skater recover from the fall.

 

[Japanfan]

The skater who didn't fall can "continue skating the program" but can do it in a way that helps the other skater recover from the fall.

Seems to me that continuing on with the program would occur due to training and muscle memory. Zhang might not even have had the thought "she fell, what do I do"? He did look back at her, she got up, and they continued.

There are many instances in which skaters don't jump in sync and are far away from each other, or fall out of sync in others way. Very often one one pair or the other continues in that way until one or the other realizes.

Basically, I don't think pair skaters are trained to stop when there partner has a fall. Sure it's a bit different if it is a bad fall, but that was not the case with Peng.

 

[overedge]

Basically, I don't think pair skaters are trained to stop when there partner has a fall.

No, they aren't trained to do that. But they are trained to be in sync with their partner, and part of that training is learning to respond appropriately to what the partner does - so that the pair maintains the appearance of unison.

 

[Japanfan]

Bin Yao has always been crazy in love with He Zhang, and thinks he is so much better than what he really is. I say that as one of the few who actually liked the Zhang/Zhang pairing. He Zhang is well into his 30s now, and clearly gotten stale. He needs to just retire already, and not interfere with their young promising skaters.

I agree that Bin Yao has an infatuation with Zhang. Z&Z were his pet pair, whereas he completely neglected P&T for a time. There was a period where they were excluded from the team, and trained on their own with Tong coaching. But P&T were clearly the superior pair.

Zhang really doesn't have a whole lot of healthy years left to complete. If he keeps pushing it, he'll likely suffer injuries due to age, as FS takes its toll on the body.

I really feel sorry for Yu as she is now the one paired with the old guy, and her promising career has basically been cut short. For Peng, maybe it is a liberation of sorts, although she too doesn't have a whole lot to look forward to IMO.

 

[Japanfan]

If a forced partnership or breakup of one is so rare that only one country in the skating world practices it, one has to ask why, and the reason is that it violates the heart and spirit of the skaters.

People are not robots or slaves.

These partnerships are obviously not identical to marriages or romantic relationships. I'm making an analogy, given all the factors above. If it's not helpful, ditch it. I am using it as shorthand to show why these CSA actions were human rights violations, IMO, and should be banned by the ISU.

I take your point, but don't think you can call repairing a human rights violation unless the skaters are being forced to skate. If quitting is an option should a skater not like a repairing, the skater is making a choice to continue on. Even if skating is all an individual knows, skaters are young and can get more education or training to change careers. Or continue on in skating as a coach or other professional.

Employees are often partnered with other employees they might not like or get along with, or work with such employees in teams. While this may reflect an unwise decision on the part of the employer, it's not a human rights violation.

 

[Sylvia]

@Ilvskating has posted a positive hearsay update on Yu/Zhang and Peng/Jin in the Chinese news thread here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-17#post-4786616

 

[hanca]

The question is how much is this positive hearsay update believable. Is it just an official line from the Chinese federation? Or do skaters who are forcibly split and paired with someone else suddenly three weeks later happy as if nothing happened? Are they superhumans with a strong ability to 'let go'? Because any average person would be three weeks later still upset, angry and not very happy. They may be training, because accepting the situation if they don't have a choice is one thing, but saying that they are happy and at peace with that? Yes, sure....

 

[blue_idealist]

I agree that Bin Yao has an infatuation with Zhang. Z&Z were his pet pair, whereas he completely neglected P&T for a time. There was a period where they were excluded from the team, and trained on their own with Tong coaching. But P&T were clearly the superior pair.

Zhang really doesn't have a whole lot of healthy years left to complete. If he keeps pushing it, he'll likely suffer injuries due to age, as FS takes its toll on the body.

I really feel sorry for Yu as she is now the one paired with the old guy, and her promising career has basically been cut short. For Peng, maybe it is a liberation of shorts, although she too doesn't have a whole lot to look forward to IMO.

I didn't get why the Zhangs were thought of as so great for a while. Yeah, they were pretty good, but I remember thinking P&T should have won the silver medal, or at least the bronze, at the 2006 Olympics (leaving T&M in gold and S&Z on the podium, too). Z&Z didn't have the connection on ice that S&Z and P&T had/have. They seemed technically very good but also very flat.

 

[Sylvia]

@feraina has posted a link to a GS post/thread that summarizes the Yu/Jin split from a Chinese fan's perspective (I thought it should be cross-posted in this thread as well): http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59429-The-spiltting-event-of-Yu-Jin-a-summary

ETA:

I saw a really interesting interview with Bin Yao today. Not very recent but gives you some insight into his thinking/strategy. I hope I have time to translate it over the weekend.

feraina's translation of the first part is posted in the Chinese news thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-19#post-4786851

 

[Xela M]

@feraina has posted a link to a GS post/thread that summarizes the Yu/Jin split from a Chinese fan's perspective (I thought it should be cross-posted in this thread as well): http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59429-The-spiltting-event-of-Yu-Jin-a-summary

ETA:

feraina's translation of the first part is posted in the Chinese news thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-19#post-4786851

People think Sui/Han are in danger of being split up?!?! How insane would that be?! So Sui was looked at as a potential partner before they chose Yu?!

