When Nicky and Simon misstep, they misstep.

[tony]

lol, I can see how that might sound derogatory from a fan's perspective.

Well, you've kind of sucked for as long as I can remember, but this was an improvement.

That's a stretch if you actually watch the video, though. He said they medaled at Worlds in 2011 and hadn't had that kind of success since. But both programs in 2016, in his opinion, showed more personality from her than the previous years. And if you recall back to those days, that was pretty much the universal sentiment with them that season.

I just expected, based on what had been written by VG a few times, that Hanretty went on the attack for the entire program kind of like Blumberg did in 1998 Worlds for Bourne/Kraatz (which was hilarious yet warranted, don't get me wrong), but this wasn't anything like that.

ETA with another example- I believe it was Rakhamo/Kokko's 1995 free dance (Beatles muzak) that Barbara Underhill and Paul Martini absolutely destroyed - for some of the same reasons they raved about B/K.

 

[Aussie Willy]

For what it is worth, I think it was Simon Reed who nailed it at SLC 2002 when he said the French judge was out of step with the voting blocs immediately after the pairs event.

 

[hoptoad]

That's a stretch if you actually watch the video, though. He said they medaled at Worlds in 2011 and hadn't had that kind of success since. But both programs in 2016, in his opinion, showed more personality from her than the previous years. And if you recall back to those days, that was pretty much the universal sentiment with them that season.

I just expected, based on what had been written by VG a few times, that Hanretty went on the attack for the entire program kind of like Blumberg did in 1998 Worlds for Bourne/Kraatz (which was hilarious yet warranted, don't get me wrong), but this wasn't anything like that.

ETA with another example- I believe it was Rakhamo/Kokko's 1995 free dance (Beatles muzak) that Barbara Underhill and Paul Martini absolutely destroyed - for some of the same reasons they raved about B/K.

I didn't watch the video.

I did see Mark commentate on one event this season and liked him. I just thought from reading the comment that an uber could certainly interpret it negatively.

 

[allezfred]

For what it is worth, I think it was Simon Reed who nailed it at SLC 2002 when he said the French judge was out of step with the voting blocs immediately after the pairs event.

Couldn’t watch Eurosport that year, but Barry Davies on the BBC said that too. Said more about figure skating judging back then than any type of unique commentator insight innit.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Couldn’t watch Eurosport that year, but Barry Davies on the BBC said that too. Said more about figure skating judging back then than any type of unique commentator insight innit.

Actually I think it was Barry Davis, not Simon Reed. Thanks for the correction.

 

[sap5]

That’s funny because during his first time commenting ice dance at Worlds 2016, I wondered why he was so nasty towards the Shibs during the SD where he attributed their success to the USFS politicking. In a later interview, I found out that he thought Madison Chock was the best female ice dancer competing.

I remember John Kerr saying that Chock was as good a dancer as Madi Hubbell and Tessa Virtue, but I don’t remember where Hanretty said this.

 

[Yuri]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. A week later, Meagan seems to be taking it all in stride with good humor and has even embraced her TBFC status like a badge of honor on her Twitter page!

https://twitter.com/mhjd_85/status/1508442610188402690?t=g7f9y-RLL1qt01GY80F2Iw&s=19

Hopefully she will take up Simon's offer for a beer summit. From the comments here, clearly there is no long-standing feud or animous among the parties, such as negative commentary about Meagan when she was still competing. Meagan clarified that she didn't ask for the ISU to fire them and not only accepted Simon's apology, but said it wasn't even necessary. Very classy and kudos to her.

Interesting that some noted the nearly unhinged bashing of Grishuk & Platov by Tracy Wilson back in the 1990s, a commentator who otherwise I enjoy. Plus I understand she has mellowed on G&P since those days. Still, I can attest her comments, as well as the piling on by Verne Lundquist (a fabulous, legendary play-by-play announcer for college football and analyst for PGA golf, who in his retirement works only The Masters), were very hurtful to G&P even to this day. I agree that a skating commentator can't really influence the judging of an event (except maybe by promoting a bloc judging story line prior to and during an event...), it's mostly an impact with fans of the skaters' popularity for tours and shows. Tracy's comments weren't helpful for a successful career in North America for G&P, which I find unfortunate.

