North Korean pair team of Ryom/Kim qualify for the Olympics in South Korea (NYT articles)

[Cleo1782]

One of the purposes of the Olympic movement is to bring athletes together from all over the world. From an Olympic perspective, it is better to include countries that may have only one Senior-level Pair Team than to give a country a second or third entry in the same discipline.

I totally understand that. But it's also about the best of the best as well. I am certainly not saying Kayne/O'Shea (the 1st alternates for the US) are the best of the best, but they are certainly better than, say, the Japanese pair (who didn't even qualify themselves). If K/O or whoever from the US represented AZE and competed at Nebelhorn they'd be in, but obviously there are many pairs left at home due to the country they represent (I/M-Canada, A/R-Russia for example, but these countries maxed out on entries). I am more concerned about the rules, where IMO, the US should have picked up a 2nd spot along the way. I just believe if Sk/k finished 12th that would be it for the US, but with this weird shift of giving spots there should be consideration. I would say the same for Mexico or Kaz or South Africa or wherever if that's the way last years world's went..

 

[Vagabond]

I am more concerned about the rules, where IMO, the US should have picked up a 2nd spot along the way.

But the Rules say that sixteen spots are selected according to finishing order at Worlds, four according to finishing order at the qualifying competition (Nebelhorn), and one to the host country if it has skaters with the minimum TES and didn't otherwise qualify.

It is theoretically possible for the first sixteen spots to be allocated without reaching the tenth-place team at Worlds.

For example (with hypothetical teams):

Federation 1: One Pair, finishing 1st at Worlds. 3 entries
Federation 2: One Pair, finishing 2nd at Worlds. 3 entries
Federation 3: Two or more Pairs, highest finishing 3rd and 9th Worlds, 3 entries
Federation 4: Two or more Pairs, highest finishing 4th and 8th at Worlds, 3 entries
Federation 5: Two Pairs, finishing 5th and 12th at Worlds, 2 entries
Federation 6: Two Pairs, finishing 6th and 11th at Worlds, 2 entries
Federation 7: One or more Pairs, highest finishing 7th at Worlds, 2 entries.
Federation 8: One Pair, finishing 10th at Worlds.

Under this hypothetical, neither Federation 7 nor Federation 8 would qualify through Worlds, and both would have go through Nebelhorn, even though both would have earned two Pairs entries at the following year's Worlds.

Do you have any particular reason why (if we start with the premises that there are only twenty Olympic entries available) the Rule should be that the first seventeen entries, instead of the first sixteen, be selected a Worlds? Or why only three entries should be decided at the qualifying competition?

 

[misskarne]

I am more concerned about the rules, where IMO, the US should have picked up a 2nd spot along the way.

Well no, because that's not what the rules said.

By the way, four of the five pairs that qualified at Nebelhorn (including the North Koreans) AND the Japanese pair all beat the #2 US pair at Worlds. So...maybe if the US wanted two pairs spots, having both pairs make the FS might have been a good start.

 

[kwanfan1818]

And if they get it back, that's really sad for those who were told they would get it who will now lose it. Maybe the IOC can just add an extra team. There are so few pairs.

The spot that JPN got when PRK didn't file the paperwork in time is an ISU replacement spot; PRK lost that spot when it didn't claim it. The spot that KOR is getting is an ISU host spot. The spot that PRK is getting is an additional IOC wild card spot, outside the ISU processes.

 

[Cleo1782]

But the Rules say that sixteen spots are selected according to finishing order at Worlds, four according to finishing order at the qualifying competition (Nebelhorn), and one to the host country if it has skaters with the minimum TES and didn't otherwise qualify.

It is theoretically possible for the first sixteen spots to be allocated without reaching the tenth-place team at Worlds.

For example (with hypothetical teams):

Federation 1: One Pair, finishing 1st at Worlds. 3 entries
Federation 2: One Pair, finishing 2nd at Worlds. 3 entries
Federation 3: Two or more Pairs, highest finishing 3rd and 9th Worlds, 3 entries
Federation 4: Two or more Pairs, highest finishing 4th and 8th at Worlds, 3 entries
Federation 5: Two Pairs, finishing 5th and 12th at Worlds, 2 entries
Federation 6: Two Pairs, finishing 6th and 11th at Worlds, 2 entries
Federation 7: One or more Pairs, highest finishing 7th at Worlds, 2 entries.
Federation 8: One Pair, finishing 10th at Worlds.