 

[clairecloutier]

People think Sui/Han are in danger of being split up?!?! How insane would that be?! So Sui was looked at as a potential partner before they chose Yu?!

Are you really that surprised, given what's happened??

 

[Xela M]

Are you really that surprised, given what's happened??

Well, kinda... Sui/Han are OGM-favourites for the upcoming Olympics in less than 2 years' time

 

[Japanfan]

Zhang is a winner, no matter what. He is still a pairs skater with a talented young partner.

Yes. But it's actually quite amazing that he wants to continue skating, given his age, given that he has already had two partners, and given that he is how married (within the last year IIRC). For many/most skaters, it would be time start a family and to move on.

Then again, maybe the federation has given him an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Vash01]

Yes. But it's actually quite amazing that he wants to continue skating, given his age, given that he has already had two partners, and given that he is how married (within the last year IIRC). For many/most skaters, it would be time start a family and to move on.

Then again, maybe the federation has given him an offer he can't refuse.

May be he wants the OGM

 

[Japanfan]

May be he wants the OGM

No doubt, but so do a lot of skaters, especially those who consistently place in the top 6.

There's going to be some fierce competition for that gold, starting with S/H, #1 in China for a good long time and #2 in the world two season's running. Although two years is a long time away, right now it looks like S/H and at least two Russian pairs will be the top contenders. Possibly D/R will be in the mix, though IMO they probably reached their pinnacle this season.

But with Megan Duhamel, never say never.

 

[Xela M]

No doubt, but so do a lot of skaters, especially those who consistently place in the top 6.

There's going to be some fierce competition for that gold, starting with S/H, #1 in China for a good long time and #2 in the world two season's running. Although two years is a long time away, right now it looks like S/H and at least two Russian pairs will be the top contenders. Possibly D/R will be in the mix, though IMO they probably reached their pinnacle this season.

But with Megan Duhamel, never say never.

D/R are definitely "in the mix" if not co-favourites next to S/H! There is also S/M! The Russian pairs need to upgrade their elements or they won't be in the running for the Gold

 

[rhapsody]

D/R are definitely "in the mix" if not co-favourites next to S/H! There is also S/M! The Russian pairs need to upgrade their elements or they won't be in the running for the Gold

Crossing my fingers for Aliona and Bruno. With Sui possibly out due to ankle surgery for however long, I need my adopted German pairs to kill it in 2018. The judges clearly love them. Queen Aliona for 2018 OGM!

 

[Xela M]

Crossing my fingers for Aliona and Bruno. With Sui possibly out due to ankle surgery for however long, I need my adopted German pairs to kill it in 2018. The judges clearly love them. Queen Aliona for 2018 OGM!

What?! Sui's injury is bad enough for there to be questions about S/H's future?!

 

[feraina]

feraina's translation of the first part is posted in the Chinese news thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ad-to-beijing-2022.97764/page-19#post-4786851

For anyone interested, I translated the rest of the Yao Bin article in the other thread. It's much more interesting (I think) than the first part.

 

[Japanfan]

For anyone interested, I translated the rest of the Yao Bin article in the other thread. It's much more interesting (I think) than the first part.

The arrogance is just amazing. Bin Yao does not come across as a very likeable person and it appears he really neglected his family, who came second to his school.

Though a lot of credit and admiration has to be given to him for building up the Chinese pairs school from nothing and succeeding so well with his first three major pairs, S/Z, P/T and Z/Z. It was 'an impossible dream', which make it all the sweeter when P/T skated to that program in 2010, and Bin Yao saw two of him teams 1-2 on the podium. We've seen him in tears more than a few times over the years, that's for sure. When he's gone, he's leaving a legacy behind.

 

[Vash01]

No doubt, but so do a lot of skaters, especially those who consistently place in the top 6.

There's going to be some fierce competition for that gold, starting with S/H, #1 in China for a good long time and #2 in the world two season's running. Although two years is a long time away, right now it looks like S/H and at least two Russian pairs will be the top contenders. Possibly D/R will be in the mix, though IMO they probably reached their pinnacle this season.

But with Megan Duhamel, never say never.

At this time D&R are the OGM favorites. 'Back to back world titles' makes them so.

Obviously I don't want them to win the OGM but they are the favorites. I will be shocked if they won anything less than a silver at the 2017 worlds. They will be at least co-favorites in 2018 S. Korea.