Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Hedwig]

That seems like foolish behaviour from a coach at that young age for sure... At that age, the sport should be about building skills and passion for the sport. However with that said, there are many of us who are also tired of "participation awards" for everyone...trophies for all.. "everyone passes", no score keeping because you don't want kids to have their feelings hurt if they lose etc. There IS something to be learned by winning and losing. Kids need to learn at an early age that effort matters and sometimes even with strong effort, there are others who are better than you. All kids have a talent and excel at something, but just because we want to be good at everything, doesn't mean that we will be...

What we are seeing now in schools is crazy. Kids can't handle failure. They can't handle things not going their way, because they have always been told that they are great at everything...they can "be whatever they want to be" and they can "do whatever they want to do". This simply is not true.

Society needs to shift back to a more realistic approach and build resilience in our kids.

I disagree about almost every word in here.

First and foremost because exercise is very important for health reasons and for social reasons. So the most important factor in promoting exercise should be to make it fun for everyone and keep people in it. At best lifelong.

If you make it about winning and losing mostly than there will be winners and losers. And some people will be motivated by it and strive to get better.
And others will stop because they are consistently not good enough even if theoretically they enjoyed the exercise.

And the „children need to learn failure“- there are enough failures and hardships in real life without having to artificially create even more.

Knowing a lot of well adjusted and very friendly ten year olds with varies interests and a lot of grit, I cannot see the children you are talking about. But I remember myself hating exercise as a kid because I was not very fast, could not throw very wide etc. I am still not „good“ but I overcame my hatred of all kinds of sports (mostly because I had to because of health) and was surprised how much one can enjoy it. Regardless of wether one is talented or not.

I will never jump a double axel and will never win a skating competition but I enjoy every lesson on the ice. There is so much more to exercise than winning and it is sad that so many parents and coaches do not see the broader picture.

 

[Hedwig]

Just food for thought here....

Is there a difference between a one off drunken event and consistent targeting and sexual abuse? (I guess I'm just asking for people's thoughts on this). For example, I suspect MANY men and women have done things they regret after a drunken evening of partying in their early 20s. Is that sort of behaviour "equivalent" to someone who is targeting people and sexually assualting numerous people over a period of time?

Yes - some will think I'm trying to excuse this "one off behaviour" which I'm not.... but I do feel there is a difference.

IF this situation happened (and I have no reason to believe it didn't), does the perpetrator deserve to have their entire career destroyed? If you say yes to this, then would you say the same to any other professional/adult who has made a mistake in their past? (ie: If a victim comes forward 10-15 years after an alleged rape, should the accused automatically be fired and lose their job?). If that is the case, I think you could see hundreds of thousands of people around the world lose their jobs because of one accusation.

I'm just not understanding the logic with some of the posts above who claim that Nik's career should be ended right this very second.

Grey area and no black and white is not rape.

Nor is it a „mistake“

It is a freaking criminal offense that will have shaped the life of that woman.

 

[fsfann]

I disagree about almost every word in here.

First and foremost because exercise is very important for health reasons and for social reasons. So the most important factor in promoting exercise should be to make it fun for everyone and keep people in it. At best lifelong.

If you make it about winning and losing mostly than there will be winners and losers. And some people will be motivated by it and strive to get better.
And others will stop because they are consistently not good enough even if theoretically they enjoyed the exercise.

And the „children need to learn failure“- there are enough failures and hardships in real life without having to artificially create even more.

Knowing a lot of well adjusted and very friendly ten year olds with varies interests and a lot of grit, I cannot see the children you are talking about. But I remember myself hating exercise as a kid because I was not very fast, could not throw very wide etc. I am still not „good“ but I overcame my hatred of all kinds of sports (mostly because I had to because of health) and was surprised how much one can enjoy it. Regardless of wether one is talented or not.

I will never jump a double axel and will never win a skating competition but I enjoy every lesson on the ice. There is so much more to exercise than winning and it is sad that so many parents and coaches do not see the broader picture.

Exercise is one thing, and i totally agree with you that there is much more to exercise than winning. Giving kids this false sense of "everyone's a winner" is just setting them up for failure in life. This - along with the reliance on technology - has created a generation of young people who cannot function and have severe mental health issues.

 

[Vagabond]

Just food for thought here....

Is there a difference between a one off drunken event and consistent targeting and sexual abuse? ....

