Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[Vagabond]

Given the context I doubt if much of any part of it came from her. I'm sure she was told exactly what to say and thoroughly rehearsed and threatened if she went off script.
russia is, unfortunately, that kind of place and russian sports federations have a long history of using and throwing away people at the bottom and even potential gold medalists are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

According to the decision, Eugenia Tarasova rode in the train compartment with Valieva from Moscow to St. Petersburg, gave evidence, and never mentioned the strawberry dessert. To me, this suggests that Valieva made up the story on her own.

 

[skipaway]

According to the decision, Eugenia Tarasova road in the train compartment with Valieva from Moscow to St. Petersburg, gave evidence, and never mentioned the strawberry dessert. To me, this suggests that Valieva made up the story on her own.

If I ever had to make up an excuse (lie)…I’d substitute chocolate for strawberry. Everyone would believe a chocolate dessert was worth a train trip to have.

 

[Judy]

If I ever had to make up an excuse (lie)…I’d substitute chocolate for strawberry. Everyone would believe a chocolate dessert was worth a train trip to have.

Strawberries for me with whipped cream. It’s also not credible to believe chocolate can be easy doped lol. I’d eat the strawberries at once though lol.

 

[cholla]

Metoclopramide relieves nausea, vomiting and reflux.

The only people I have seen taking Metoclopramide (in France and Switzerland) had cancer and the medicine was designed to help them not vomiting after chemo. It is a very potent antiemetic that you are not given just because you have a simple stomach bug.

Voltaren is a pain killer for arthritis, but appears to have been taken off the market.

It's still available and widely used in Europe. As it can dig huge ulcers in your stomach, you are almost automatically prescribed acid inhibitors at the same time.

 

[Judy]

Overall, their testimony was an all a lie and not even close to being believable. Guaranteed the other girls doing quads were doped too .. but you have to catch them. Trusova’s and Shcherbakova will remain with them.

 

[Mafke]

To me, this suggests that Valieva made up the story on her own

Sweet summer child....

 

[sjs5572]

Overall, their testimony was an all a lie and not even close to being believable. Guaranteed the other girls doing quads were doped too .. but you have to catch them. Trusova’s and Shcherbakova will remain with them.

I am sure that Eteri is pissed at Kamila for not stopping her "supplements" the required number of days before competition. I can hear her now, "the other girls could follow directions, why couldn't you?"

 

[skatingfan5]

I am sure that Eteri is pissed at Kamila for not stopping her "supplements" the required number of days before competition. I can hear her now, "the other girls could follow directions, why couldn't you?"

You think that Valieva or any of Eteri’s girls were given charge of self-administering their “supplements” and medications? I don’t.

 

[Vagabond]

Sweet summer child....

You think that Valieva or any of Eteri’s girls were given charge of self-administering their “supplements” and medications? I don’t.

There seems to be a supposition that the all-controlling Russian sports combine does everything evil and that the poor, benighted athletes have no choice, do what they are told, and suspect nothing. The chances are that the state, coaches, and doctors do not control every last detail of athletes' lives and that the athletes are neither so innocent nor so ignorant as people suppose.

 

[skatingfan5]

There seems to be a supposition that the all-controlling Russian sports combine does everything evil and that the poor, benighted athlete have no choice, do what they are told, and suspect nothing. The chances are that the state, coaches, and doctors do not control every last detail of athletes' lives and that the athletes are neither so innocent nor so ignorant as people suppose.

I guess I thought that there would be some prescribed regimen for the timing, dosage, and monitoring of levels of, especially, banned substances like TMZ. If not, I guess it’s not surprising that there was a failed doping test. <shrug>

 

[marbri]

I guess I thought that there would be some prescribed regimen for the timing, dosage, and monitoring of levels of, especially, banned substances like TMZ. If not, I guess it’s not surprising that there was a failed doping test. <shrug>

I think there is. But maybe Kamila drank an extra ounce of water and peed too soon for the expected drug testing. We have heard of her skaters being held up in doping for hours because they couldn't squeeze out a 100 ml sample.

 

[Orm Irian]

I think there is. But maybe Kamila drank an extra ounce of water and peed too soon for the expected drug testing. We have heard of her skaters being held up in doping for hours because they couldn't squeeze out a 100 ml sample.

