Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

[Shyjosie]

It is all about V&M and P&C slugging it out for the foreseeable future. I admire and cheer for both P&C and the Shibs, BUT, because I am underdog inclined, I really think that the Shibs could throw a serious wrench into the works. Dark horse potential is a beautiful thing -- Beeeaaauuutiful!!!! Go! Shibs! GO!!!!

Same here. It's actually the first time in ages that I'm pursuing an ongoing rivalry, and I'm in the awkward position of really liking two competing teams at once, wishing them well and all...
My admiration goes to both teams Shibs and P/C, for their hard work, their immeasurable talent, the beauty and the difference they make respectively.
But the Shibs will always have my heart, whatever the outcome.

 

[aftershocks]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN4zAN4jrmB/ Maia and Eric Radford having fun with the Quickstep compulsory

 

[VGThuy]

Around this time last year, I made some music suggestions for the next season. In the off-chance that the Shibs are reading this, maybe we can come up with some "dream" programs for them for both the SD and FD. How do you guys think they should approach the Rhumba pattern and Latin rhythm for the SD? What sort of FD do you want to see?

I don't have any particular music yet, but I would love of them to go in a totally different direction from Michael Jackson for their FD. Something more Olympic and larger-than-life.

 

[aftershocks]

An interesting video demonstrating classic Rhumba guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1bF99HPbg

Rhumba demonstration on the floor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGpvc5QSSXs

Rhumba Ice Dance compulsory 2007 Worlds M-F Dubreuil/ Lauzon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEoSft6TjVE

2007 Worlds CD Rhumba V/M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvxIr7BvNw
2007 Worlds CD Rhumba D/W: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33--pUeJm1Q

The Shibs' Latin medley in 2012:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfv_ACXZ3JA

 

[VGThuy]

Any word on if they're going to make the ice dance teams separate the two Rhumba patterns like they did in 2011-2012 or are they going to do what they're doing this season and make them an extremely short Rhumba pattern and do a partial step to the rhumba rhythm?

I think the real issue for almost every SD in the 2011-2012 season was that the teams had to separate (or maybe they chose to if it was optional) the rhumba pattern step into two separate sections with an element or two in-between and it really prevented almost any team to create a rhumba mood...which is already difficult as it's a 2:40-50 routine where they're also doing a faster latin rhythm so the rhumba seemed nothing more than a forced add-on. Add in the fact that the rhumba pattern does not resemble a ballroom or real life rhumba and is a pretty boring pattern to begin with and well...you get a lot of bored ice dance fans. The only team from that season whose Latin I even re-watch regularly is Virtue/Moir's but I preferred their dance earlier in the season and prefer their FD version.

I think teams in the past who made the rhumba work as a CD did so because they added their own flair to the steps in a way the best teams of the past can do in the CD. Plus since the whole dance was a rhumba, they had more time to set the mood. Hard to set the mood when a team is obviously concentrating on their other elements and looking like they can't wait to move on to the faster rhythm.

 

[DreamSkates]

[QUOTE="... They are also getting more criticism this season which is a sign that they've moved on up in the ice dance hierarchy so people are trying to find reasons to take them down a peg or two.[/QUOTE]
And that will just motivate them to work harder. Go ShibSibs!

 

[chapis]

Around this time last year, I made some music suggestions for the next season. In the off-chance that the Shibs are reading this, maybe we can come up with some "dream" programs for them for both the SD and FD. How do you guys think they should approach the Rhumba pattern and Latin rhythm for the SD? What sort of FD do you want to see?

I don't have any particular music yet, but I would love of them to go in a totally different direction from Michael Jackson for their FD. Something more Olympic and larger-than-life.

It sucks that the 99.9% of the best latin songs are about love or sex, seems we dont have much imagination. Anyway, my suggestion is Danzon no. 2 for the latin rhytm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PgcrLj2DAkM , is classic but is olympic season, every team will be playing their streights.
I am still thinking about FD.