Under this hypothetical, neither Federation 7 nor Federation 8 would qualify through Worlds, and both would have go through Nebelhorn, even though both would have earned two Pairs entries at the following year's Worlds.

Do you have any particular reason why (if we start with the premises that there are only twenty Olympic entries available) the Rule should be that the first seventeen entries, instead of the first sixteen, be selected a Worlds? Or why only three entries should be decided at the qualifying competition?

Whatever let's just take all the Nebelhorn qualifiers for the "Olympic spirit".... The teams that can barely lift, jump, or do anything pair related because it's the rules........Shoving the the ISU rules at me is to me. I understand them. I really can't go on and on why I think it's unfair.

 

[Cleo1782]

Well no, because that's not what the rules said.

By the way, four of the five pairs that qualified at Nebelhorn (including the North Koreans) AND the Japanese pair all beat the #2 US pair at Worlds. So...maybe if the US wanted two pairs spots, having both pairs make the FS might have been a good start.

The Japanese pair that isn't skating at the Olympics....and did not beat our first alternate. Agreed Haven and Brandon should have made the freeskate, but the random pair from Japan that has citizenship should feel lucky

The bottom line is these pairs should just go represent random countries because then they will qualify

 

[kwanfan1818]

It is possible to have six skaters/teams from six different countries earning 18 spots for Worlds by earning 3 each:

• One skater/team placing first, no other entries (3 spots)
• One skater/team placing second, no other entries (3 spots)
• Two skaters/teams placing 3/10 (3 spots)*
• Two skaters/teams place 4/9 (3 spots)
• Two skaters/teams placing 5/8 (3 spots)
• Two skaters/teams placing 6/7 (3 spots)

It is also possible to have three skater/teams from three more countries earning an additional 6 spots for Worlds by earning 2 each:

• Two skaters/teams placing 11th and making the FS (2 spots)
• Two skaters/teams placing 12th and making the FS (2 spots)
• Two skaters/teams placing 13th and either 14th or 15th (2 spots)

If this happens in Pairs, the last member earning three for Worlds would earn one spot for the Olympics, and all members who earned two for Worlds would have to qualify at Nebelhorn.

If this happens in Dance, all earning three get three and only the first earning two gets two for the Olympics, and the second and third members earning two would have to qualify at Nebelhorn.

If this happens in Singles, all earning three or two get their three or two for the Olympics.

*It's possible for seven or more teams to have two competitors each, even in Pairs, going into qualifying Worlds.

 

[misskarne]

Whatever let's just take all the Nebelhorn qualifiers for the "Olympic spirit".... The teams that can barely lift, jump, or do anything pair related because it's the rules........Shoving the the ISU rules at me is to me. I understand them. I really can't go on and on why I think it's unfair.

Hahahahahahahaha

Yeah, it's totally in my imagination that all those pairs at Nebelhorn were doing SBS triples. Totally in my imagination that Katia and Harley can do Th3Lz. Totally in my imagination that Harley posted that video of them doing an off-ice quad twist.

But yeah, all those pairs at Nebelhorn can't even do pairs stuff. Not like there's a TES minimum for Olympics or anything.

 

[Cleo1782]

Hahahahahahahaha

Yeah, it's totally in my imagination that all those pairs at Nebelhorn were doing SBS triples. Totally in my imagination that Katia and Harley can do Th3Lz. Totally in my imagination that Harley posted that video of them doing an off-ice quad twist.

But yeah, all those pairs at Nebelhorn can't even do pairs stuff. Not like there's a TES minimum for Olympics or anything.

Umm. Clearly I was posting about Harley and Katia......who won the event among non qualifying teams.. Have you read my post? I was talking about teams that did not qualify....... Whatever to each their own agenda. I get rules spouted at me and nonsense about other teams. Apparently my point isn't clear. Moving on! Go team Belarus in the pair event!!!!