Given that Eteri et al's answer to every issue with a skater is "lose weight", it's also possible that Valieva's weight just dropped below what her dosage was calculated for and so it couldn't clear out of her system in time for her to clear the test as usual. Which would be the most bleakly ironic thing imaginable if only Eteri et al had experienced any sort of meaningful fallout or sanction from this whole affair...

 

[Alilou]

I remember someone saying at the time that Valieva had been ill and that this could have affected how the drug passed through her system

 

[ignosk8er]

I pasted this section into a spreadsheet and sorted it alphabetically. A couple of the substances were listed two or three times, so I wish that the authors had checked for that.

Then, it is fun to google some of the supplements. For example, Gorpils are throat lozenges. Metoclopramide relieves nausea, vomiting and reflux. Voltaren is a pain killer for arthritis, but appears to have been taken off the market.

Voltaren may not be available in Russia but you can buy both the oral and topical gel on Amazon so I assume it's readily available at retail stores in the US.

When I read that brand name I assumed she used the topical. It's an NSAID, like ibuprofen, and has significant digestive and cardiac side effects. As a kidney patient, I use the topical for pain relief because it can be applied to specific areas. I can't take the oral.

 

[nlloyd]

I think there is. But maybe Kamila drank an extra ounce of water and peed too soon for the expected drug testing. We have heard of her skaters being held up in doping for hours because they couldn't squeeze out a 100 ml sample.

Or perhaps she didn't drink enough water and the TMZ wasn't flushed out of her body as quickly as they thought? We know Tutberidze limits the water intake of her skaters, which in relation to the number of drugs they take, is even more reprehensible. The skaters' kidneys need help processing the drugs, but they are simultaneously having to limit their water intake.

 

[marbri]

Given that Eteri et al's answer to every issue with a skater is "lose weight", it's also possible that Valieva's weight just dropped below what her dosage was calculated for and so it couldn't clear out of her system in time for her to clear the test as usual. Which would be the most bleakly ironic thing imaginable if only Eteri et al had experienced any sort of meaningful fallout or sanction from this whole affair...

Or perhaps she didn't drink enough water and the TMZ wasn't flushed out of her body as quickly as they thought? We know Tutberidze limits the water intake of her skaters, which in relation to the number of drugs they take, is even more reprehensible. The skaters' kidneys need help processing the drugs, but they are simultaneously having to limit their water intake.

Tomato, tomahto. I think we are all saying the same thing ie... that camp has a very strict regiment that controls weight and food/water intake that is soooo strict that I think the reason for that is related to testing. Any slight deviation can throw off their formula.

 

[MacMadame]

Voltaren is a pain killer for arthritis, but appears to have been taken off the market.

I just put some on my back this morning. and some on my shoulder which I injured. While it is something you put in a particular spot, it does get into your system so even the gel form could show up in a test.

 

[CantALoop]

Also maybe I'm talking out of my ass rn, but surely part of the reason that camp is such an eating disorder factory is that most steroids cause hunger and weight gain, and if you are already being deprived enough food with that also in the mix it's a wonder any of these children survive.

We only see the survivors of the Eteri regimen in competitions. I shudder to think of how many little girls and boys we don't know about who were put through the same and never made it through Sambo 70 and onto social media or broadcasts.

I go with what Nathan said on NBC. No, athletes do not take a lot of supplements, but when they do they are responsible for know what the interactions may be
Imagine how hard clean athletes have to work to compete against those who dope

Ashley Wagner and Adam Ripon were talking about this on their podcast last week. I’m paraphrasing, but they basically said they were afraid to ingest anything. They stayed away from poppyseed muffins, they worried about protein shakes and multi vitamins.

I find it really hard to believe that most athletes in the USA are taking all kinds of supplements for this very reason. The risk of ingesting something banned by accident is just too high to do it.

Mr. Cantaloop and several of my students were NCAA athletes. They all said they couldn't take any medicine (even OTC cold medicines) without running it by their team doctor and coaches. US athletes need to watch everything they put in their bodies - ask Jessica Calalang (still about that). Any athlete would be foolish if they took random supplements, given how many were found to be contaminated with hormones thanks to the looser FDA regulations regarding supplements vs. pharmaceuticals.