 

[sap5]

Around this time last year, I made some music suggestions for the next season. In the off-chance that the Shibs are reading this, maybe we can come up with some "dream" programs for them for both the SD and FD. How do you guys think they should approach the Rhumba pattern and Latin rhythm for the SD? What sort of FD do you want to see?

I don't have any particular music yet, but I would love of them to go in a totally different direction from Michael Jackson for their FD. Something more Olympic and larger-than-life.

Whatever the FD is, it needs to capture the emotions of the audience in a major way, because you know that's exactly what P/C and V/M will aim to do, and in an Olympic year, that's what audiences want to see.

 

[Spun Silver]

Around this time last year, I made some music suggestions for the next season. In the off-chance that the Shibs are reading this, maybe we can come up with some "dream" programs for them for both the SD and FD. How do you guys think they should approach the Rhumba pattern and Latin rhythm for the SD? What sort of FD do you want to see?

Just clarifying: is the rhumba the pattern dance? All I saw was that tango or paso doble are out, but cha cha, rhumba, samba, mambo, meringue, salsa, bachata (?) and closely related dances are in.

 

[skatfan]

I thought the Shibs skated well in the GPF, but a little cautious. I want more abandon from them in the SD particularly - it begs for more "laying it down" vibe. The program itself is really good. I think the FD is simply not the vehicle for getting them into a top-3 conversation (instead of the top-2, then all the others) - the program seems to go nowhere to me, and then in the final 30 secs I get interested and it's over.

 

[Mrs. P]

Just clarifying: is the rhumba the pattern dance? All I saw was that tango or paso doble are out, but cha cha, rhumba, samba, mambo, meringue, salsa, bachata (?) and closely related dances are in.

Yes it's the rhumba pattern, but you can do it to any of those Latin styles provided it's at the required tempo.

 

[Spun Silver]

Yes it's the rhumba pattern, but you can do it to any of those Latin styles provided it's at the required tempo.

Thanks for explaining that. I obviously don't know how to read!

 

[Bellanca]

It sucks that the 99.9% of the best latin songs are about love or sex, seems we dont have much imagination. Anyway, my suggestion is Danzon no. 2 for the latin rhytm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PgcrLj2DAkM , is classic but is olympic season, every team will be playing their streights.
I am still thinking about FD.

Uncivilized, we are simply uncivilized!

On a serious note, I like the suggestion. It is heavy on the reed in the beginning and throughout, but the violins are quite nice.

 

[VGThuy]

It looks like Maia and Alex are in L.A. again. I bet they're working on their SD.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOBaEIzBHcR/?taken-by=maiashibutani

"And the Jay-Z song was on"

 

[DDNatalia]

Love these pics from Maia's instagram:

With Radianova
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN94z5uhuv1/?taken-by=maiashibutani

With Javi "...my Spanish older brother..."
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN6ttt_BRBj/?taken-by=maiashibutani

An appearance in L.A. at a skating event hosted by Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOEDpIIhlsL/?taken-by=maiashibutani

 

[VGThuy]

I love that they're hanging out with Wong Fu Productions. For those of you who don't know, Wong Fu Productions are an Asian-American filmmaking group known for web productions (series, feature films, music videos, and parodies) that showcase Asian-American talent. They have a large following and I've been watching their stuff on YouTube for like ten years. Maybe Alex and Maia are learning more about film techniques from them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOGt2qshNF9/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOGvlakgWOM/

And Maia has a cameo appearance in online personality Jake Paul's video:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOFYh_IBw-v/

 

[VGThuy]

Shibs' GPF vlog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJG9xG_j_A

I love seeing all the skaters behind-the-scenes at the competition. Honestly, the Shibs vlogs is like the best avenue to see other skaters in their "natural" habitat and show off their personalities and how they interact with one another in competition.

 

[Bellanca]

The Shibs are the real deal, genuine and true, never to be underestimated.

Go get that National title and MORE!