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Apparently my point isn't clear. Moving on!

It has been clear since post number one. And some don't agree. And you keep your hammering still few posts later. We got your point.

 

[misskarne]

Have you read my post? I was talking about teams that did not qualify....... Whatever to each their own agenda.

No, you weren't. And if we're talking about teams that did not qualify, we're back to the US #2 who did not qualify.

 

[Cleo1782]

It has been clear since post number one. And some don't agree. And you keep your hammering still few posts later. We got your point.

Thanks for chiming in

 

[Cleo1782]

No, you weren't. And if we're talking about teams that did not qualify, we're back to the US #2 who did not qualify.

I was always talking about teams from Obersdorf that didn't qualify. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I still believe a US #2 should have qualified with the weird rules... And you know what I am a card carrying die hard Max fan til the end. I was devastated for Max at Nationals, so this belongs no where in this thread but (((((((Max))))))))
My overall point is I get it. I understand. No disrespect to anyone. No displacing teams that qualify, but if there is another group the US should be invited.

Love the condescending sarcasm though......

 

[VGThuy]

@Cleo1782, I suggest you stop. We all heard your case and I believe it can rest now. Some of us actually agree with you when it comes to the procedural shortcoming of the rule even though we also see the validity of the counterpoint's arguments as well. You're not going to convince any more people and this thread should just be about the North Korean pairs team and their participation in Pyeongchang. You're also giving some people the opportunity to crap on American pairs teams. Even if you constantly say this isn't about America but the rules as written and how in practice it gave more opportunities to countries that didn't originally qualify at Nebelhorn a spot at the Olympics and how the reason that prevented the U.S. from gaining a second spot no longer existed once France gave up its spot, some will just make it all about American entitlement and how crappy our pairs are. I'm tired of seeing posts about how crappy our American pairs skaters are written in a mean-spirited tone after having to sit through it at almost every competition PBP this season. We get it already. Please stop giving them the opportunity to continue doing that.

 

[Cleo1782]

@Cleo1782, I suggest you stop. We all heard your case and I believe it can rest now. Some of us actually agree with you when it comes to the procedural shortcoming of the rule even though we also see the validity of the counterpoint's arguments as well. You're not going to convince any more people and this thread should just be about the North Korean pairs team and their participation in Pyeongchang. You're also giving some people the opportunity to crap on American pairs teams. Even if you constantly say this isn't about America but the rules as written and how in practice it gave more opportunities to countries that didn't originally qualify at Nebelhorn a spot at the Olympics and how the reason that prevented the U.S. from gaining a second spot no longer existed once France gave up its spot, some will just make it all about American entitlement and how crappy our pairs are. I'm tired of seeing posts about how crappy our American pairs skaters are written in a mean-spirited tone after having to sit through it at almost every competition PBP this season. We get it already. Please stop giving them the opportunity to continue doing that.

Correct. I agree. I really like the PRK team, so sorry for the interruption. I hope they compete to the best of their abilities. They deserve it.

 

[Skittl1321]

The spot that JPN got when PRK didn't file the paperwork in time is an ISU replacement spot; PRK lost that spot when it didn't claim it. The spot that KOR is getting is an ISU host spot. The spot that PRK is getting is an additional IOC wild card spot, outside the ISU processes.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sylvia]

Jeré Longman was interviewed about the North Korean pair team for this Jan. 7th NPR podcast while he was covering U.S. Nationals - link to the audio plus transcript: https://www.npr.org/2018/01/07/576301197/north-koreas-olympic-skaters

 

[Sylvia]

It's officially official:

Figure Skating: The IOC allocated an additional quota place, after the registration deadline had expired, to the qualified figure skating pair (RYOM Tae-ok and KIM Ju-sik) from the NOC of the DPRK.