 

[PRlady]

I pasted this section into a spreadsheet and sorted it alphabetically. A couple of the substances were listed two or three times, so I wish that the authors had checked for that.

Then, it is fun to google some of the supplements. For example, Gorpils are throat lozenges. Metoclopramide relieves nausea, vomiting and reflux. Voltaren is a pain killer for arthritis, but appears to have been taken off the market.

My husband has a tube of Voltaren on his nightstand for his knee.

 

[Sparks]

While it is something you put in a particular spot, it does get into your system so even the gel form could show up in a test.

As what?

 

[kwanfan1818]

All of that talk about there being the perfect weight and never fluctuating more than a seemingly meaningless number of grams in order to jump is pretty glaring in the context of controlling input and output of substances other than food.

There are several things I find:

Interesting: When the results came out, there was a series of accusations and denials from RUSADA and the Swedish lab all concerning whether RUSADA had marked the sample "Expedited" with the Swedish lab claiming to have processed it correctly. That was nowhere to be found in the case. Instead, the Swedish lab couldn't process the test by standard means and had to find an alternative, although, according to the report, it was not to test TMZ. I couldn't follow the science in the report both times I read the section, so if anyone can explain it, I'd appreciate it.

Frightening: If you don't know how you ingested or absorbed the substance, you're dead in the water. The incentive is to come up with something, because, at least the strawberry dessert sounds specific enough, unlike the entirely general factory contamination, and the locally general sabotage theories she put forth. And while it didn't work, it was, oddly, her best bet.

WADA is a frightening entity in itself.

 

[Orm Irian]

Frightening: If you don't know how you ingested or absorbed the substance, you're dead in the water. The incentive is to come up with something, because, at least the strawberry dessert sounds specific enough, unlike the entirely general factory contamination, and the locally general sabotage theories she put forth.

Yep. Drug testing in athletics works on the principle that you're guilty until proven innocent. You don't just have to put forward a plausible explanation: you have to be able to positively, definitely identify that a given item was the source of the substance registered in your test and show that your the ingestion or absorption of the substance was accidental, i.e. what Jessica Calalang was able to do following an unholy amount of research to identify the source of her adverse test result, and Laurine Lecavelier wasn't.

 

[MacMadame]

Mr. Cantaloop and several of my students were NCAA athletes. They all said they couldn't take any medicine (even OTC cold medicines) without running it by their team doctor and coaches. US athletes need to watch everything they put in their bodies - ask Jessica Calalang (still about that). Any athlete would be foolish if they took random supplements, given how many were found to be contaminated with hormones thanks to the looser FDA regulations regarding supplements vs. pharmaceuticals.

It's not random supplements. Many training centers have doctors who work with athletes to come up with a supplement plan for each of them. Many coaches do this as well. What goes on at Sambo isn't unique. At least the ethical centers/coaches aren't helping their athletes dope.

As what?

Whatever the active ingredient is. (My tube is in another room and I'm too lazy to go fetch it.)

My point is that even if you use it as a gel instead of orally, it still gets into your system -- just less than if you took it orally. NSAIDS are systemic.

 

[Primorskaya]

There seems to be a supposition that the all-controlling Russian sports combine does everything evil and that the poor, benighted athletes have no choice, do what they are told, and suspect nothing. The chances are that the state, coaches, and doctors do not control every last detail of athletes' lives and that the athletes are neither so innocent nor so ignorant as people suppose.

Agree and disagree. At this stage in the proceedings, Valieva is clearly colluding, inventing/backing up crazy stories. She's probably willing to do this as no-one wants to be found guilty, but even if she wasn't, she'd have been persuaded it was in hers and everyone's interests.
That doesn't allow us to be sure that she had any clear idea what she was taking beforehand. Also "the Russian athletes" is not a monolithic body. I believe some of them aren't taking more the the unholy supplement salad Valieva was on, which is bad enough, but legal. "The Eteri group" is another story. I believe that there, yes, every single aspect of the (young, influenceable) athletes' lives is controlled in a manner that it isn't in, say, the Mishin group. And that they have no choice and do what they are told, or else, they're free to go. So they're "guilty" of accepting the super harsh training methods because they think it's their best shot at making it, and once you've done that, it's an easy step to accepting whatever supplement the good doctor is giving you. Brute coercion never has to enter the picture. A climate of "everyone's trying to get an edge", a siege mentality encouraged nationwide, the huge pool of wannabes snapping at your heels, expert use of the carrot and stick method...I think their guilt extends as far a suspecting some "vitamins" aren't entirely above board. But remember that for a very long time everyone bought that their success was owed entirely to the harsh, increasingly decried but efficient Eteri method. Why shouldn't they too? In fact doping alone wouldn't have produced those results.
Long post, but I really think people are over-simplifying a complex psychological, social and political situation. Which doesn't change the remedy: the sentence was correct, heads need to roll among the truly guilty, but this isn't happening unless there's a second Russian revolution.

