New Brennan Article re: Zimmerman/Fontana & the Rink in USA Today

[Desperado]

From MR’s Post #81:

“...no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach.”

Scary enough for you?

 

[Vagabond]

From MR’s Post #81:

“...no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach.”

Scary enough for you?

Scary regardless of whether the poster is really a grandmother and coach or actually a young man posing as a grandmother.

 

[Dragonlady]

why can you not understand i am not defending him ..... all sides are at fault for all different reasons and evidently no one in her family wanted to report it and the girl did not want to talk to the police.

First off, I am a retired law clerk who has worked with child protection services so I am very familar with laws around reporting and dealing with child sexual abuse, and trained to work with sexually abused children. So cut the holier than thou crap.

The ones who are at fault here are the people to whom the abuse was reported, and who did nothing: Cipres, the coaches and the rink officials. Most jurisdictions have laws against people failing to report child abuse if they so much as suspect it's happening. This is the part that makes Zimmerman, Fontana and the rink owner legally liable here. They were told and they did NOTHING.

No parent ever wants to go to the police. We don't want our children subjected to the trauma of the police interviews, the court proceedings and all of the trappings. Years, months of questioning, court appearances, and talking about this over and over. We don't want other people find out it happened. We just want our daughters to be safe. Blaming the parents or the child for not doing enough or not doing the right things, is legal, morally and just humanly wrong.

You need to learn about the law, and the psychology of child sexual abuse and how people like you are far too willing to see "both sides", always to give the abuser an out, an excuse, a rationalization that he really didn't harm the child. The first thing you said was "He didn't rape her". It was no big deal. It wasn't raped. She wasn't harmed. Isn't that what you said. Then it progresses to well she's mature for a 13 year old, and she was flirting with him. The "Lolita" defence, and you hinted at that. And then ultimatley you'll be posting that she lead him on and it's really not his fault at all, it was all her.

I remember the Bob Young mess when he was accused by a skater of sexual abuse. Many of parents at the rinks said this girl was a slut who was more a willing participant They knew and saw what was going. They testified in his defense. A couple of years later, two of the parents who testified on his behalf and vilified this poor teenager, had Bob Young arrested for sexually abusing their underage daughters.

This is how predators survive for so long. People are always ready to blame the little girl victims and let their abusers off the hook
.

 

[Carolla5501]

I missed that the defender was a coach. OMG now I’m truly disturbed.

 

[misskarne]

why can you not understand i am not defending him ..... all sides are at fault for all different reasons and evidently no one in her family wanted to report it and the girl did not want to talk to the police.

How fcuking sick and twisted do you have to be to blame a THIRTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL for being a victim of abuse?!

oh dear i am revolting.

Don't worry, that wasn't the harshest insult I could think of.

From MR’s Post #81:

“...no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach.”

Scary enough for you?

Absolutely terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Oh my god, what terrible things are being covered up in that poster's rink? How many of that poster's skaters have been abused and told that it doesn't matter because it wasn't rape?! Hell, @morgan rye sounds like someone who even quibbles over what is rape and what isn't rape (probably one of those types that think the girl has to be tied up screaming for it to be rape, or that if she didn't fight as hard as she could it's not rape).

 

[Orm Irian]

From MR’s Post #81:

“...no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach.”

Scary enough for you?

I sincerely hope for their sakes that the poster's grandchildren are never in a situation where they have to disclose that they have been abused to her. Or to anyone, of course, but most of all to somebody who has given every indication that they would wilfully fail every moral, legal and human obligation of a mandatory reporter.

 

[Carolla5501]

You know normally I put people who are just completely disgusting on ignore, but Morgan Riley is beyond disgusting!

it’s the most terrifying thing I think I’ve read in a while . I wish we could figure out who this person is real life and call somebody in authority to report them because obviously when the child at their rink reports abuse but they’re going to be told “ is it your fault go away”. Unbelievably terrifying

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Seriously, what do they think? That "peddling pornography to a child" sounds better than "sexual abuse"? Therefore, it can be argued to be ok? Is that what they want us to adopt as a society? Or is it only to apply when it makes it convenient for skaters I like?

I agree, I'm not understanding some of these justifications. If Cipres showed the child his erect penis at the rink, would anyone not consider that sexual abuse?!?! What am I missing here? What's the difference, really? And I'm disgusted that F/Z were horrible to this victim who just wanted to skate. Hopefully MR might finally understand what happened in those terms.

 

[Alilou]

and you are a lawyer admitted to the bar in florida?

And your response has no relevance to the issues @Dragonlady raised. She doesn’t need to be a lawyer to make the points she made so why not answer them?

 

[misskarne]

And your response has no relevance to the issues @Dragonlady raised. She doesn’t need to be a lawyer to make the points she made so why not answer them?

Oh, I think we know why.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

An op-ed about the BSA bankruptcy that recommends other organizations act sooner rather than later on these issues.

Boy Scouts bankruptcy a warning to others who have ignored sexual abuse

Release of the 'Perversion Files' in 2012 revealed scale of Boy Scouts problem which still entangles the organization.

www.usatoday.com

 

[insideedgeua]

I’ve seen a couple of photos online from the pair tryout camp in Nashville.

