Annonymously Mailing Religious Pamphlets To An Atheist - Thoughts?

[PeterG]

I had a crappy day today, which included (among other things) sitting and waiting for a bus near an ant hill and unawarely bringing ants onto the bus. Then having people talk for the rest of the ride about the ants all over me (there were only two or three...by that time).

I got home and realized I hadn't checked my mail for a few days. One item in my mailbox was an envelope with no return address. It piqued my interest as the writing looked like it came from a little old lady and I thought maybe someone in my building sent me a card or something as next month is the two year anniversary of my Mom's passing away.

Instead, the envelope had five religious pamphlets in it. Nothing else.

So I get into my apartment, check my clothing for ants, throw all the clothing in a bathtub full of water and take a shower. I still feel dirty. Strangely, not from having ants all over me, but the anonymous religious literature. I don't feel good. Have this awful feeling in the pit of my stomach. Like I'm being watched/monitored.

Just wondering if people had thoughts on this. I'm not really vocal about being an atheist, or gay for that matter. But if the subject comes up, I will be honest. I just find this anonymous mail to be both weird and rather upsetting.

ETA: Here's a photo of the mail:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter5rocks5/25755656733/

 

[Nan]

Sorry you had such a bad day. The ants were bad enough, but to be blindsided by the other garbage is just wrong. I can't stand those little pamphlets, I find them very offensive.

 

[rjblue]

I'm sorry that happened to you. It would feel very creepy to me to have something like that sent anonymously. I'd be upset too.

 

[DAngel]

*hugs Peter*

Did the envelope have your name on it? I've received a religious booklet before, but I assumed it was put inside everyone's mailboxes. I throw it out along with other pamphlets and brochures the post office spam into my mailbox.

 

[Japanfan]

I too would be creeped out and upset.

Evangelical Christians make me very angry - even though I'm not a practicing Jew, I'm still a Jew, and find their attempts to convert/convince me very invasive. One such Christian told me that the Jews denied the existence of Jesus Christ. I replied that something not proven to be true to could not be denied and it was a matter of belief.

Anonymous mail from evangelical Christians is likewise invasive.

 

[AYS]

I agree that this is creepy. As this was personally addressed rather than some sort of bulk spam mailing, I don't blame you if this feels like harassment.

 

[PRlady]

Peter I'm an out atheist like you and would also find it creepy. Just keep an eye on your surroundings for a time and save the envelope.

 

[PeterG]

*hugs Peter*

Did the envelope have your name on it? I've received a religious booklet before, but I assumed it was put inside everyone's mailboxes. I throw it out along with other pamphlets and brochures the post office spam into my mailbox.

My full name and address appear on the envelope and there were the five pamphlets on the inside of the sealed envelope. I checked the recycling box near the mailboxes and didn't see any other pamphlets in there, so I believe I am the sole person who received them.

Peter I'm an out atheist like you and would also find it creepy. Just keep an eye on your surroundings for a time and save the envelope.

I'm keeping it. The awful feeling in the pit of my stomach is starting to go away. Probably because of all your kind words!

By the way, my two oldest sisters are very active in their church and we talk about services and other church activities. From the perspective of an atheist brother and Christian sisters wanting to know each other better. Plus I kept a sign from my Mom's place that says, "God Protect And Bless This House". It sits in my front hallway. Nobody seemed to want it and it didn't seem right to give away. So I kept it as a remembrance and to say to people that while I'm an atheist, I'm not an angry or finger-waving atheist!

 

[DAngel]

My full name and address appear on the envelope and there were the five pamphlets on the inside of the sealed envelope. I checked the recycling box near the mailboxes and didn't see any other pamphlets in there, so I believe I am the sole person who received them.

That is indeed rather creepy...

So I kept it as a remembrance and to say to people that while I'm an atheist, I'm not an angry or finger-waving atheist!

Most of the atheists I know in real life are quite chill But there are a lot of angry, finger-waving atheists on the net though...

 

[Really]

That just sucks, Peter. I would be upset too!

 

[Prancer]

I too would be creeped out and upset.

Evangelical Christians make me very angry - even though I'm not a practicing Jew, I'm still a Jew, and find their attempts to convert/convince me very invasive. One such a Christian told me that the Jews denied the existence of Jesus Christ. I replied that something not proven to be true to could not be denied and it was a matter of belief.

Christianity is a converting religion. It's part of the creed. If they are to follow their beliefs, they have to try to save you from yours, whether you like it or not. Not sure why you singled out evangelicals there .

And I thought the existence of Jesus was pretty much proven? Now whether he was the promised Savior or Son of God or whatever, that's a matter of belief. But that's not the same thing as existence.

My full name and address appear on the envelope and there were the five pamphlets on the inside of the sealed envelope. I checked the recycling box near the mailboxes and didn't see any other pamphlets in there, so I believe I am the sole person who received them.

