Interview with Nina Mozer

[Vash01]

T/M need to leave Mozer and get a coach who is interested in making them the focus and right now in Mozer's group T/M are only Russian team number #3. Despite the fact that V/T don't even seem serious about competing anymore they will always be the main focus of this group and the same thing is true of S/K. T/M are the future of Russian Pairs but the Russian fed seems more interested in older teams who don't even seem to want to compete.

There is only one older team (V&T) that may not be motivated to compete (actually only half of that team). I don't know of any other older team that doesn't want to compete. I am not even sure that V&T are not serious about competing. It's just that their first year back after winning the OGM, they wanted to take it slow this season, but circumstances forced them to compete at worlds and they were mentally not ready for that. Next season will tell us where they stand. I wouldn't draw hasty conclusions based on one performance (at worlds)

S&K are not 'old'. They are the reigning Olympic silver medallists and potentially OGM contenders in 2018. I hope the RSF will not put all their eggs in one basket (S&K). They need to go for a podium sweep in order to win one medal. The pairs field in the world is very competitive now.

I agree that T&M need more political support and coaching. It doesn't help them to be #3 in Mozer's group. I would love to see them go to either Vasiliev or Tamara. The RSF really needs to support Vasiliev who is a proven successful coach.

 

[legjumper]

T/M need to leave Mozer and get a coach who is interested in making them the focus and right now in Mozer's group T/M are only Russian team number #3. Despite the fact that V/T don't even seem serious about competing anymore they will always be the main focus of this group and the same thing is true of S/K. T/M are the future of Russian Pairs but the Russian fed seems more interested in older teams who don't even seem to want to compete.

I think T/M need to start believing in themselves that THEY are the future of Russian pairs and that THEY CAN BE and DESERVE TO BE Russia's #1 pair. Right now they skate like they are grateful to be training with V/T and S/K - that's not a champion's attitude. Maybe another coach can help change their mindset, I don't know. But if any team has future OGM skills, it's this team.

 

[Vash01]

I think T/M need to start believing in themselves that THEY are the future of Russian pairs and that THEY CAN BE and DESERVE TO BE Russia's #1 pair. Right now they skate like they are grateful to be training with V/T and S/K - that's not a champion's attitude. Maybe another coach can help change their mindset, I don't know. But if any team has future OGM skills, it's this team.

They certainly have the skills. I think they need to start winning (not just medal) some GP competitions, make it to the GPF and medal there. They just finished their second year on the senior circuit. I think they are slowly building their confidence. I am happy they were able to go to worlds this year and they skated really well there. Next season they need to make a splash in a major way, but unless they are treated like they are important, it could be a waiting game for them. It's not good for them to be in Mozer's group because they could do better with a coach who believes in them to be a top team, gives them challenging choreography, more attention, etc.

 

[aftershocks]

T/M are gorgeous to look at and they are exquisite technicians, but still to date they have a fairly boring on-ice dynamic and they need better material. Skating cleanly obviously helps their placement against other teams with similar talent level.

In any case, being boring and exquisite technicians with traditional Russian aesthetic did not hold back former T/M (Tot/Mar) from winning OGM. Seemingly, Vasiliev would be a good fit for current T/M too.

... I don't know of any other older team that doesn't want to compete. I am not even sure that V&T are not serious about competing. It's just that their first year back after winning the OGM, they wanted to take it slow this season, but circumstances forced them to compete at worlds and they were mentally not ready for that...
S&K are not 'old'. They are the reigning Olympic silver medallists and potentially OGM contenders in 2018...

Re V/T: excuses, excuses I doubt anyone is counting out V/T if in fact they do keep going toward goal of another Olympics. Still, they don't seem as hungry and motivated. Neither are they getting any younger. Perhaps Max waxing nostalgic about having a baby is partly his effort to lower expectations, whilst in all seriousness, they are still Olympic-competition serious?

In regard to S/K, they had great programs this year, unfortunately not always skated to their fullest potential. They rocked at GPF, but obviously Fedor's injury setback impacted their fitness and training for Worlds. Yes, S/K are not that old, but they are more veteran than T/M and A/R et al.