 

[Subway]

I am not worried about the rumba for the Shibs. IMO they are the best brother/sister dance team ever. In the past, I believe teams and coaches have overthought and therefore exaggerated the "problem" with brother/sister teams, and took a strange approach. The Kerrs, IMO, either ignored they were siblings and squicked people out, or they did somewhat gimmicky programs. If one is skating in tandem there are many relationships other than romantic relationships. A sibling relationship is a strong one. A family relationship is a strong one. I liked the idea of

 

[Subway]

Not so sure it's all about P/C and V/M slugging it out. While P/C have been highly scored, V/M have beaten them twice, decisively and handily (as they should have, because they are by far the better ice dance team and better skaters). I have read that P/C made the jump from down low in the standings to WC because Gadbois figured out how to package them. It's an extraordinary package to get judges to notice world championship skating that was somehow invisible to them the year before. So, frankly, I think other considerations went into it apart from the skating. I think P/C are static. They do a set "set" of things effectively, that that is it, effectively enough to allow the sport to have overlooked marked weaknesses in the past couple of years, and I don't think P/C will be a sure #2. I think the Shibs can overtake them. The primary thing the Shibs need to do, IMO, is to skate with as much abandon as they can, as much "attack" as they can, always keeping the integrity of their choreography and the "style" that's appropriate to a given program. Because when they skate all out, it is difficult to deny that their TES is better.

 

[Jammers]

The problem is the Shibs aren't that kind of team that skates with abandon like D/W always did. They are more about being technically perfect but Maia especially has always been muted in her performance's and in Ice Dancing the woman needs to really sell the programs and let it all go but Maia stays within herself to much. Coldplay is as close to really opening up emotionally that the Shibs have ever done but they need to find something that tops that to even have a chance against teams that simply may be better then them.

 

[VGThuy]

Anyway...

I was thinking about music for next season, and I wonder if music from Korean dramas would work well for them, or would that be pandering too much. I was talking to a friend about how K-Dramas have some really great music and they'd get the benefit of using a soundtrack (highs, lows, emotional arcs) without having to actually act out the storylines and they wouldn't be overused or too well-known. I also think it would fit their natural more introverted demeanors and the music could help carry them. Or maybe that would be too on the nose for Pyeongchang.

 

[Spun Silver]

Would that be understandable for non-Koreans in the West? as they will be competing with the music all season. I have no familiarity with the genre. But great strong music sounds good.

ETA: Speaking to Jammers's point about how the Shibs have less abandon than D/W did... it would be nice if they used some fast music next season. Speed is one way of achieving "abandon," esp when romantic drama is not an option.

 

[VGThuy]

I still think the Shibs are afraid that if they'd skate with abandon they'd lose levels. They need to not be afraid and just do it. They have the GOE and PCS of a high-ranking team now.

@Spun Silver, I was thinking more instrumental tracks rather than sung songs.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wasn't thinking so much of the language as the genre. Would there be unfamiliar styles that might not work in the West is my question, I guess. It's just a q, like I said I am unfamiliar with the genre.

But you make me wonder if some sort of anime style would work. Maybe not without the cartoons, but I keep thinking of a gorgeous anime solo that Daisuke did a year or two ago as a promotion for a movie. The music and choreo were so beautiful, but so was the art projected onto the ice so without that it might not have been so magical. I don't know anything about anime either so I am really talking through my hat!

 

[SidelineSkater]

I was wondering if someone would skate to similar music from Yuna's Homage to Korea. The Arirang theme is heavily used in John Barnes Chance's Variations on a Korean Folk Song. Wonderful piece of music with highs, lows, fast, slow, great options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZyn2FDvvy0

 

[chapis]

Anyway...