I know you will find this hard to believe, but if the pamphlets were sent to you personally by someone who knows you (this is not a given), it's probably because the sender considers you a good person, likes you, and wants you to be saved from atheism. And yes, they do see it as being saved from atheism.

Take it like any gift you don't want. The person means well (IF it's someone who knows you).

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

Anonymous gifts belong in the trash. I would feel angry if I got that mail. If you love me enough to feel like I will be saved by junky pamphlets, you better care enough to include an note and name, otherwise it is harassment.

 

[Prancer]

Anonymous gifts belong in the trash. I would feel angry if I got that mail. If you love me enough to feel like I will be saved by junky pamphlets, you better care enough to include an note and name, otherwise it is harassment.

So throw it away. Or burn it. Or do whatever you want to with it.

If you consider it harassment, call the police.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Did it have an address of the organisation they came from on them? If it did I would then send them a return photo of your penis just to brighten their days (I call it the Augusten Burroughs principle).

 

[PeterG]

I know you will find this hard to believe, but if the pamphlets were sent to you personally by someone who knows you (this is not a given), it's probably because the sender considers you a good person, likes you, and wants you to be saved from atheism. And yes, they do see it as being saved from atheism.

Take it like any gift you don't want. The person means well (IF it's someone who knows you).

Thanks. I probably wasn't thinking clearly because of how my day went. Getting that mail was the final straw! The whole ants thing was pretty awful. When I saw a few on the floor, I thought, "honestly, can't the people who clean these buses at the end of the day do a better job"? Then when I saw one crawling on my arm, that was too much and I walked up front and told the bus driver he had a problem. And with time I realized...I was the problem! People must have thought I was some smelly, dirty person to have ants all over me. Yuck!!

Did it have an address of the organisation they came from on them? If it did I would then send them a return photo of your penis just to brighten their days (I call it the Augusten Burroughs principle).

I'm old...I've never taken that kind of photo! (And I don't plan on starting now!!)

 

[Angelskates]

I don't actually understand the anger, nor do I understand why someone would allow themselves to be offended? It's just paper, I would do what I do with all junk mail or mail that I don't want, and put it in the bin, without another thought. I would never even think about how the person got my details, unless you're unlisted, and even then, since it's not a threat, I wouldn't care... There are no phone books here, and I get junk mail all the time. Back home I always got religious mail (personally addressed and not) and I just threw it away.

I would also agree with Prancer that rather than wanting to offend, I would think it's that the person sending you the mail wants you to be saved, and to know something (God) they obviously think is important. If you have some amazing thing in your life, you want to share it. Christians are told to share it. I don't think that means through sending anonymous mail, and I prefer people share it through actions (which I guess this is, though I mean by daily living) than words, but I don't see anything wrong with it. I'd actually prefer mail to door knocking, because it's less confrontational, but even though I don't like either, I'm not offended or angry by either.

I don't get why this person didn't put their name on it. What if you actually want more information about Christianity? I'd rather contact a person for coffee, than a general number on a pamphlet.

I'm sorry that you had a bad day. and hope you got rid of the ants.

 

[Fridge_Break]

I, too, would be a bit angry if I received this in the mail. I have never been a religious person and now identify as an athiest. Back when I was in college I was working a part-time job as a cashier, an older woman came through my line and in the middle of the transaction asked me about "my relationship with Jesus." I was thrown off because I wasn't expecting it, and just said I wasn't very religious. She looked quite offended, reached into her purse, pulled out a pamphlet similar to what Peter got in the mail, and handed it to me while saying, "well... you have time."

 

[twinsissv]

Not only do I (absolute atheist) get the religious tracts and mailings, but every right-wing conservative group in the USA seems to think I'm one of them. HA!
The big red "REFUSED" on the unopened envelope does not deter them one bit. But don't trash yours. They look absolutely gorgeous coming out of the shredder! See? They do serve a purpose for the environmentalist in me.

 

[Matryeshka]

@Prancer , there is a lot of debate amongst historians about the existence of Jesus. A few years ago, the textbook I used in World History was pretty blatant about pointing out that outside of the Bible, there are no credible sources (and the Bible is not exactly a credible source. Primary source, yes, credible, no.) There are no non-Christian contemporary sources. There are non-Christian sources who quote non-Christian sources. The earliest mention I believe is Tacitus, who has a brief mention of Nero blaming Rome on Christians, but that's AFTER the crucifixion of Jesus. Other sources often quoted are Julius Africanus, Thallus, and Phlegon are often mentioned as corroborating sources, but they're not. For one, all were born after the crucifixion of Jesus. For two, in Roman times, the story itself was seen as more important than accuracy. Accuracy was dull and boring and for pedantics. You didn't have to show or cite sources. If you actually slog through the non-Christian sources, it's a lot of "I heard this..." and "someone -us said that" and those are filled with tropes fairly common of ALL Roman historical sources at the time. History was looked at as much the same way we look a folk/fairytales today--their importance is not in their truthfulness, but in their ability to entertain and show a common heritage/value system. Many historians look at the story of Jesus as an almagamation of several stories/legends that grew as they traveled to Rome. As for Rome itself, crucifixions were REALLY common. It was the go-to method of dealing with all sorts of crimes. There would be no reason to make special note of this particular one. There were lots of so-called saviors running around at that time--Rome pissed a lot of people off. There were also a lot of people running around AFTER claiming to be saviors.