IF this situation happened (and I have no reason to believe it didn't), does the perpetrator deserve to have their entire career destroyed? If you say yes to this, then would you say the same to any other professional/adult who has made a mistake in their past? (ie: If a victim comes forward 10-15 years after an alleged rape, should the accused automatically be fired and lose their job?). If that is the case, I think you could see hundreds of thousands of people around the world lose their jobs because of one accusation.

From the victim's point of view, a single instance of rape or sexual assault can, and likely will, have lifetime repercussions. It's irrelevant whether the perpetrator did the same thing to anyone else.

I can't speak to Canada, but in the United States, an employer can generally fire an employee for any reason not prohibited by law or contract. Discovering that an employee raped someone fifteen years ago strikes me as good a reason as any to fire someone.

And as for those who do lose their jobs, what about the victims whose lives and career paths were damaged or destroyed by the perpetrators?

 

[fsfann]

Rapists should be in jail. You are arguing for virtually no punishment at all for committing a crime. Sorenson has stated that he wants to coach kids and continue on in the sport. This sport has a problem it's not dealing with. It can't afford to keep looking the other way.

He has already escaped jail because of the statue of limitations. He can find another job and keep living his happy little get out of jail free life.

Ok....so anyone accused of rape should be in jail. No proof required, no opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Ok....so anyone accused of rape should be in jail. No proof required, no opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

Infographic of the Day

[Content Note: Rape culture.] Care of Sarah at The Enliven Project . [H/T to Shaker gidgetcommando.]

www.shakesville.com

 

[pat c]

Hockey in Canada is a total shitshow. The culture is toxic. A little while ago I was in line at the bank beside a lady that was talking about her teenage son’s hockey coach. She was describing behaviour that was pretty clearly abusive and she was happy about it. Said he gets results, the boys don’t need to be coddled, and if he’s a bit rough the ends justify the means. I was shocked and not at the same time. I did mumble something about how that’s why I don’t want my son in hockey

The coach makes the difference. See what you can find out about the coaching styles. Fun, sportsmanship and skills are what you are looking for as you know. But I know a lot of kids who quit at the age of 10 because of the win at all costs mentality.

Sure.. Murder is murder. I agree that's different (and it is).

But even with that, there are grey areas... There was a horrible bus accident in Saskatchewan a few years ago and a bus load of hockey players were killed when a transport truck accidentally drove through a stop sign on a highway. This man is being deported from the country for a tragic accident...

I can't even..........this is so wrong on so many levels. I feel for the families who lost someone in this accident, but this form of hockey fandom has to stop. I'm not heartless, there was another bus accident where young men from NFLD were working in the prairies, and a road crew truck crashed into them, carrying hot asphalt. There were no survivors. Anyone heard about them? Any big fundraisers? No, there wasn't.

My point is that not everything is black and white.

I would say however, that I think murder is on a different level than assault (any form of assault).

It is, and you're right there are many shades of gray. Is this one of them? I don't know, but it saddens me that entitlement is so prevalent, that people will overlook a lot of things for talent or whatever you want to call it.

 

[fsfann]

Infographic of the Day

[Content Note: Rape culture.] Care of Sarah at The Enliven Project . [H/T to Shaker gidgetcommando.]

www.shakesville.com

Yep... scary stuff for sure.

 

[fsfann]

The coach makes the difference. See what you can find out about the coaching styles. Fun, sportsmanship and skills are what you are looking for as you know. But I know a lot of kids who quit at the age of 10 because of the win at all costs mentality.

I can't even..........this is so wrong on so many levels. I feel for the families who lost someone in this accident, but this form of hockey fandom has to stop. I'm not heartless, there was another bus accident where young men from NFLD were working in the prairies, and a road crew truck crashed into them, carrying hot asphalt. There were no survivors. Anyone heard about them? Any big fundraisers? No, there wasn't.

It is, and you're right there are many shades of gray. Is this one of them? I don't know, but it saddens me that entitlement is so prevalent, that people will overlook a lot of things for talent or whatever you want to call it.

Interesting. I follow the news here in Canada and have never heard fo the other bus accident. Agree that the 'hockey culture' is a major issue. Thankfully my kids don't do hockey. I did growing up, and loved it...but things have certainly changed and not for the better...

 

[nlloyd]

Ok....so anyone accused of rape should be in jail. No proof required, no opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

But didn't you start this discussion by asking if a distinction should be made between someone who raped once and a serial rapist? That is what people were responding to, I believe.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Wiki rape culture article

 

[Wyliefan]

Ok....so anyone accused of rape should be in jail. No proof required, no opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

@LeafOnTheWind said, "RAPISTS should be in jail," not "people accused of rape." Don't put words in other people's mouths.