Perhaps @Jammers was referring to S/K's decision not to compete at Worlds in 2015, which raised a lot of questions and eyebrows. Although S/K's packaging and efforts this season certainly redeem their decision, the choice not to compete at Worlds may have slightly impacted their momentum and how they are viewed. Yet had they gone to Worlds last season with a lack of confidence post-Europeans (and the problematic programs they had), landing off the podium may have had the same effect that bailing out of Worlds did. And yet, another scenario might have had Stol/Klim battling and perhaps reaching the podium in Shanghai at least ahead of Pang/Tong.

 

[lala]

Oh my…. This is getting out of hand.... this is very silly, and now i have interrupt my work project to stop this idiocy ......and i am on deadlines....... ah!

a) Mozer did not say “homemaker” as in “hausfrau”, nor did she even use the Russian word “homemaker”.
In Russian a word for “homemaker” is “домохозяйка”. Mozer used a completely different word - “хранительница домашнего очага”, which is a very respectful, romantic, almost mythological term which means “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.

While one can casually use “keeper of the homestead flame” to mean “housekeeper”/”homemaker”, in the given context Mozer chose a more metaphorical phrase, which does underline gender role differences but is not an insult: “The men are warriors, the women are keepers of the homestead flame”.

Here are some russian pictures of the word she used for a woman - “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hrfnitelnica.jpg
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hestia.jpg
http://mirvsemye.ru/images3/zhenshchina-hranitelnitsa-domashnego-ochaga(2).jpg

- “men off to war, while women keep fire of home and love” as a phrase, is a popular image in Russia, and the whole idea behind the song "Katiousha".
https://prv1.lori-images.net/devush...zhaet-na-voinu-soldata-0012904645-preview.jpg
http://coollib.com/i/16/303816/i_091.jpg
http://pit.dirty.ru/dirty/1/2011/01/30/30352-222433-27eff1e54bd1b9329d703ad1476552db.jpg

I don’t think she was referring to mythology, nor do I agree with her gender evaluation, but certainly she did not use a term which belittles women.

b) Mozer did not say “white people”. She did not even use the word “people”, but used the word “white” in combination with the word “race”, which in Russian means “Caucasians”. Given that the rest of her comments were about variations in the anatomy of different races, she was referring to anthropology.

c) Mozer’s comments about skeletal muscle structure differences are not “racism”.
Ethnicity related skeletal muscle structure differences and variations (along with other differences) are COMMON subjects of study, weather or not there is validity to the findings. It is a normal subject for discussion.
https://aminer.org/archive/53e9a45cb7602d9702d78261
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2795070/

Thank you for your explanation. I always love your meaningful and informative posts, which is free of any malice.... Tomas Verner said this:
http://fs-gossips.com/tomas-verner-dont-limit-your-thinking/

"If not to take into account Javier Fernandez and Russians the level of men’s figure skating in Europe is not too high. What, in your opinion, is the problem?

Tomas: Well, not only Russians and Fernandez, Israel performed very strongly, Alexei Bychenko won silver. Global reason, in my opinion, is that it’s easier for Asians to jump quadruples. They have more suitable body constitution for that. They are smaller than us Europeans. Compare Japanese growth of 160 centimeters and weighing 56 kilograms with me, for example. Growth 180, “fighting” weight was 71 kg. Plushenko’s growth also 180. Brian Joubert’s weight was 74 kilograms. The difference in 20 kilograms with the Japanese is a serious problem.

And why is it?

Tomas: When I look at Yuzuru Hanyu, at other Japanese skaters, I see that they are almost not tired after the execution of the program. If I had a weight of 56 kg I wouldn’t have been tired to end of the free program. But there is one method how to compete with the Asians. It called “lots of trainings” (laughs)."

I think Nina talked about similar thing and that is not racism.

 

[Meoima]

Tomas: When I look at Yuzuru Hanyu, at other Japanese skaters, I see that they are almost not tired after the execution of the program. If I had a weight of 56 kg I wouldn’t have been tired to end of the free program. But there is one method how to compete with the Asians. It called “lots of trainings” (laughs)."

https://youtu.be/ucbmZDKrYSw?t=5m

 

[lala]

https://youtu.be/ucbmZDKrYSw?t=5m

he has asthma...

he was sick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNIENLK-tfM&t=5m15s

 

[Meoima]

he has asthma...

