Why isn't Zhulin being banned?

Trillian

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I’m glad they issued a statement (more than I would have expected even a few years ago), but I wish they’d publicly ask the ISU and IOC for a response.

I’m not familiar enough with the rules to know whether they outline specific disciplinary actions that can be taken in a situation like this. The ISU and IOC have seemed pretty toothless in the past. But at bare minimum they should issue statements supporting LeDuc and condemning Zhulin’s remarks, or their so-called commitment to a safe and welcoming environment for people of all gender identities is worthless.
 

Orm Irian

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at bare minimum they should issue statements supporting LeDuc and condemning Zhulin’s remarks, or their so-called commitment to a safe and welcoming environment for people of all gender identities is worthless.
They did that much when that former judge ran his mouth about P/C after Finlandia, though I think only after the French fed got on their backs about it. It took a couple of days, too, IIRC, so even if USFSA is putting pressure on behind the scenes we might not hear anything from them for a day or so.
 

Enchanted

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They did that much when that former judge ran his mouth about P/C after Finlandia, though I think only after the French fed got on their backs about it. It took a couple of days, too, IIRC, so even if USFSA is putting pressure on behind the scenes we might not hear anything from them for a day or so.

The ISU only commented the P/C case because FFSG demanded it and even then it took some time before the ISU did it.
 

Louis

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Is Zhulin affiliated with the ISU in any way -- e.g., as a technical specialist? I don't think so.

While I can understand the ISU taking action against a judge or official who makes statements inconsistent with ISU values, I don't think it's up to the ISU to police what coaches say. The calls for Zhulin to be banned or sanctioned seem a bit much to me. The ISU can certainly denounce the statements, but I'm not sure anything more would be appropriate.
 

sjs5572

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Is Zhulin affiliated with the ISU in any way -- e.g., as a technical specialist? I don't think so.

While I can understand the ISU taking action against a judge or official who makes statements inconsistent with ISU values, I don't think it's up to the ISU to police what coaches say. The calls for Zhulin to be banned or sanctioned seem a bit much to me. The ISU can certainly denounce the statements, but I'm not sure anything more would be appropriate.
The ISU Code of Ethics applies to coaches in matters of discrimination and harassment.

sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.isu.org/docman-document...UQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3F7eU_wKRMsMlSNUWTaqFC
 

MsZem

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The ISU Code of Ethics applies to coaches in matters of discrimination and harassment.

sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.isu.org/docman-document...UQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3F7eU_wKRMsMlSNUWTaqFC
I don't see how the definitions of discrimination and harassment as laid out in that document apply to Zhulin's statements, disgusting as they are.

The ISU should definitely denounce this, as it did after the homophobic comments about Cizeron.
 

Tak

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Doesn't hate speech violate the ISU and Olympic charter?

Okay - I am totally out of the loop I guess - but what on earth is a "non-binary athlete" - do they mean like a computer program?
 

Orm Irian

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Okay - I am totally out of the loop I guess - but what on earth is a "non-binary athlete" - do they mean like a computer program?
On the extremely off chance that you're not "just asking questions": to put it very simply, a non-binary person is a person who identifies as being neither male nor female in terms of gender. Which has nothing to do with what their body looks like, and everything to do with how they experience themself relative to the assumptions made about that body shape and what it means in their society.
 

Louis

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Well, let me be small in return: I hope S/K and H/K bomb spectacularly at the Europeans and for the former, at the Olympics as well.

Why punish skaters for the statements of their coach? What are they supposed to do - immediately leave their coach in the run-up to the Olympics because he made a disgusting comment?
 

Jammers

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Zhulin should absolutely be sanctioned for hate speech, especially since he appears to be doubling down.

But do we really think the ISU will have the spine to sanction Zhulin right before the Olympics? I doubt it.
Yeah the ISU is like the IOC they are just lapdogs when it comes to Russia. Evidently you can be banned multiple times yet keep being allowed to compete at the Olympics state doping be damned.
 