UNIFIED KOREAN OLYMPIC TEAM TO MARCH AT OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES PYEONGCHANG 2018 (Jan. 20, 2018): https://www.olympic.org/news/unifie...arch-at-olympic-winter-games-pyeongchang-2018

 

[SmallFairy]

http://sok.se/arkiv-for-artiklar/2018-01-22-nordkorea-skickar-22-deltagare-till-os.html

The Swedish Olympic commitee writes on their website that it's settled that North Korea will send 22 athletes to OG. Swede Gunilla Lindberg is a member of the headboard of IOC and also the one who is responsible for the implementation of the OG in Korea. She says:

"It's been a dizzy journey being a part of the three year long discussions about NKs participitation in SK and also being a part of the delegation in the two day meeting in Lausanne. The deal we signed with the Olympic committees from NK and SK was historic and involved lots of emotions. It shows the strength that lies in sport and above all the Olympic sport, and its ability to build bridges between countries".

The article explains about the athletes:
"After the unique negotiations IOC will allow NK to send more athletes than what the country had qualified. The only NK who had qualified according to rules is a figure skating pair. Now the country will even send 12 woman's hockey players (joint team with SK!!), three alpine skiiers, two short track skater and three cross country skiiers. They will also send 45 coaches etc and journalists".

So, it looks like Ryum/Kim will go!!! YAY!!!

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I wonder if Ryum/Kim should/will participate in the team event. I think that sounds like a very good idea.

 

[Skittl1321]

I wonder if Ryum/Kim should/will participate in the team event. I think that sounds like a very good idea.

That's a very interesting point. I hadn't thought about Korea for the team event. Does SK have a dance team?

I am glad they are going. And I think NK participation goes a long way for the safety of all the athletes at the games.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

They do. I don't think they qualified for the individual event, but can go as "tourists" to the team event. R/K are better in any case, even omitting the symbolism of it.

 

[skatingguy]

That's a very interesting point. I hadn't thought about Korea for the team event. Does SK have a dance team?

I am glad they are going. And I think NK participation goes a long way for the safety of all the athletes at the games.

They do. I don't think they qualified for the individual event, but can go as "tourists" to the team event. R/K are better in any case, even omitting the symbolism of it.

South Korea earned entries in Team Event, Men's, Ladies', & Ice Dance, and was given a host spot in the Pairs event.

 

[Skittl1321]

They do. I don't think they qualified for the individual event, but can go as "tourists" to the team event. R/K are better in any case, even omitting the symbolism of it.

Oh, I know that the North Korean pairs are better... but they wouldn't qualify for the team event without a unified team. But even without the symbolism of a unified team, I'm glad NK athletes are participating at all.

South Korea earned entries in Team Event, Men's, Ladies', & Ice Dance, and was given a host spot in the Pairs event.

Thanks! I'm not familiar with their dancers, I would have thought it was a host spot if they had a team. Good for them for earning their own spot.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Alex Kam did a CBC Radio interview where the transcript said this:

If the skating teams had also been blended, then Kam and his partner would almost certainly have lost their qualifying position to their North Korean rivals. They'd be benched. So he's sympathetic to the hockey players.

So it looks like the team will not be blended and I would strongly disagree if they did such a thing. However, having Ryom/Kim cheering with them in the KnC during the Team Event would be nice.

 

[VGThuy]

Alex Kam did a CBC Radio interview where the transcript said this:



So it looks like the team will not be blended and I would strongly disagree if they did such a thing. However, having Ryom/Kim cheering with them in the KnC during the Team Event would be nice.

I agree. I would rather Kim/Kam still be able to do the team event while Ryom/Kim compete individually.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Would be nice if IOC made an exception for the team event, and let both "sides" skate as one country..... which it was (and is), until 2 mighty powers butted in..

 

[VGThuy]

Would be nice if IOC made an exception for the team event, and let both "sides" skate as one country..... which it was (and is), until 2 mighty powers butted in..

I'm afraid if that happened than Kim/Kam would lose out on their chance to compete.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'm afraid if that happened than Kim/Kam would lose out on their chance to compete.

I mean "same country" only for a team event. The singles event it all goes back to 2 states, each skating for KOR and PRK individually.

 

[VGThuy]

I mean "same country" only for a team event. The singles event it all goes back to 2 states, each skating for KOR and PRK individually.

KOR didn't quality individually so Kim/Kam could only compete through the Team Event and if the Korea will be one country for the TE then PRK's team will have to do it since they qualified individually and thus Kim/Kam won't be able to.