Other than Yuzuru, the rest of Japanese men don't have higher success rate in quads and 3A. Daisuke? Kozuka? Oda? Even Shoma failed his quads at 4CC and WC.
I don't get why some skaters and coaches keep saying "Asian bodies are blah blah... having more advantage than us" while in fact the non-Asians are still dominating the whole medal counter.

 

[MsZem]

Thank you for your explanation. I always love your meaningful and informative posts, which is free of any malice.... Tomas Verner said this:
http://fs-gossips.com/tomas-verner-dont-limit-your-thinking/

"If not to take into account Javier Fernandez and Russians the level of men’s figure skating in Europe is not too high. What, in your opinion, is the problem?

Tomas: Well, not only Russians and Fernandez, Israel performed very strongly, Alexei Bychenko won silver. Global reason, in my opinion, is that it’s easier for Asians to jump quadruples. They have more suitable body constitution for that. They are smaller than us Europeans. Compare Japanese growth of 160 centimeters and weighing 56 kilograms with me, for example. Growth 180, “fighting” weight was 71 kg. Plushenko’s growth also 180. Brian Joubert’s weight was 74 kilograms. The difference in 20 kilograms with the Japanese is a serious problem.

He's talking about how being lighter helps with jumping; this is hardly news. Mozer went on about purely invented physical differences and Asian women as keepers of the homestead flame or homemakers or whatever. It was a bunch of stereotypical rubbish.

 

[barbarafan]

https://youtu.be/ucbmZDKrYSw?t=5m

yes Meoima..quite true....but Hanyu has asthma so he used to lose his breath by the end of the long program..In the last 2 years he worked on a tremendous amount of conditioning increasing his strength and lung capacity so he could keep up his quality to the very end.

Asian athletes do seem to be smaller...but not delicate in any way. They are very strong and wiry. So yes Caucasions have to work harder in some areas but have the benifit of good ice coverge as long as they have very good skating skills.

 

[Meoima]

yes Meoima..quite true....but Hanyu has asthma so he used to lose his breath by the end of the long program..In the last 2 years he worked on a tremendous amount of conditioning increasing his strength and lung capacity so he could keep up his quality to the very end.
Asian athletes do seem to be smaller...but not delicate in any way. They are very strong and wiry. So yes Caucasions have to work harder in some areas but have the benifit of good ice coverge as long as they have very good skating skills.

To be fair, most skaters (even they're Asian or non-Asian) are small people. Javi is considered small for European. So of course it might be easier for Javi (who is 1m7) to land quads than Tomas (who is 1m83). But it has nothing to do with being Asian or not, right? There are some very small people in Europe, and some very tall people in Asia too.
European ladies and Asian ladies can be just as tall and slim the same (Yuna and Mao are not short), and many Ballerina (who are mostly European) are so thin, right?
Yes, some skaters can be too tall too big for jumps, but that does not prevent them from success, look at Evan for example. And some skaters like Zijun Li who might have the same body type as Yuna Kim but you see the huge difference of their skills? Well... it depends on various factors.

 

[feraina]

Tomas: When I look at Yuzuru Hanyu, at other Japanese skaters, I see that they are almost not tired after the execution of the program. If I had a weight of 56 kg I wouldn’t have been tired to end of the free program. But there is one method how to compete with the Asians. It called “lots of trainings” (laughs)."

I think Nina talked about similar thing and that is not racism.

Gosh, no one remembers how much Hanyu used to struggle with stamina?! Remember how he used to pant through the second half of his programs, and collapse to the ice after the finishing pose??

Is Patrick Chan, with his three WC titles, thinner than Tomas?

 

[Meoima]

Gosh, no one remembers how much Hanyu used to struggle with stamina?! Remember how he used to pant through the second half of his programs, and collapse to the ice after the finishing pose??
Is Patrick Chan, with his three WC titles, thinner than Tomas?

Well to be fair, Patrick is even shorter than 1m70 and Tomas is taller than 1m80. But again, you can find some guys in Asian who are over 1m80. It's just they don't choose to follow FS. And you can find some guys in Europe who are under 1m75 and with bodies that are good for jumps but they don't choose FS.