Looks like John Zimmerman was there.

 

[Carolla5501]

I’ve seen a couple of photos online from the pair tryout camp in Nashville.

Looks like John Zimmerman was there.

I guess USFS feels like they can't do anything until something "offical' happens. Pretty much tells you what their priority is..... (medals at all costs anyone?)

 

[wickedwitch]

I guess USFS feels like they can't do anything until something "offical' happens. Pretty much tells you what their priority is..... (medals at all costs anyone?)

If he’s there to support his athletes, then I don’t think there’s much to be done at this time unfortunately.

If the USFSA invited him because of his pairs expertise, then that’s beyond unacceptable.

 

[Carolla5501]

If he’s there to support his athletes, then I don’t think there’s much to be done at this time unfortunately.

If the USFSA invited him because of his pairs expertise, then that’s beyond unacceptable.

You know I wonder if USFS needs to start doing their own reviews/investigations. Waiting on safe sport is only exposing them to risk. If something else was to happen and they hadn't done anything because "we abdicated to safesport" I would think a good attorney could make a case to get some big $$$.

 

[misskarne]

USFS had an opportunity to be proactive and show some spine while they wait for Safesport.

But to nobody's surprise, they didn't.

 

[Colonel Green]

You know I wonder if USFS needs to start doing their own reviews/investigations. Waiting on safe sport is only exposing them to risk. If something else was to happen and they hadn't done anything because "we abdicated to safesport" I would think a good attorney could make a case to get some big $$$.

Since SafeSport is an official government program tasked with handling these matters, I would say they’re in the clear there.

 

[Carolla5501]

Since SafeSport is an official government program tasked with handling these matters, I would say they’re in the clear there.

I actually don’t think they do. You cannot abdicate your responsibility because someone else has a role in it. But then I don’t know what controls they already have in place that may mitigate some of the rest.


I work in healthcare and if we have an incident the government does investigate and may take action, but that does not relieve us of the liability from the family of a injured patient.

 

[wickedwitch]

IIRC, the USFSA is not allowed to do their own investigation if Safe Sport is doing an investigation.

 

[okokok777]

IIRC, the USFSA is not allowed to do their own investigation if Safe Sport is doing an investigation.

You're correct. An NGB is not allowed to do their own investigation or implement their own sanctions if SafeSport has taken on the case.

 

[MacMadame]

Also, we have due process in this country and USFS would most likely get sued if they took away Zimmerman and Fontana's credentials before an investigation is done.

Remember: SafeSport will give an interim suspension if they believe it's necessary to protect athletes. They have not done that in this case.

 

[Colonel Green]

Yes, that's what I understood. SafeSport was specifically created to address these matters; powers relating to credentials are vested in them, assuming it's been reported to them, as is the case here. That's kind of point of having an independent, third-party agency.

 

[Orm Irian]

Remember: SafeSport will give an interim suspension if they believe it's necessary to protect athletes. They have not done that in this case.

Or at least not yet. One thing I have heard about the US Centre for SafeSport is that it's massively overworked, and so investigations move slowly.

 

[Japanfan]

Or at least not yet. One thing I have heard about the US Centre for SafeSport is that it's massively overworked, and so investigations move slowly.

That's not acceptable because it means that victims may continue to be abused.

Though I can't think of an interim measure that would not punish the accused, who is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Although I think that is not a guiding legal principle in France, which might mean some interim measure could imposed on Cipres. Though of course it won't happen.

 

[cholla]

Though I can't think of an interim measure that would not punish the accused, who is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Although I think that is not a guiding legal principle in France.

Yes, it is. It is exactly the same, you are innocent until proven guilty.

 

[PRlady]

Also, Zimmerman and Fontana are accused of protecting the perp, not being one. There’s no apparent danger in their continuing to train skaters since presumably they would not now enable another abuser.

 

[angi]

Also, Zimmerman and Fontana are accused of protecting the perp, not being one. There’s no apparent danger in their continuing to train skaters since presumably they would not now enable another abuser.

Normally I would agree but considering the very public comments the owner of their rink made about the 13 years old girl in question and Fontana/Zimmerman alleged behavior this presumption might be giving them too much credit.

 

[bethy135]

Again, spread the word far and wide. Information is power. The allegations themselves are facts. They exist. If I were a parent I would want to know about the allegations and then decide for myself if the risk to my child were worth it. Or whether I at least needed to have my radar on high and keep supervision high.

One way to help is to make sure that any families who have contact with Cipres are aware of the allegations. Same goes for any families of minors who train at the same rink in Florida. Hopefully they all know about it by now - but I've seen a lot of newbies parents who know nothing at all about the sport or rink culture.

Safesport, FFSG and USFS do not have the power to stop the sharing of information. Nor do we need to wait on them to do it for us.

 

[UGG]

Also, Zimmerman and Fontana are accused of protecting the perp, not being one. There’s no apparent danger in their continuing to train skaters since presumably they would not now enable another abuser.

who says they wouldn’t enable another abuser? Why would this be presumed when they already did it once?

 

[PRlady]

who says they wouldn’t enable another abuser? Why would this be presumed when they already did it once?

I’m assuming they are not so stupid as to again blatantly assist a guilty skater. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit.