Bill Cosby Meme Generator Backfires

[mag]

I don't even know if I have gut instinct. Never having been in a situation where I was made to feel uncomfortable, or suspicious, or felt the need to keep an eye out for my safety, I don't know how I would react if I were to find myself in one.

And this, when generalized to the population, is a real problem. I know we have had this discussion in another thread. "Gut instinct," "spidy sense," "that little voice," are something that I believe are learned starting at a very young age. Parents need to help their children, both boys and girls, development it. Kids are unlikely to develop it if they are so controlled, organized, and watched by adults that they never experience that little bit of fear or uncertainty. Obviously we shouldn't throw our children to the wolves, but we can give them more and more atonomy as they get older. We can talk to them about how they feel in different circumstances, and we can allow them to trust their feelings even when it is inconvenient or embarrassing for us. When a child feels uncomfortable doing something, hugging a relative, being alone somewhere, and we insist they do it because "it is okay and they will be fine," we are teaching them not to trust their instincts. Then, when they are in grade 8 and they go to a party and go up to a bedroom with a grade 12 boy to see a fish tank, we get angry and ask why they thought that was a good idea? And didn't they know what would happen? Well, of course they didn't, we taught them early on not to trust their own inner alarm.

I know that nothing is this simple, but I do think that we often do our kids a disservice because we think they are too young to be learning some things. Look at some video games and kid shows. Look at how the women and men are portrayed. We don't necessarily have to stop our kids from watching all of it, but we do need to be an active participant. Watching or playing with the child and pointing out how the gender roles are portrayed. "How do you think that character feels about that situation?" "How did that character earn the money for the lifestyle you see in the show?" "Yes, we are laughing at the joke, but do you think that girl who is being called fat thinks it is funny." "How do you think she feels ?" "How would you feel in that situation."

Sorry for the long rant. I feel very passionate about the parenting side of this and how we are raising both our boys and and girls. Nothing excuses the behaviour of adults and there will always be those who, no matter what the upbringing, just have their wires crossed, but I believe that if we can start early we really could make a difference.

 

[attyfan]

Is there a difference between blaming the victim and pointing out prudent behavior?

Sometimes I think we get so concerned with not blaming the victim that we take away all agency on the part of women. Pointing out prudent behavior is not intended to let perps off the hook, but to give women tools that can help avoid or deal with such situations in the first place.

IMO, it depends a lot on context. For example, over 35 years ago, there was a big case involving the rape of a teenage girl who was hitch-hiking. The rapist was convicted, but the judge imposed a very low sentence, on the theory that it wouldn't have happened if she hadn't been hitch-hiking. That is blaming the victim ... when the focus is on the victim's actions, such that the perp gets off, or his culpability is reduced. My mother OTOH emphasized "see why I don't want you ever to hitch-hike" -- this is merely pointing out the dangers of certain behavior. Nothing reduces the perp's part.

 

[Aceon6]

But are they given the go ahead to act on it? Not sure about nowadays, but when I was a kid, we were told to obey our elders, whether relatives, teachers, coaches, school bus drivers or next door neighbours. If a kid said "I don't like Mr So and So," or "I don't want to go to gymnastics class anymore," they might just as easily be admonished for not being respectful or being a quitter or the like. And I'm not saying parents were bad - it was just the way as I recall more often than not. Now mind you it's entirely possibly that parents were paying close attention and talking it over with other parents and taking action, but from the kid's perspective, the lesson was to keep quiet and don't question people in authority positions.

And later there's so much pressure from other kids - for example if a kid isn't comfortable with something, the other kids might chide them to "grow up" or "be cool." That happened a lot when I was a kid, and from what I can tell, it hasn't changed.

I can only go by what my younger relatives are teaching their kids. They're being told "If being around a particular adult makes you feel funny, let us know" and "If you want to get out of something with your friends, text us with our special code and we'll text you back saying you have to come home"

 

[Southpaw]

They're being told "If being around a particular adult makes you feel funny, let us know"

I think it's good that kids are being taught to look out for themselves, but this is one thing that I could see ripe for potential exploitation and abuse. When I was a kid I hated going to CCD classes. Not because anybody made me feel funny or because I hated the Catholic church. I didn't want to go to CCD because when I got home from school I just wanted to stay the frig home, I didn't want to be running out for even MORE school. No matter how much I begged and pleaded not to go to CCD I was denied.

But if I had a get out of CCD card like this? Could maybe be tempting to a 10 year-old who just wanted to climb trees after school. I don't think kids climb trees any more though. They might get hurt.

 

[Aceon6]

I think it's good that kids are being taught to look out for themselves, but this is one thing that I could see ripe for potential exploitation and abuse.

I guess it depends on the family. In our family, it's not a "get out of doing the activity this adult is involved in" card, it's a "don't have to spend time alone with this person" card.

 

[Karina1974]

Yes, everybody around these parts pretty much does. Or did. The sound of low flying airplanes tend to make us say "oh crap not again."

The road I drive to go over to visit my parents crosses the landing/take-off pattern of the Albany International Airport. I had only been living in my first apartment for a month when 9/11 happened (I'm still in that same apartment). Even today, I cringe when I see the shadow on the road of a plane passing overhead.

 

[mag]

I can only go by what my younger relatives are teaching their kids. They're being told "If being around a particular adult makes you feel funny, let us know" and "If you want to get out of something with your friends, text us with our special code and we'll text you back saying you have to come home"

When I was a teenager we had to call home from a pay phone Any time I called and asked if I could stay out later than the agreed upon time, my parents always asked if I wanted them to say "no." Usually I did, so they would, then I could tell my friends how mean my parents were and that I had to go right home.

 

[mag]

Sorry for the double post ...

We have an agreement with our neighbours who also have two teenage children. Basically, if any of the kids are out and they feel they are not in a safe situation, they can call anyone of the four adults and we will pick them up, anytime, anywhere, day or night, no questions asked. I remember years ago there was a boy named Jesse Cadman. He called his dad asking for a ride home. I believe his dad had a cold and told his son to take the bus. On the way to the bus stop Jesse was jumped by a gang of kids and beaten to death. I can't imagine the agony his dad went through. The dad went on to do a lot of work in the community around youth and violence. He later was elected to the federal government. He did a lot of good before he died of cancer, but I suspect that phone called haunted him forever.

 

[Southpaw]

I've been sitting racking my brains and wondering if I had a "call us and we'll tell you no" game with my parents in the 80s, but I didn't. They flat out told me what I was not allowed to do when I was out in the world, and that was it. One of the things I was not allowed to do was to get into cars with guys. Some guy from the neighborhood pulled up and asked my friends and I if we wanted to go for a ride? I had to stand there and look them in the face and plainly say "No, I can't go" and that was the end of that. No game playing. Just flat out "No, I can't go" and it sucked for me at the time when they'd drive off and leave me behind at the curb, but I guess it built character? Or something?

 

[quartz]

I've been sitting racking my brains and wondering if I had a "call us and we'll tell you no" game with my parents in the 80s, but I didn't. They flat out told me what I was not allowed to do when I was out in the world, and that was it. One of the things I was not allowed to do was to get into cars with guys. Some guy from the neighborhood pulled up and asked my friends and I if we wanted to go for a ride? I had to stand there and look them in the face and plainly say "No, I can't go" and that was the end of that. No game playing. Just flat out "No, I can't go" and it sucked for me at the time when they'd drive off and leave me behind at the curb, but I guess it built character? Or something?

See, I was that girl who got into cars with boys. Went to parties at the homes of strangers, sometimes waking up on their couches the following morning. Hitch hiked all over town. Smoked drugs with anyone who offered. Guys were more interested if I had a roach clip or a hash pipe in my purse, or if I knew how to play euchre. Sex? Guys just didn't see me that way.
Never was afraid at any time. Did I just get really lucky that I was never taken advantage of? My parents weren't around and had no clue what I was up to.

 

[mag]

I've been sitting racking my brains and wondering if I had a "call us and we'll tell you no" game with my parents in the 80s, but I didn't. They flat out told me what I was not allowed to do when I was out in the world, and that was it. One of the things I was not allowed to do was to get into cars with guys. Some guy from the neighborhood pulled up and asked my friends and I if we wanted to go for a ride? I had to stand there and look them in the face and plainly say "No, I can't go" and that was the end of that. No game playing. Just flat out "No, I can't go" and it sucked for me at the time when they'd drive off and leave me behind at the curb, but I guess it built character? Or something?