 

[lala]

He's talking about how being lighter helps with jumping; this is hardly news. Mozer went on about purely invented physical differences and Asian women as keepers of the homestead flame or homemakers or whatever. It was a bunch of stereotypical rubbish.

Maybe. But many people think similar thing because of the movies, the novels etc. The Japanese, Asian women look like the beautiful porcelain dolls, and they are very modest. That's what I thought until one of my friends story. He lives in Sanghai and he has a Chinese girlfriend . According to him the Shanghai women are very strong business women. And they have many fightings, she is very jealous and once she chased him with a knife around the table....

yes Meoima..quite true....but Hanyu has asthma so he used to lose his breath by the end of the long program..In the last 2 years he worked on a tremendous amount of conditioning increasing his strength and lung capacity so he could keep up his quality to the very end.

Asian athletes do seem to be smaller...but not delicate in any way. They are very strong and wiry. So yes Caucasions have to work harder in some areas but have the benifit of good ice coverge as long as they have very good skating skills.

Yes. I know they are very strong, they have very strong legs, they are very facile, fast, supple, flexible. The best example is Bruce Lee. But we can talk about the Japanese and Chinese gymnasts.

Other than Yuzuru, the rest of Japanese men don't have higher success rate in quads and 3A. Daisuke? Kozuka? Oda? Even Shoma failed his quads at 4CC and WC.

Because they are more nervous types, they are worse competitors..

I don't get why some skaters and coaches keep saying "Asian bodies are blah blah... having more advantage than us" while in fact the non-Asians are still dominating the whole medal counter.

You know some years ago I was thinking about Jeremy Abbott . He is really a bad jumper. I watched him and I thought he is a big guy, he has wide hips, he has a shapely buttocks, I'm sure he has pretty heavy weight thus difficult to lift in jumps. And I remember Plushenko always had hard diet before the competitions. He ate only jogurt and some bananas. The Asian people is strong but very light and springy, as I wrote to barbarafan.. Look at Boyang, as a pencil. So I don't think Mozer's words are so stupid.

 

[lala]

Well to be fair, Patrick is even shorter than 1m70 and Tomas is taller than 1m80. But again, you can find some guys in Asian who are over 1m80. It's just they don't choose to follow FS. And you can find some guys in Europe who are under 1m75 and with bodies that are good for jumps but they don't choose FS.

This isn't a logic argument.

 

[Meoima]

This isn't a logic argument.

It is logic because if you want to bring the race card (like Asian are smaller so they have better chance in this sport) you have to compare those who are the same height and same body type to the table. It's not fair to compare a guy who is 1m8 (regardless of his race) to a guy who is 1m7 (regardless of his race) and say that the guy who is 1m8 has the bad luck because he's non-Asian.
Tomas might jump worse than Yuzuru and Boyang. But he also jumps worse than Javi. Is it because Yuzuru and Boyang are thin? Don't forget it's Javi who won WC 2015 and 2016.

 

[lala]

It is logic because if you want to bring the race card (like Asian are smaller so they have better chance in this sport) you have to compare those who are the same height to the table. It's not fair to compare a guy who is 1m8 (regardless of his race) to a guy who is 1m7 (regardless of his race).
Tomas might jump worse than Yuzuru and Boyang. But he also jumps worse than Javi. Is it because Yuzuru and Boyang are thin? Don't forget it's Javi who won WC 2015 and 2016.

Sorry it is an insult for me. If you do not want to understand what I say, it makes no sense to talk.

edit: There are other aspects what make a skater good jumper.

 

[burntBREAD]

Why are non-Asian people trying to dictate what's racist and not racist, and why are these non-Asian people such experts about not only biological makeup of different peoples and the supposed advantages of Asian bodies, but now also the social norms and expected behaviors of Asians??? I don't even know some of these things that have been said and I AM one (or at least I thought I was)!! Guess it's time to reevaluate how I live my life as well as what figure out what my TRUE biological background is, since I'm obviously more European than Asian when it comes to my physical traits!