Back to Nicky & Simon, now it seems like TBFC was almost like an inside joke or an odd term of endearment or even respect for a very strong, successful, accomplished woman. As Simon says (couldn't resist!), it's all context and I think he sincerely regrets his hot mic comments. Subsequent comments on social media point to a mutual professional respect among them, still allowing for honest criticism of the ISU for not hiring announcers with stronger technical analysis skills for its feed. Like Verne Lundquist, a great play-by-play guy generally but with limited figure skating knowledge, it seems Simon's strength must be for sports other than figure skating.

 

[miffy]

Actually I think it was Barry Davis, not Simon Reed. Thanks for the correction.

I watched it on Eurosport, and Chris and Simon were both unhappy with the result, particularly Simon couldn’t understand it. I’d only been following skating a couple of years and I think their commentary had a lot to do with my views at the time, now I know more about skating I would probably agree with the original result but at the time I was at it…

 

[Aussie Willy]

I watched it on Eurosport, and Chris and Simon were both unhappy with the result, particularly Simon couldn’t understand it. I’d only been following skating a couple of years and I think their commentary had a lot to do with my views at the time, now I know more about skating I would probably agree with the original result but at the time I was at it…

So it was Simon?

 

[miffy]

So it was Simon?

Sorry, no! I worded it badly. Should have said I watched the Olympics. From memory nothing was said about individual judges, just the judging as a whole.

 

[VGThuy]

I've seen you bring up S/S 2016 Worlds several times, so I found a video of Mark's commentary from that SD and he was pretty complimentary towards them, saying that was the most personality she had shown in any of the 5 senior seasons and pointed out some of the technical strengths they had ('perfect synchronization', for example). He also mentioned the hype they had built that season and they could potentially play spoilers for gold at that Worlds- nothing about the USFS though? The only thing I can hear is that he said he personally liked the interpretation of Madison and Evan better. Am I missing something (such as him saying something during other skaters)?

He didn’t mention USFS per se but he and Nicky kept talking about hometown crowd, which is fair if it was only that but it wasn’t. During Chock/Bates’ dance during the scoring, Nicky questioned the Shibs’ 74+ score after Mark went on about behind-the-scenes dynamics changing alluding to Fed hierarchy and support changing and was saddened that Chock/Bates were perceived to have lost their no. 1 US status that season after the Shibs won the US title and 4CC. Mark laughed along with Nicky’s questioning and said the Shibs’ score was only hometown cooking.

During the Shibs’ skate Mark and Nicky talked about how they were “only” fourth at the GPF but mentioned their rise in the second half of the season moving towards Worlds and used loaded words like hype and social media to make it sound like there was an artificial push for the Shibs that made their rise less-than-legitimate and was the explanation for such an inexplicable rise. It’s easy to brush it off as them just talking about fanfare but given the context of everything else they said and how Nicky said how the “hype worked” when the Shibs got first place at the moment with a then big score of 74+ with Mark being in agreement and then their follow-up remarks during Chock/Bates skate, it was kind of clear they had an axe to grind but were too smart to pull a Wilson on G/P or a Blumberg on B/K.

I already know how some will take this coming from me as I’m sure some of you have already brushed me off as an uber and think I’m overly sensitive so you need to correct me with your “objective” and “fair” readings of what happened. All I have to say is that one doesn’t have to be super obvious to show super bias. I kind of feeling like a plaintiff in a discrimination case who has to explain why her management’s seemingly innocuous statements weren’t actually innocuous and and there was hidden animus based on certain actions and words hidden behind pretext.