 

[Mafke]

the athletes are neither so innocent nor so ignorant as people suppose

All the more reason to not let minors compete at this level. The stakes are too high and their judgement is not good enough, especially when surrounded by corrupt structures.

 

[Vash01]

The only people I have seen taking Metoclopramide (in France and Switzerland) had cancer and the medicine was designed to help them not vomiting after chemo. It is a very potent antiemetic that you are not given just because you have a simple stomach bug.


It's still available and widely used in Europe. As it can dig huge ulcers in your stomach, you are almost automatically prescribed acid inhibitors at the same time.

My podiatrist recommended Voltaren about four months ago for pain caused by an irritated tendon. I used it only a few times. I had bought it at Walgreens without a prescription. When I had a fall six weeks ago and my right hand was hurting (fingers) I used it sometimes. Will stop using it now.

 

[just tuned in]

My husband has a tube of Voltaren on his nightstand for his knee.

Google says the oral version was taken off the market.

 

[Rainbow]

Google says the oral version was taken off the market.

Not in Germany. I just took Voltaren pills for Achilles tendonitis. But you are not supposed to take it longer than a week or regularly. Just short term for acute inflammation.

 

[Rainbow]

According to anti doping specialist Hajo Seppelt, who was the one uncovering the Sotchi scandal, the girls are being given an assortment of pills especially during training camps without knowing exactly, what's in them:

Olympia | Doping: Dopingfall Walijewa wird zur Hängepartie – dubioses Umfeld der Eiskunstläuferin

Der Dopingfall um Eiskunstlauf-Wunderkind Walijewa wird vor dem CAS entschieden. Nach Sportschau-Informationen sind noch Hunderte Verdachtsfälle aus dem russischen Staatsdoping ungeklärt – auch im Wintersport.

www.sportschau.de

Having said that, if you don't ask, you don't know. Still teenage girls or anyone for that matter blab as evidenced by that Sabotowa vid. So the assumption would be that they know without kwnowing.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Agree and disagree. At this stage in the proceedings, Valieva is clearly colluding, inventing/backing up crazy stories. She's probably willing to do this as no-one wants to be found guilty, but even if she wasn't, she'd have been persuaded it was in hers and everyone's interests.
That doesn't allow us to be sure that she had any clear idea what she was taking beforehand. Also "the Russian athletes" is not a monolithic body. I believe some of them aren't taking more the the unholy supplement salad Valieva was on, which is bad enough, but legal. "The Eteri group" is another story. I believe that there, yes, every single aspect of the (young, influenceable) athletes' lives is controlled in a manner that it isn't in, say, the Mishin group. And that they have no choice and do what they are told, or else, they're free to go. So they're "guilty" of accepting the super harsh training methods because they think it's their best shot at making it, and once you've done that, it's an easy step to accepting whatever supplement the good doctor is giving you. Brute coercion never has to enter the picture. A climate of "everyone's trying to get an edge", a siege mentality encouraged nationwide, the huge pool of wannabes snapping at your heels, expert use of the carrot and stick method...I think their guilt extends as far a suspecting some "vitamins" aren't entirely above board. But remember that for a very long time everyone bought that their success was owed entirely to the harsh, increasingly decried but efficient Eteri method. Why shouldn't they too? In fact doping alone wouldn't have produced those results.
Long post, but I really think people are over-simplifying a complex psychological, social and political situation. Which doesn't change the remedy: the sentence was correct, heads need to roll among the truly guilty, but this isn't happening unless there's a second Russian revolution.

^This is a great post, thank you for putting this into words so well what I was also thinking.