 

[Meoima]

Yes. I know they are very strong, they have very strong legs, they are very facile, fast, supple, flexible. The best example is Bruce Lee. But we can talk about the Japanese and Chinese gymnasts.

Do you know how many Bruce Lee we have here in Asia? I am not sure he would make a good skater.

Because they are more nervous types, they are worse competitors.

Are Daisuke, Shoma, Kozuka's jumps are better than Voronov, Kovtun, or Javi? I mean, technically speaking, if you compare their best jumps side by side, not compare how they do the jumps in competition.

You know some years ago I was thinking about Jeremy Abbott . He is really a bad jumper. I watched him and I thought he is a big guy, he has wide hips, he has a shapely buttocks, I'm sure he has pretty heavy weight thus difficult to lift in jumps. And I remember Plushenko always had hard diet before the competitions. He ate only jogurt and some bananas. The Asian people is strong but very light and springy, as I wrote to barbarafan.. Look at Boyang, as a pencil. So I don't think Mozer's words are so stupid.

Do you know how many Boyang we have compare to the rest of their population (remember China has 1,3 million people)? How many Yuzuru we have? Do we have 10 or 20 of them who can jump that well?
And look at Satoko Miyahara and say that "Asian people are strong but very light and springy".

Sorry it is an insult for me. If you do not want to understand what I say, it makes no sense to talk.
edit: There are other aspects what make a skater good jumper.

You keep saying Asian people are small and light and fast thus they have the advantage in this sport but I have said, if you compare the results, the medals of FS in history, it says otherwise. And if you compare their jump technique side by side (European and Asian skaters) and do not take into account the results, you can see that Asian skaters do not dominate that much.

 

[Xela M]

Other than Yuzuru, the rest of Japanese men don't have higher success rate in quads and 3A. Daisuke? Kozuka? Oda? Even Shoma failed his quads at 4CC and WC.
I don't get why some skaters and coaches keep saying "Asian bodies are blah blah... having more advantage than us" while in fact the non-Asians are still dominating the whole medal counter.

People also clearly don't remember the Plushenko/Yagudin era.

Plus, Fernandez - the World Champion of the past 2 seasons - is certainly not a 56kg-lightweight.

 

[Xela M]

If it was really an advantage to be Asian in skating, we would have Asian dominance across the board surely? Instead we don't even have a single Asian World Champion and haven't had one for the past 2 years. There is also ice dance where Asia has no presence whatsoever.

Maybe white people (i.e. Russian pairs, men and dance) should stop fricking whining and train instead?

(and I'm white)

 

[lala]

Ok.
In my country was a method: sports selection. Experts of different sports advertise a preliminary. In a good case many children go there. The experts make many tests, examinations: how old , how tall they are, what size shoes to wear, how big his hands... .
They ask many questions:
How tall are their parents, grandparents, etc.
Maybe this is a racist method but with it that child who would be a great gymnast won't be send to a basketball player.

 

[Meoima]

Ok.
In my country was a method: sports selection. Experts of different sports advertise a preliminary. In a good case many children go there. The experts make many tests, examinations: how old , how tall they are, what size shoes to wear, how big his hands... .
They ask many questions:
How tall are their parents, grandparents, etc.
Maybe this is a racist method but with it that child who would be a great gymnast won't be send to a basketball player.

Selection based on body types isn't racism. It's selection based on race is racism. It's true that body types matter in some certain sports. It's true that Asian in general are smaller than Europeans. However we can have all type of body types in all races. You can be European but small. And you can be Asian but huge (Yao Ming for example).
In FS you usually see that single skaters in general are small people. But small people don't only exist in Asia. And there are still some tall people do jump well (Plushy for example is tall as a skater).
It's true because if you're huge you have to overcome some issues that short people don't have to face. But short people also have issue that tall people have to face less.
Liza surely jumps better than Mao (when both of them are on). Then we have Polina Turskaysa who jumps super well for her height.

 

[lala]

People also clearly don't remember the Plushenko/Yagudin era.

Plus, Fernandez - the World Champion of the past 2 seasons - is certainly not a 56kg-lightweight.

Yagudin was a short strong guy, Plushenko is taller but he was very very thin when he had the peak time. And look at his upper body, that isn't too muscular . And I think that was a conscious decision from Mishin, nevertheless it remained a very elegant body, those muscles aren't too important.