I never said I called my parents to ask what I should do. It was when there was pressure to stay out past the agreed time, generally when there was plan to do something I knew I didn't want to be involved in. Most of the time I did just say no, but sometimes, circumstances were difficult. My parents knew that being a teenage can be difficult some times and they were not above lending a helping hand when I needed it. Even great, responsible kids get into situations they find tricky. People should feel free to ask for help when they know they are in over their head. That too is an important life lesson. Glad to hear you never had to experience needing a bit of help.

 

[Southpaw]

Well, as I sat here and thought about it some more I remembered that I didn't always stand at the curb and wave goodbye. I did that in my early teen years. In my later teen years I said frig that and I started hopping into cars with a couple of my friends because, ya know, I didn't think it was such a big deal. And it turns out it wasn't. We drove around for a couple of hours and listened to music and explored New Jersey, and we always got dropped off in time for curfew. There was no drinking or drugs involved. Nothing sketchy happened. I never felt afraid in those situations, either. Was I really lucky, too? Or was it solely that there was no quest for power in play and it was simply a bunch of young people enjoying their youth? Did I simply have a knack for hanging out with people who weren't out to harm me?

Now all I hear about is rampant rape culture among the young and I'm like whoa, when did THIS start? We had our isolated incidents but now it seems like it's all over the place. Was it there all along and the Internet is shining a light on it? Or is it worse now than it was then? Music videos are definitely a lot different now than when I was a teenager, as Peter pointed out earlier. The objectification of women seems to have gotten worse. Or has it?

Mag, I wasn't suggesting that the "call home" thing you had with your parents was anything bad. I was simply comparing your teenage experience with mine is all. I didn't have the call home thing. I had the YOU WILL NOT DO THIS thing. Which, obviously, I didn't always obey.

 

[susan6]

So girls are getting warned about what not to do. What are boys getting warned about? From the study that was linked a couple pages back, a lot of sex offenders don't realize they're sex offenders. Men seem to be growing up and somehow learning that getting a girl blind drunk and having sex with her is not rape. I know there aren't that many men on this board, but I'm curious to know what you learned. An interesting commentary in this article here http://jezebel.com/law-and-justice-arent-the-same-interview-with-a-uva-ra-1662629605:

And he genuinely believed he had done nothing wrong. He would not for a second admit he had done anything wrong.
Right. Like to have sex with someone that has never expressed any sexual interest in you and that you personally got so drunk as to require medical attention—like that's just part of college.

Yeah. He genuinely believed that, and so did all of those guys. He was honestly an average dude. Bro McBroster. They all thought it was okay. ...... They are smart kids, smart people. They entered a good university with a frat culture where you're told, "You get girls drunk and then you can **** them and that's what we all do."

Now all I hear about is rampant rape culture among the young and I'm like whoa, when did THIS start? We had our isolated incidents but now it seems like it's all over the place. Was it there all along and the Internet is shining a light on it? Or is it worse now than it was then? Music videos are definitely a lot different now than when I was a teenager, as Peter pointed out earlier. The objectification of women seems to have gotten worse. Or has it?

I'm wondering about the proliferation of porn and the type of porn on the internet. I'm not a connoisseur or anything, so I can't accurately judge trends, but it seems like there's a lot more porn that's seriously degrading to women out there nowadays. There's a big difference between "wow, they're both enjoying themselves" and "wow, he's pounding her like a piece of meat". You get a generation of guys raised on the latter, what's going to happen?

 

[MacMadame]

And about this quote from the article above: "Across the country and with increasing frequency, innocent victims of impossible-to-substantiate charges are afforded scant rights to fundamental fairness and find themselves entrapped in a widening web of this latest surge in political correctness."

I want to see the source for her assertion.

Given how much evidence there is that most accusations are swept under the rug and not dealt with at all, I'd be willing to bet that her source is "it happened to us so it must be a mass movement." I say that because I see these sorts of articles all the time where something happens to someone and they talk about how whatever it is is increasing and it's all based on anecdotes. Plus, I haven't seen any statistics that support the idea that this is happening with "increasing frequency." It still seems to be pretty rare. One stat I read said that false accusations make up about 8% of all reports. And that only about 20-40%% of all rapes are reported depending the source. Here are two articles that talk about the problem of under-reporting, inaccurate statistics and give some estimates.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...xual-assaults-greatly-underreported-/3648197/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html

Not that I really trust schools to handle these things very well so I don't doubt what happened to her son happened or that it does sometimes happen. My own experiences with having the school involved when my kid was having issues of sexual harassment with another kid were not good. It's not that they were not well-meaning -- they were -- but they clearly had no idea how to handle any situation with any degree of subtlety. It's like they had a blueprint and you had to fit into it. But, like I said, I see no evidence that it happens more now than it used to or that it happens more than rarely.