None of this means Jesus *didn't* exist either. We teach LOTS of things from history that comes from even more dubious sources. Just because Romans or non-Jews of the time weren't particularly careful about recording irrefutable proof of their observations doesn't mean there wasn't a Jesus. Earlier today, my dog decided he was part-Tarzan. He was chasing a lizard who had the sense to go between the crack in the fences. So, he jumped on a potted plant and attempted to grab the vine growing between the fences and use it to climb up. He was unsuccessful, but he exhausted himself throwing his little outraged puppy body at that vine. I have no way to prove this. I didn't have my phone on me to record it. My mom saw it, but she's hardly a reliable witness. But it did happen (and it was hysterical). But if you doubt it happened, I understand that too.

 

[Prancer]

Perhaps @agalisgv would be willing to address this (again), but I also have a book or two (or four or five) that says the existence of Jesus is accepted by virtually all scholars of antiquity, including a number of atheists. Certainly many professors I know accept this, Christian and otherwise.

 

[el henry]

I don't know any serious classicist who doubts that Jesus existed. And I know quite a few, as spousal unit is University Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Classics and Ancient History (how's that for a great windbag title) at Local Large Private University, with degrees from all the "best" places and 40 years of experience researching and writing on Roman religions. Spousal unit's own opinion that the carpenter's son existed is not based on belief, as he was raised an atheist and doesn't currently practice.

The importance of Jesus, of course, is a matter of belief. I *do* believe and am active in my church on several levels. But this form of "evangelism" is confusing to me, and completely ineffective. And when you are having a crappy day like Peter G., it is even offensive. I'm sorry, Peter, but just throw them out. And if it's anti-gay, it's not even Christian.....

 

[Vash01]

Peter, I am sorry that you had such a bad day.

I am not an atheist but I hate it when someone tries to force their religious beliefs on me, either in person or through mail or flyers on door, etc. I have learned to ignore it. Once someone mailed me a video of something religious. It had my name, address, etc. It was clearly something that I wouldn't be interested in. I never opened the package, but it upset me that someone had tried to force some material on me. I never brought it into my house. I left it in the garage. I may have eventually thrown it away. I lived in Texas many years and there were a few that felt compelled to 'save' me by telling about their wonderful feelings of devotion. I am not against devotion, but it is an individual choice. Somehow some people forget that.

It is upsetting whether you are an atheist or not. My advice is to try to ignore such things. It's not worth losing your peace of mind for. I know it's harder when you have already had a bad day. I hope you are feeling better now.

 

[ballettmaus]

Whether their intentions are good or not, I find mailing someone that kind of material way too personal and invasive of someone's privacy. As Vash said, religion and devotion is an individual choice and if someone rings the doorbell or stops you in the street you can always say no. But you have to open mail in order to know what's in it, so you see the message before you can throw it away.

Peter, I hope you have a much better day tomorrow and can just forget about this one!

 

[Prancer]

Whether their intentions are good or not, I find mailing someone that kind of material way too personal and invasive of someone's privacy. As Vash said, religion and devotion is an individual choice and if someone rings the doorbell or stops you in the street you can always say no. But you have to open mail in order to know what's in it, so you see the message before you can throw it away.

I get approximiately 40 items of junk mail every week. I have yet to consider it invasive or personal, even when it directly conflicts with my personal beliefs.

It's MAIL, for god's sake (pun intended).

 

[Japanfan]

Christianity is a converting religion. It's part of the creed. If they are to follow their beliefs, they have to try to save you from yours, whether you like it or not. Not sure why you singled out evangelicals there .

And that is a problem. Attempts to convert are often inappropriate, offensive, and disrespectful. Christians should be able to understand that. The religion - at least many of its versions - is certainly flexible enough to allow for that kind of respect and tolerance - which in fact reflect the humility and love for thy neighbor that Christians are supposed to cultivate.

How would Christians like it if people who practiced other religions were knocking on their door to convert them because their beliefs are wrong, or sending religious pamphlets to them in the mail?

I say evangelicals in the sense of ardent and enthusiastic Christians. Not all Christians go around trying to convert non-Christians.

I would think it's that the person sending you the mail wants you to be saved, and to know something (God) they obviously think is important. If you have some amazing thing in your life, you want to share it. Christians are told to share it.