 

[BlueRidge]

What usually happens to people who are under an accusation as the process is followed through? On a sports team, say, will a person under a serious accusation, one that is being pursued through official channels, be simply allowed to continue as if nothing is happening? Or someone on a TV show, or other sort of employee situation? I realize this situation is not like this, but isn't there usually a suspension or leave of absence under these kinds of circumstances if someone is an employee or in some way under contract?

 

[Hedwig]

Exercise is one thing, and i totally agree with you that there is much more to exercise than winning. Giving kids this false sense of "everyone's a winner" is just setting them up for failure in life. This - along with the reliance on technology - has created a generation of young people who cannot function and have severe mental health issues.

It is interesting that you take my criticism of the coach as „everybody is a winner“ is the opposite. You probably do not have much experience in making exercise or games fun? I like playing games where we as a family win or lose against the board for instance. I love in skating working on the bw outside three turn for hours just by myself and never ask myself if I am winning or losing.

But making everything about winning and losing in sports and especially at a freaking under 8 fun tournament is just disgusting. I want a coach here for my kid that encourages the children to do their best and to pat them on the back if they did- regardless of wether they made the goal or not. I want a team that does not verbally abuses a player that misses a shot but that gives the player an encouraging „that is too bad- next time!“ and then enjoys it with him if he does or does not value this person any less if he/she never makes a goal. There is so much to learn in team sports and wether or not there are participating trophies or not is really not important (for what it is worth- the only time my son got a participation trophy was when he played at German Championships in chess and I think just to make it to a National Championship really makes one more than deserving of a trophy wether you win or not.

And if he had gotten one at an unimportant field hockey tournament ? He didn’t but I doubt that it would have had a negative impact on him. Yelling at him when he clearly tried but couldn’t do sth and telling him that having fun was not important on the other hand, would have had a negative impact.


Out on a limb here- but you have no children and only „know“ this from newspapers, right? The whole „this young generation“ thing- to be honest- I find teenagers much more polite, friendly and self aware than we were at that age and certainly more than older people. And certainly not incapable of life.

 

[Hedwig]

Ok....so anyone accused of rape should be in jail. No proof required, no opportunity for anyone to defend themselves.

Yes. Because that is exactly what people here are saying

 

[fsfann]

It is interesting that you take my criticism of the coach as „everybody is a winner“ is the opposite. You probably do not have much experience in making exercise or games fun? I like playing games where we as a family win or lose against the board for instance. I love in skating working on the bw outside three turn for hours just by myself and never ask myself if I am winning or losing.

But making everything about winning and losing in sports and especially at a freaking under 8 fun tournament is just disgusting. I want a coach here for my kid that encourages the children to do their best and to pat them on the back if they did- regardless of wether they made the goal or not. I want a team that does not verbally abuses a player that misses a shot but that gives the player an encouraging „that is too bad- next time!“ and then enjoys it with him if he does or does not value this person any less if he/she never makes a goal. There is so much to learn in team sports and wether or not there are participating trophies or not is really not important (for what it is worth- the only time my son got a participation trophy was when he played at German Championships in chess and I think just to make it to a National Championship really makes one more than deserving of a trophy wether you win or not.

And if he had gotten one at an unimportant field hockey tournament ? He didn’t but I doubt that it would have had a negative impact on him. Yelling at him when he clearly tried but couldn’t do sth and telling him that having fun was not important on the other hand, would have had a negative impact.

Please review the very first two sentences that I wrote.

That seems like foolish behaviour from a coach at that young age for sure... At that age, the sport should be about building skills and passion for the sport.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

What usually happens to people who are under an accusation as the process is followed through? On a sports team, say, will a person under a serious accusation, one that is being pursued through official channels, be simply allowed to continue as if nothing is happening? Or someone on a TV show, or other sort of employee situation? I realize this situation is not like this, but isn't there usually a suspension or leave of absence under these kinds of circumstances if someone is an employee or in some way under contract?

I've been skimming the Canadian OSIC site - it sounds like things may depend on whether or not what they call "Provisional Measure(s)" are applicable. Not sport related, but I seem to recall that when the Jian Ghomeshi scandal first broke, the CBC first temporarily suspended him. When they got more information, he was fired.

 

[Hedwig]

Exercise is one thing, and i totally agree with you that there is much more to exercise than winning. Giving kids this false sense of "everyone's a winner" is just setting them up for failure in life. This - along with the reliance on technology - has created a generation of young people who cannot function and have severe mental health issues.

Out on a limb here. You have no children and know none very closely

Please review the very first two sentences that I wrote.

That seems like foolish behaviour from a coach at that young age for sure... At that age, the sport should be about building skills and passion for the sport.

That is true. And I agree with that. But not your whole bullshit about the woes of „participation trophies“ and how they lead directly to mental health issues.

 

[BlueRidge]

I've been skimming the Canadian OSIC site - it sounds like things may depend on whether or not what they call "Provisional Measure(s)" are applicable. Not sport related, but I seem to recall that when the Jian Ghomeshi scandal first broke, the CBC first temporarily suspended him. When they got more information, he was fired.

Yes I'm not thinking of other situations just like Sorenson's but different ones with a similar accusation or even lesser one of sexual harassment. It seems there is often a removal from a situation, job, etc., because of an accusation, not just when there is a final resolution.

 

[fsfann]

Out on a limb here. You have no children and know none very closely

That is true. And I agree with that. But not your whole bullshit about the woes of „participation trophies“ and how they lead directly to mental health issues.

Actually, I have two kids. I'm around kids all the time. Drag my kids to sporting and arts events. Involved in coaching as well. My kids know that they are good at some things, and not good at others. We have taught them the value of hard work. If their teacher gives them a bad mark on something, they know that they deserve it and need to worker harder next time. I'm not the person who runs to the teacher and blames them for my child's short comings. We set realistic goals with our kids and have expectations that they become good human beings. I come from a family of educators. We respect teachers, but are worried about the failings of teh system that is badly mismanaged with more and more kids coming to school unprepared. Their parents are distracted and not parenting like previous generations. My partner is an educator, and many of my friends are as well.

The education system is failing, because kids are promoted who are not meeting outcomes and always told how great they are. It's a real problem. They can't handle failure. They can't handle anything but a perfect 100% on all assignments. I had a student once who cried because she thought she should get 100% because she completed the assignment. This is a generational and systematic issue and we are destroying kids by letting them think that they are all winners in everything they do, and that they "can do anything they want"... we are lying to them, and they cannot cope when the real world slams them in the face.

 

[Judy]

At the same time it's like all things - there's a mix. If you do decide you want to start little mic in hockey maybe look for a non competitive league, or team that he can start with to get into the sport in a way that focuses on fun, and learning skills rather than competitive sport.

Both my nephews did non-competitive and his dad made it into asst coach position which he loved. He is def awesome with kids .. I remember the one year he had to be coach and he was like omg the parents lol. It ended up better than expected though. Competitive can be very different in any sport.My sister and him couldn’t commit to the competitive due to jobs/time etc. not all coaches are horrible though.

Having said that my 8 year old twin neighbour daughter made the boys hockey team and not enough girls so she’s the only one. Her mom posted a while ago she made player of the week . Kinda not shocked lol.

 

[Trillian]

What usually happens to people who are under an accusation as the process is followed through? On a sports team, say, will a person under a serious accusation, one that is being pursued through official channels, be simply allowed to continue as if nothing is happening? Or someone on a TV show, or other sort of employee situation? I realize this situation is not like this, but isn't there usually a suspension or leave of absence under these kinds of circumstances if someone is an employee or in some way under contract?

Here’s an example of an athlete who was allowed to compete at the 2021 Olympics and 2022 World Championships in fencing. The sexual assault allegations against him were serious enough that I remember reading about the measures being taken to ensure the safety of his fellow Olympians in 2021.

An Elite Fencer Under Investigation For Sexual Assault For More Than A Year Is Still Allowed To Compete

Six women have accused Alen Hadzic of sexual assault. More than a year later, there's no resolution in the case, and he is still allowed to compete.

www.buzzfeednews.com

He was permanently banned by SafeSport in 2023.

 

[once_upon]

Actually, I have two kids. I'm around kids all the time. Drag my kids to sporting and arts events. Involved in coaching as well. My kids know that they are good at some things, and not good at others. We have taught them the value of hard work. If their teacher gives them a bad mark on something, they know that they deserve it and need to worker harder next time. I'm not the person who runs to the teacher and blames them for my child's short comings. We set realistic goals with our kids and have expectations that they become good human beings. I come from a family of educators. We respect teachers, but are worried about the failings of teh system that is badly mismanaged with more and more kids coming to school unprepared. Their parents are distracted and not parenting like previous generations. My partner is an educator, and many of my friends are as well.

The education system is failing, because kids are promoted who are not meeting outcomes and always told how great they are. It's a real problem. They can't handle failure. They can't handle anything but a perfect 100% on all assignments. I had a student once who cried because she thought she should get 100% because she completed the assignment. This is a generational and systematic issue and we are destroying kids by letting them think that they are all winners in everything they do, and that they "can do anything they want"... we are lying to them, and they cannot cope when the real world slams them in the face.

And yet, you are saying that one little "mistake" should be overlooked because of a possible night of drinking, should not be held against someone as it might destroy their lives.

It appears responsibility and being held to behavior standards doesn't hold in this case for yoy.

Just because he might be a winner, he is allowed to do anything he wants. He and others can't cope when the real world slaps them in the face.

 

[Japanfan]

Just food for thought here....

Is there a difference between a one off drunken event and consistent targeting and sexual abuse? (I guess I'm just asking for people's thoughts on this). For example, I suspect MANY men and women have done things they regret after a drunken evening of partying in their early 20s. Is that sort of behaviour "equivalent" to someone who is targeting people and sexually assualting numerous people over a period of time?

Yes - some will think I'm trying to excuse this "one off behaviour" which I'm not.... but I do feel there is a difference.

The difference is more victims. A one-off drunken event that involves rape is still rape.

In saying 'MANY men and women' have done things they regret, you excuse the behavior of a rapist, and that is really not okay.

And yes, do seem to being trying to excuse the one-off behavior.

IF this situation happened (and I have no reason to believe it didn't), does the perpetrator deserve to have their entire career destroyed? If you say yes to this, then would you say the same to any other professional/adult who has made a mistake in their past? (ie: If a victim comes forward 10-15 years after an alleged rape, should the accused automatically be fired and lose their job?). If that is the case, I think you could see hundreds of thousands of people around the world lose their jobs because of one accusation.

I'm just not understanding the logic with some of the posts above who claim that Nik's career should be ended right this very second.

The rapist deserves to be punished accordingly. If that means their career is destroyed, that's the consequence of committing the crime.

Also, do you know that rape is a vastly unreported crime? Many women just don't want to deal with the trauma of the legal/court system, often being treated like they themselves are on trial for a crime. More women's lives are destroyed by rape in comparison to the men who rape/raped them, who often continue on with the behavior over and over again. And of course, it's often a he-said she-said competition.

When a woman claims rape, I tend to believe her.

And rape is not just 'a mistake'. It is a violation of a person's bodily autonomy. Ultimately it is a violation of the soul.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

IF this situation happened (and I have no reason to believe it didn't), does the perpetrator deserve to have their entire career destroyed? If you say yes to this, then would you say the same to any other professional/adult who has made a mistake in their past?

Kids can't handle failure. They can't handle things not going their way, because they have always been told that they are great at everything...they can "be whatever they want to be" and they can "do whatever they want to do". This simply is not true.

So an adult shouldn't be punished harshly for rape if it they only did it once and regret it afterwards. But kids need to be toughened up so they learn how to face consequences in the real world when they grow up.

What?

 

[Hedwig]

Actually, I have two kids. I'm around kids all the time. Drag my kids to sporting and arts events. Involved in coaching as well. My kids know that they are good at some things, and not good at others. We have taught them the value of hard work. If their teacher gives them a bad mark on something, they know that they deserve it and need to worker harder next time. I'm not the person who runs to the teacher and blames them for my child's short comings. We set realistic goals with our kids and have expectations that they become good human beings. I come from a family of educators. We respect teachers, but are worried about the failings of teh system that is badly mismanaged with more and more kids coming to school unprepared. Their parents are distracted and not parenting like previous generations. My partner is an educator, and many of my friends are as well.

The education system is failing, because kids are promoted who are not meeting outcomes and always told how great they are. It's a real problem. They can't handle failure. They can't handle anything but a perfect 100% on all assignments. I had a student once who cried because she thought she should get 100% because she completed the assignment. This is a generational and systematic issue and we are destroying kids by letting them think that they are all winners in everything they do, and that they "can do anything they want"... we are lying to them, and they cannot cope when the real world slams them in the face.