 

[Southpaw]

An interesting commentary in this article here http://jezebel.com/law-and-justice-arent-the-same-interview-with-a-uva-ra-1662629605

That Jezebel article is positively repulsive and disturbing. Again, at the risk of sounding like Tipper Gore maybe these kids really got some screwed up ideas about college from those Girls Gone Wild commercials that were all over the freaking place when they were little. Then the moved on to Internet porn. And now they're simply acting out what they've been seeing on television from Day One?

This was not my college experience in the late 80s. I had no interest in the frat boys, I thought they were all assholes. I had no use for sorority girls, either. I hung out with the weirdo alternative kids, we may have done some dopey crap while we listened to the Smiths, but it wasn't like this. I'm not saying this sort of thing didn't happen at the frat parties, it very well could have. But I did go to a couple of frat parties because I had friends from high school who got into the frat scene and nothing like this happened while I was there. Or maybe it did and I didn't see it. I remember when the roofies thing started hitting the news around 1990-91, though, because at that point I was going to punk/alterna/goth bars and clubs and I suddenly started guarding my drinks.

 

[judiz]

Maybe we forget that celebrities are strangers because they seem so familiar to us. Their public image is a product generated by a publicist and not necessarily who they are in private life.

Exactly, in the case of Cosby, some of the women involved said they met with him privately because they were hoping he could give them advice or help with their careers. They thought they were meeting with Fat Albert, the character he played on I Spy, the comedian heard on late night tv or Dr Huxtable so they agreed to the hotel room or dressing room meetings. Now if those same women were hoping to break into another field, would they had been as likely to meet a banker, teacher or businessman in a hotel room? Most likely not, the meeting would had taken place in a public setting such as the hotel bar or an office setting during work hours.

 

[Southpaw]

On my way home tonight I got treated to the experience of being surrounded by a pack of loud teenage skateboard boys. Oh goodie, I get to eavesdrop in the interest of field research. There were a couple of the standard demeaning comments about girls, about eleventy billion "ni$$a"s casually tossed around like Nerf footballs, and then at some point one of them stunned me with "Hey, watch your mouth there's a lady sitting next to you!" But it didn't stop them, they kept going. Oh well, I have to give him credit he tried.

Then I sit down to catch up on the news and find this...

Three additional Ramapo College students were arrested Monday in connection with the sexual assault of a fellow student at a dorm room on campus, officials said.
Justin Sommers and Christopher Rainone, both 18 of Staten Island, New York, were charged with endangering an injured victim and invasion of privacy, Prosecutor John L. Molinelli said in a statement. Jordyn Massood, also 18, of Wayne, was charged with endangering an injured victim.

All three were arrested on campus without incident and released ahead of appearances in municipal court, authorities said.

Two students who were already charged with assaulting the woman after a fraternity party Nov. 15 -- Christian A. Lopez, 24, of Secaucus, and Nakeem D. Gardner, 18, of Paterson -- now face new charges, the prosecutor added.

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/...sex_assault_prosecutor_says.html#incart_river

 

[made_in_canada]

That Jezebel article is heartbreaking.

This broader discussion is timely. I just got into an argument with a coworker about some of this stuff. I sometimes do high angle rope rescue and confined space rescue at an oil refinery. We work in teams of 2 or 3 depending on the job and most jobs consist of us sitting in a cube van waiting for something to go wrong. One of the guys I work with is 50-ish and a complete pig. The way he talks about women (including his wife and daughters) makes me sick. I've never heard him say a single respectful thing about women and in his mind women exist to be used, preferably sexually (even if it's just in his mind). Now, I don't think he'd ever actually lay a hand on me or another woman but his attitude makes me uncomfortable. I've heard how he talks about the women he works with at his other job and I know he makes similar comments about me. I refuse to work with him on a two person crew, and protect myself by not ever being alone with him. He's really good at skirting the line between what will get him in trouble and what he can get away with. I was complaining to another coworker about him and he basically told me I was being too sensitive. I shouldn't care what the pig coworker thinks and he's entitled to his opinion. The coworker I was complaining to is in his early 30s and fairly educated (though somewhat sheltered) so yeah, I think there's a big attitude problem about this kind of stuff and its every generation. He makes me the same kind of uncomfortable is when random men catcall or make comments about my ass. It's inappropriate, and I don't appreciate being reduced to a sexual object. But apparently I should just be flattered