Again, that's a problem. Lots of people have passion for social, spiritual and political causes, but know that there are limits to how much they time and energy they should put into sharing those passions with others. And that sometimes they should just keep quiet about those passions - particularly if someone would not welcome them or agree with them.

ETA: I'm referring mostly to people who push Christianity on friends and acquaintances, as well as to the door knockers. I'd find Christian junk mail less irritating - it would just go straight to recycling with the rest of the junk mail.

And I thought the existence of Jesus was pretty much proven? Now whether he was the promised Savior or Son of God or whatever, that's a matter of belief. But that's not the same thing as existence.

In the example I gave above the person was referring to the Jew's denial that Christ was the Messiah and I referred to the same - not a denial that Christ existed.

 

[PeterG]

I get approximiately 40 items of junk mail every week. I have yet to consider it invasive or personal, even when it directly conflicts with my personal beliefs.

It's MAIL, for god's sake (pun intended).

To me, junk mail and a personal letter (or what was sent to me looking exactly like a personal letter) are two different things.

And as far as junk mail goes, I'm not sure I have ever received a piece of junk mail that had any kind of religious theme or message to it.

 

[Angelskates]

To me, junk mail and a personal letter (or what was sent to me looking exactly like a personal letter) are two different things.

And as far as junk mail goes, I'm not sure I have ever received a piece of junk mail that had any kind of religious theme or message to it.

I guess that's the difference. I wouldn't consider this a personal letter at all, just because it was personally addressed. The contents didn't have "Dear PeterG, please come to my church and denounce your atheism. Thanks, .....". Politicians (and plenty of other places/organisations) in Australia personally address, and even write, "Dear (name)" before the same letter they send to everyone trying to get them to vote. I don't consider this personal mail, just because my name (and address) were used, I consider it junk mail and put it straight in the bin.

@Japanfan - Mormons, UU and probably some others, send bulk mail in Australia, and the Mormons door knock. It doesn't bother me at all, and never has. I either throw it straight in the bin or sometimes I read it out of curiosity, and then toss it, and I've had a few interesting conversations with door knockers. I have never been rude, and never been offended. Why should I be? They consider it helping - if it's mail, I can choose to throw it away, and if it's door knockers, I can politely say I'm not interested and ask them to leave. I've never understood those who feel the need to be rude there, either. I'm also never offended when someone offers to carry my shopping because they think it's too heavy for me (even though it's not), but I know some people are. I just choose to think people are doing what they think is right and nice most of the time, and I choose to respond accordingly. I don't think the person sending PeterG mail has malicious intent, and don't consider it inappropriate, offensive, or disrespectful. He's not interested, he can just chuck it out.

@PeterG - would you be offended if the contents of the envelope was an invitation to an interfaith BBQ, or a picnic for atheists?

 

[AliasJohnDoe]

I'm also an Atheist Peter. I understand being apprehensive and offended by the Religious mailings. Especially with no information on where it came from. The radicalization of Religion in the USA (especially the Religious Freedom to discriminate politics and indoctrinization mind set of some religions) has made it "uncomfortable" to be who we are. I'm blessed to have great friends of "all religions" who respect each other enough not to push their religion on others - and wouldn't think of doing so. But I've also witnessed some really radical fundamentalist elements out there to be weary of.

Sleep with one eye open. ....They're coming to get you.

 

[Vash01]

As I mentioned, in Texas I had met people that really wanted me to read what was important to them (religious material). One of them was a good friend that I liked and still like, although we have not communicated in many years now. She gave me a book about Jesus because it was important to her. I didn't particularly like that she did it, but I knew her well enough to not let it spoil our friendship. At another time a Catholic friend gave me something religious as a Christmas present because she thought I would find it interesting. I didn't, but I have another friend who is a devout Catholic. I gave it to her and she was very happy. At yet another time, I was in a difficult situation and some friends of friend of a friend said they prayed for me to show me the power of prayer. That was a little offensive, but I decided to pay attention to only their good intentions (to help me) and leave out the implied arrogance (that they were somehow superior because they prayed).

I think when you know the person(s) perhaps it is easier to digest it, but when a stranger acts like he/she knows what's good for you, it is a bit annoying. I have learned to not let it bother me too much, but if I had a bad day like Peter did, who knows it may bother me a lot!

 

[Japanfan]

I think when you know the person(s) perhaps it is easier to digest it, but when a stranger acts like he/she knows what's good for you, it is a bit annoying.

The situation I described was with a Christian acquaintance who knows I'm Jewish. Even though I'm not practicing, I certainly share the Jewish belief that Jesus Christ was not a Messiah.

Put simply, I think Christians should not impose/force their view of Jesus Christ on us. Especially given that we are their ancestors, and Jesus Christ was one of our boys.