Judy

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There are quite a few countries that don’t recognize gay people etc. My former neighbour’s son is gay, has a long relationship with his partner but when they visit his family in China they have to hide it completely. Could this be a factor with the ISU too because of all the countries involved?
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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There are quite a few countries that don’t recognize gay people etc. My former neighbour’s son is gay, has a long relationship with his partner but when they visit his family in China they have to hide it completely. Could this be a factor with the ISU too because of all the countries involved?
🙄
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
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There are quite a few countries that don’t recognize gay people etc. My former neighbour’s son is gay, has a long relationship with his partner but when they visit his family in China they have to hide it completely. Could this be a factor with the ISU too because of all the countries involved?
Yeah. In our enthusiasm for just causes we tend to forget that other cultures and religions believe differently. I’ve lived in enough conservative societies outside of the USA to know better than to impose Western beliefs on others. Uncle Sam doesn’t need to police the globe. Likewise, people with Zhulin’s beliefs need to STFU when speaking to Int’l media (or any media because it goes around, when one is famous).
 

Judy

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Yeah. In our enthusiasm for just causes we tend to forget that other cultures and religions believe differently. I’ve lived in enough conservative societies outside of the USA to know better than to impose Western beliefs on others. Uncle Sam doesn’t need to police the globe. Likewise, people with Zhulin’s beliefs need to STFU when speaking to Int’l media (or any media because it goes around, when one is famous).
i can’t see the ISU taking a position with this.

In Saudi Arabia they will execute you. Not that we have skaters for this country but it’s definitely not all about North America that’s for sure.
 

Trillian

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Yeah. In our enthusiasm for just causes we tend to forget that other cultures and religions believe differently. I’ve lived in enough conservative societies outside of the USA to know better than to impose Western beliefs on others. Uncle Sam doesn’t need to police the globe.

Well, it’s more than just “Uncle Sam”; the U.S. doesn’t even rank particularly well in terms of LGBTQ-friendly countries around the world. Regardless, the IOC has taken a formal position on this issue, so they have an institutional responsibility to follow through with whatever policies apply. And even if there are no rules that call for anyone to be punished in this scenario, they at minimum have an ethical responsibility to publicly support the athletes they’ve made a commitment to ensuring a fair and welcoming environment to participate in Olympic sports.

In Saudi Arabia they will execute you.

I know they will, that’s one of the reasons some of us don’t hang out there. Unless you’re suggesting that the IOC or ISU should formally endorse that position, I’m not sure why it’s relevant.
 

Judy

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Well, it’s more than just “Uncle Sam”; the U.S. doesn’t even rank particularly well in terms of LGBTQ-friendly countries around the world. Regardless, the IOC has taken a formal position on this issue, so they have an institutional responsibility to follow through with whatever policies apply. And even if there are no rules that call for anyone to be punished in this scenario, they at minimum have an ethical responsibility to publicly support the athletes they’ve made a commitment to ensuring a fair and welcoming environment to participate in Olympic sports.



I know they will, that’s one of the reasons some of us don’t hang out there. Unless you’re suggesting that the IOC or ISU should formally endorse that position, I’m not sure why it’s relevant.
What they say and do can be two different things.

Don’t be ridiculous of course I do not endorse killing people. I used that as an example. Don’t hold your breath for the ISU although.
 

Trillian

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What they say and do can be two different things.

Don’t be ridiculous of course I do not endorse killing people. I used that as an example. Don’t hold your breath for the ISU although.

Okay, but then why bring it up? “The IOC can’t support LGBTQ people because countries that like to execute LGBTQ people will be mad about it.” So what? Why should that factor into any decision-making process?

And I don’t expect the IOC or the ISU to always do the right thing, but that doesn’t mean we stop calling on them to do it.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Is Zhulin affiliated with the ISU in any way -- e.g., as a technical specialist? I don't think so.
Could the ISU take away his coaching credentials?

what on earth is a "non-binary athlete" - do they mean like a computer program?
Um, a computer program would be binary!! 1s and 0s baby. 1s and 0s. ;)

Okay, but then why bring it up? “The IOC can’t support LGBTQ people because countries that like to execute LGBTQ people will be mad about it.” So what? Why should that factor into any decision-making process?
If some of the NGBs that belong to the ISU are in countries where being gay is illegal, they might put pressure on the ISU not to do or say anything. But I still think the ISU should say something because putting out a performative statement denouncing homophobia is the least they could do. So they should do it.
 

caseyedwards

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If Leduc is not a man he is not eligible for pairs

2021/2022 Clarification from Sports Technical Director and Technical Committee PAIR SKATING Group 1 Lift
QUESTION: What part of the Woman’s body needs to remain below the Man’s Shoulder to be called a Group 1 Lift?
ANSWER: At least some part of the Woman’s body must remain below the Man’s Shoulder to be called Group 1 Lift.

Leduc must face ban if not man
 
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