And yes, I'm waiting for the Asian dominance in our beloved sport.

 

[Xela M]

Ok.
In my country was a method: sports selection. Experts of different sports advertise a preliminary. In a good case many children go there. The experts make many tests, examinations: how old , how tall they are, what size shoes to wear, how big his hands... .
They ask many questions:
How tall are their parents, grandparents, etc.
Maybe this is a racist method but with it that child who would be a great gymnast won't be send to a basketball player.

But... Plushenko - your love - is white, right? And probably the best jumper of all time

 

[lala]

Selection based on body types isn't racism. It's true that body types matter in some certain sports. It's true that Asian in general are smaller than Europeans. However we can have all type of body types in all races. You can be European but small. And you can be Asian but huge (Yao Ming for example).
In FS you usually see that single skaters in general are small people. It's true because if you're huge you usually don't jump well. But small people don't only exist in Asia. And there are still some tall people do jump well (Plushy for example is tall as a skater).
For example Liza surely jumps better than Mao (when both of them are on).

Where did you read when I wrote only the Asian people can be good skaters, good jumpers? I said the Asian men have better physical characteristics to skating in general. And I think Mozer also talked about it in general.

Plus there are always exceptions..and as we know there are other aspects what make a skater good jumper.

 

[lala]

But... Plushenko - your love - is white, ? And probably the best jumper of all time

I hate this. I didn't talk about it. You are not fair.

 

[Meoima]

Where did you read when I wrote only the Asian people can be good skaters, good jumpers? I said the Asian men have better endowments to skating in general. And I think Mozer also talked about it in general.
Plus there are always exceptions..and as we know there are other aspects what make a skater good jumper.

I still don't see that Asian men have better endowment than European (or white men) in general when it comes to skating. The results state that non-Asian still dominate the medal count in general.
And if you slow down their take off, you can see many flaws in the Asian skaters' technique, just about the same as European skaters. The keyword is you need correct teaching from young. That's the point.
I'm not sure about Boyang, but being thin like Yuzuru isn't that much of an advantage as he has been injured so many times if you compare him to Javi and Patrick who are in general healthy and have much less injuries.
And don't forget some Asian men like Nam and Han Yan who also has quads and 3A even didn't make it to free skate at Boston.

 

[lala]

I still don't see that Asian men have better endowment than European (or white men) in general when it comes to skating. The results state that non-Asian still dominate the medal count in general.

I'm saying again: nerv, jump technic, the best coaches are Russians or North-Americans

What do you think why the Asian short track skaters are the best?

And if you slow down their take off, you can see many flaws in the Asian skaters' technique, just about the same as European skaters. The keyword is you need correct teaching from young. That's the point.

Agreed. The good physical characteristics don't mean that they will be better skaters.. Good endowments +talent+will+good coach+good jump technic+nerve=outstanding skater

I'm not sure about Boyang, but being thin like Yuzuru isn't that of an advantage when he has been injured so many times. Compared to Javi and Patrick who are in general healthy and have much less injuries, I don't see being super thin help Yuzuru in this case.

I think when the ice skaters rise to approx. the same height or higher because they have lighter body weight, a thin skater turns on his axis much faster. This is the advantage.

Who can jump easier Jeremy or Boyang?

And don't forget some Asian men like Nam and Han Yan who also has quads and 3A even didn't make it to free skate at Boston.

Nervs....

 

[Meoima]

I think when the ice skaters rise to approx. the same height or higher because they have lighter body weight, a thin skater turns on his axis much faster. This is the advantage.
Who can jump easier Jeremy or Boyang?

Jeremy Abbot is 1m78, and Boyang Jin is 1m68.
It has nothing to do with being Asian or not.
You can always find some Asian folks who's bigger than Jeremy and jumps worse or better than Jeremy if they got enough training from young like him.
And please watch JGP, Japan national, and maybe Chinese national, you will find soke folks who are as thin as Yuzuru and Boyang but jump much worse than then.
And in Russia there have been many guys who have the same body build as Plushy (and some folks look like Yagudin), but do they jump as well as Plushy and Yagudin?