 

[tony]

I already know how some will take this coming from me as I’m sure some of you have already brushed me off as an uber and think I’m overly sensitive so you need to correct me with your “objective” and “fair” readings of what happened. All I have to say is that one doesn’t have to be super obvious to show super bias. I kind of feeling like a plaintiff in a discrimination case who has to explain why her management’s seemingly innocuous statements weren’t actually innocuous and and there was hidden animus based on certain actions and words hidden behind pretext.

Yeah, but to clarify: in the post I quoted, you said this all stemmed from commentary during the SD- so rather than telling you that you were wrong, I went and watched that specific program from the Shibs and heard none of such regarding 'USFS politics' or anything remotely close to 'nasty' commentary. It's also why I asked if there were other comments somewhere else in the broadcast. So if we want to go the legal talk route, I was directed to evidence that didn't match what point you were claiming

But.. then I watched C/B's program and Hanretty was quick to point out a twizzle flaw and likely dropped level. He also said he personally felt Evan performed cautiously as a pressure of trying to regain US number one status. The end of the clip I saw has Nicky or whoever the other one is saying he thought the Shibs score was high and maybe a hometown boost and Hanretty said 'You do have to question whether hometown advantage plays into the judges opinions'. That seemed, to me, like a pretty broad statement rather than him taking it out on the Shibs. And doesn't everyone on FSU know that such a phenomenon probably does exist anyways?

I think it's clear that they preferred Madison and Evan more than the Shibs, but I'm still not getting any kind of 'so nasty' vibes that you were talking about, and I still haven't heard anything referring to USFS politics (I don't think hometown audience means that at all) so maybe you got that idea from some other part of the broadcast? The clip does cut off right at the end of their score being displayed, though. I would love to find a full(er) broadcast and see what else was said, because Hanretty in each and every event I've watched has been a wealth of information, a wealth of skating history and results, and always seems to have fair points without being nasty.

ETA - This is what I thought I was getting into

1995 European Figure Skating Championships Men Short Free Dance

www.youtube.com

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

He didn’t mention USFS per se but he and Nicky kept talking about hometown crowd, which is fair if it was only that but it wasn’t. During Chock/Bates’ dance during the scoring, Nicky questioned the Shibs’ 74+ score after Mark went on about behind-the-scenes dynamics changing alluding to Fed hierarchy and support changing and was saddened that Chock/Bates were perceived to have lost their no. 1 US status that season after the Shibs won the US title and 4CC. Mark laughed along with Nicky’s questioning and said the Shibs’ score was only hometown cooking.

During the Shibs’ skate Mark and Nicky talked about how they were “only” fourth at the GPF but mentioned their rise in the second half of the season moving towards Worlds and used loaded words like hype and social media to make it sound like there was an artificial push for the Shibs that made their rise less-than-legitimate and was the explanation for such an inexplicable rise. It’s easy to brush it off as them just talking about fanfare but given the context of everything else they said and how Nicky said how the “hype worked” when the Shibs got first place at the moment with a then big score of 74+ with Mark being in agreement and then their follow-up remarks during Chock/Bates skate, it was kind of clear they had an axe to grind but were too smart to pull a Wilson on G/P or a Blumberg on B/K.

I already know how some will take this coming from me as I’m sure some of you have already brushed me off as an uber and think I’m overly sensitive so you need to correct me with your “objective” and “fair” readings of what happened. All I have to say is that one doesn’t have to be super obvious to show super bias. I kind of feeling like a plaintiff in a discrimination case who has to explain why her management’s seemingly innocuous statements weren’t actually innocuous and and there was hidden animus based on certain actions and words hidden behind pretext.

Wow that is some real tea. Thanks for sharing. I never saw any of their commentary for the 2016 worlds.

It is also a change of course for them in this case, since I seem to recall in the early days of Chock & Bates (2012-2013) some of their commentary I heard them being anti Evan Bates and anti Chock/Bates for his "dumping" Emily Samuelson for Madison.

Nicky has always been a strange and unprofessional commentary, while Simon is bad when he doesn't have Chris or someone like him to reign him in.