You know, there are a lot of points here I agree with. I think hard work is important and I would only go to a teacher if there are serious issues and not because my son has a bad grade (but then I do not find grades as important as other people, seeing how arbitrary they often are- most important IMO is that they learn to learn an that they have a good grasp of the material)
I just don’t agree that participation trophies are the problem nor having fun in sports and I definitely do not see the children you are describing. On the contrary, I am often amazed by how much more my son does and learns in school than I did at that age and how well children in general cope with life. I was definitely not as independent and self assured as a ten year old. But they are all polite and eager and ready to learn- they go and ask teachers if they have questions and are not afraid to be laughed at
They make extra non credit work and look up things that interest them and all that. I see none of the whiny children you describe. So maybe this is more cultural than anything else.

But we disgress- this is not part of this very specific topic so we should stop.

 

[pat c]

Just food for thought here....

Is there a difference between a one off drunken event and consistent targeting and sexual abuse? (I guess I'm just asking for people's thoughts on this). For example, I suspect MANY men and women have done things they regret after a drunken evening of partying in their early 20s. Is that sort of behaviour "equivalent" to someone who is targeting people and sexually assualting numerous people over a period of time?

Yes - some will think I'm trying to excuse this "one off behaviour" which I'm not.... but I do feel there is a difference.

IF this situation happened (and I have no reason to believe it didn't), does the perpetrator deserve to have their entire career destroyed? If you say yes to this, then would you say the same to any other professional/adult who has made a mistake in their past? (ie: If a victim comes forward 10-15 years after an alleged rape, should the accused automatically be fired and lose their job?). If that is the case, I think you could see hundreds of thousands of people around the world lose their jobs because of one accusation.

I'm just not understanding the logic with some of the posts above who claim that Nik's career should be ended right this very second.

What we're not discussing is that rape is about power, the sex is the result. The difference is we're concentrating on the sex aspect. Someone who thinks it is ok to bend someone else to their will by force, alcohol, money whatever ....is going to use power in whatever way they think will benefit them. So, one of the questions to ask and get answered in this situation is - is might right? The person might not ever rape again, but they will use whatever resources to get their way. So is that ok? Do we want that person to interact with vulnerable children and pass that philosophy on? Food for thought.

 

[MacMadame]

My point is that not everything is black and white.

I would say however, that I think murder is on a different level than assault (any form of assault).

It's crossed over the line. Sure, murder might get 2x the amount of jail time as beating someone up, but they BOTH get jail time. Once you've crossed the line, the fact that something else that's crossed the line is even worse is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Not to mention, when it comes to things like rape (and DUIs which were brought up), the one you get caught for is pretty much never the only one.

Exercise is one thing, and i totally agree with you that there is much more to exercise than winning. Giving kids this false sense of "everyone's a winner" is just setting them up for failure in life. This - along with the reliance on technology - has created a generation of young people who cannot function and have severe mental health issues.

It's about being age-appropriate. Kids learn as they grow up that they can't be good at everything and that a participation trophy is about participating, not being "the best." None of my kids thought getting a trophy meant they had won. They understood exactly what it meant. As do I when I do a race of some sort. I know the difference between being a finisher and making the podium.

Yes I'm not thinking of other situations just like Sorenson's but different ones with a similar accusation or even lesser one of sexual harassment. It seems there is often a removal from a situation, job, etc., because of an accusation, not just when there is a final resolution.

The difference is that they are employees who will get paid while on leave or who can be fired. Sørenson is not an employee so how to deal with this situation is more complex. I mean who is going to put him on leave? How can he be fired? The closest to those situations is to bar him from coaching and not appoint the team to international events.

There may be other things that should be done until the investigation is over but I bet a lot of them would end up with an appeal to CAS and the thing being overturned.

 

[Judy]

And yet, you are saying that one little "mistake" should be overlooked because of a possible night of drinking, should not be held against someone as it might destroy their lives.

It appears responsibility and being held to behavior standards doesn't hold in this case for yoy.

Just because he might be a winner, he is allowed to do anything he wants. He and others can't cope when the real world slaps them in the face.

fsfan has a very healthy approach. that is def not what fsfan was saying. It’s far healthier then some helicopter moms/parents I’ve encountered working in a school.

I’ll always say that a kid/person is more important than a sport though.

 

[ignosk8er]

What we're not discussing is that rape is about power, the sex is the result. The difference is we're concentrating on the sex aspect. Someone who thinks it is ok to bend someone else to their will by force, alcohol, money whatever ....is going to use power in whatever way they think will benefit them. So, one of the questions to ask and get answered in this situation is - is might right? The person might not ever rape again, but they will use whatever resources to get their way. So is that ok? Do we want that person to interact with vulnerable children and pass that philosophy on? Food for thought.

This SA survivor thanks you and repeats for those in the back: It’s about using power to force another person to bend them to their will.