I was thinking about music for next season, and I wonder if music from Korean dramas would work well for them, or would that be pandering too much. I was talking to a friend about how K-Dramas have some really great music and they'd get the benefit of using a soundtrack (highs, lows, emotional arcs) without having to actually act out the storylines and they wouldn't be overused or too well-known. I also think it would fit their natural more introverted demeanors and the music could help carry them. Or maybe that would be too on the nose for Pyeongchang.

do you have examples? I am not familiar with korean dramas but I know these are very popular worldwide, so I guess the style is not so different from the west style

 

[VGThuy]

They're not very different from Western music really, depending on the storyline and such, but there's an obvious cultural influence that seeps in there...again depending on the piece. I just find the soundtracks to utilize a lot of piano melodies creating clear moods, which soundtracks accompanying movie/tv show scenes tend to be (high, low, contemplative), that I think can help carry any skater and I think it'll be more accessible to audiences since some are complaining Arvo Part's "Spiegel im Spiegel" is too cold and minimalist for them. It might also be a little nod to the Korean audiences. It's sort of like Yuzuru's LP music this year, though it's Japanese and he uses an non-film piece from Joe Hisaishi, whose work on Studio Ghibli films is famous worldwide. Evgenia Medvedeva's short program this season is an instrumental piece titled "River Flows In You" that would be similar and it was composed by Yiruma, a Korean composer. When I first heard that piece years ago, I didn't imagine that pantomiming that Averbukh thought up for her.

 

[VGThuy]

As for Latin, this might be basic of me to think of since the only Latin I really know is bachata (thanks to living in the northeast) and Reggaeton, but I wondered if Marc Anthony's "Vivir Mi Vida" would work out for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ

The lyrics seem pretty universal and not amorous or sexual or anything so it'll work for the Shibs:

I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
[I'm gonna] live my life, la, la, la, la
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna enjoy
live my life, la, la, la, la

Sometimes rain comes
to clean wounds
Sometimes just a drop
can overcome the drought

And why cry, for what?
If it hurts bad, forget it
And why suffer, for what?
If life is like this, you must live it

I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
live my life, la, la, la, la
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna enjoy
live my life, la, la, la, la

I'm gonna live in the moment
to understand the fate
I'm gonna listen in silence
to find the way

And why cry, for what?
If it hurts bad, forget it
And why suffer, for what?
If it hurts bad, forget it

I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
live my life, la, la, la, la
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna enjoy
live my life, la, la, la, la

My people!

I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
Why mourn? Why suffer?
Start dreaming, laughing
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
Feel and dance and enjoy,
you only live once
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
Live, always keep moving forward
Don't look back

My people, you only live once

I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna dance
live my life, la, la, la, la
I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna enjoy
live my life, la, la, la, la

It's a salsa rhythm, but it might be slow enough for them to do the rhumba pattern (and partial step?) to. Thematically, it is similar to "That's Life" though, except this is a lot more optimistic.

For something fast and with a beat, I always liked Don Omar's "Danza Kuduro" (love dancing to this in the clubs) but I'm not sure if it fits the theme AND the lyrics might be a little risque for the Shibs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWRcqF4FNqg

I do think songs with these beats will let them dance out without invoking some of the more sexual moods that many attribute with latin rhythms, especially the rhumba.

 

[Spun Silver]

As for Latin, this might be basic of me to think of since the only Latin I really know is bachata (thanks to living in the northeast) and Reggaeton, but I wondered if Marc Anthony's "Vivir Mi Vida" would work out for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ

The lyrics seem pretty universal and not amorous or sexual or anything so it'll work for the Shibs:



It's a salsa rhythm, but it might be slow enough for them to do the rhumba pattern (and partial step?) to. Thematically, it is similar to "That's Life" though, except this is a lot more optimistic.

For something fast and with a beat, I always liked Don Omar's "Danza Kuduro" (love dancing to this in the clubs) but I'm not sure if it fits the theme AND the lyrics might be a little risque for the Shibs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWRcqF4FNqg

I do think songs with these beats will let them dance out without invoking some of the more sexual moods that many attribute with latin rhythms, especially the rhumba.

I love both of those. The second one puts my Spanish and non-existent Portuguese to the test but although it seems to be about waking up a young woman sexually it doesn't seem to be too explicit and I think they could make it more about being sexy in general, not necessarily together. I mean, they are grown up, it makes sense. I think either one would be super fun to skate to, and audiences would love them.