Having said that though, I refuse to live in fear. Realistically, a random rape is unlikely to happen. If I'm going to be raped it'll likely be by someone I know and someone I'll trust enough to let in the door. I don't want to approach all men as possible rapists, I don't think that's fair or necessary.

 

[snoopy]

Eh, I think there was at least one generation of guys that were taught not to treat women like that. But the older generations were taught to be sexist and the younger ones have been taught "there is no such thing as right and wrong". So you get people saying things like pigs are entitled to their opinion and to mouth it off in front of you.

 

[Southpaw]

On the objectification of women in entertainment topic, here's Bette Midler on Ariana Grande. Don't ever change, Bette!

Giving Grande a little credit, Midler added that she realized that the 21-year-old singer's public persona was probably less Grande's doing and more how her manager was pitching her to the press. "I wish they'd stop. But it's not my business, I'm not her mother. Or her manager," she said. "Maybe they tell them that's what you've got to do. Sex sells. Sex has always sold."

Midler quipped, "I mean, apparently people really like to pretend they're having sex. They really like to slap each other's butts."

Midler did leave her interview on a high note. Offering up a bit of advice to younger female entertainers. "Trust your talent," she said. "You don't have to make a whore out of yourself to get ahead. You really don't."

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/bette-midler-slams-ariana-grandes-121000513.html

 

[antmanb]

Is there a difference between blaming the victim and pointing out prudent behavior?

Sometimes I think we get so concerned with not blaming the victim that we take away all agency on the part of women. Pointing out prudent behavior is not intended to let perps off the hook, but to give women tools that can help avoid or deal with such situations in the first place.

The difference would be how you phrase it and what you call "prudent behaviour" because people who knowingly engage in victim blaming are usually quite adept at feigning shock, *SHOCK*, they tell you, that they could possibly be accusing the victim, when all they suggested was they wear longer skirts.

 

[Scrufflet]

We're talking about sex education and daughters. That's important, but those are secondary issues to me. While sex ed is important, the more important topic is objectification of women. You just have to watch the 300 million views of most of the popular music videos to see how females are presented and how males are presented to see how one gender is viewed in a much more human way than the other gender. And while discussions and information for young females is important, it's the males who grow up to use or attack females. So what are we (society/us) doing and saying (or NOT doing and saying) to young males that make them think this kind of treatment of females is in ANY way acceptable??

Is there a way to LIKE this a gazillion times?

 

[Scrufflet]

This. I'm still waiting for a story about how a guy attempted to rape some woman and wound up in intensive care because she busted something heavy like a chair over his head. We need to start teaching the younger generation of women that it is always OK to act like a bitch if the guy is being disrespectful, because being "nice" and "ladylike" sets you up for being a target. If I had any daughters they wouldn't have a choice about being put into Martial Arts, although it would have to be a school that also teaches the psychological side - that when it comes down to it, you fight until your attacker is laid out cold on the ground.

Let me be the one to give you a turn-the-tables story! It's true! I had a cousin (never met her) who showed up in the news about 20 yrs. ago, charged with assault on a hockey player. It was very oddly worded, seemed like everyone was trying to cover up the details. Turned out he was a tough enforcer who had decided not to pay for services rendered and she put him in the hospital with a broken nose and other damaged body parts. My jaw certainly dropped. She must have been one tough cookie.

 

[Karina1974]

Let me be the one to give you a turn-the-tables story! It's true! I had a cousin (never met her) who showed up in the news about 20 yrs. ago, charged with assault on a hockey player. It was very oddly worded, seemed like everyone was trying to cover up the details. Turned out he was a tough enforcer who had decided not to pay for services rendered and she put him in the hospital with a broken nose and other damaged body parts. My jaw certainly dropped. She must have been one tough cookie.

I found another one, local to my area.

http://www.timesunion.com/local/art...front-man-who-stalked-stabbed-her-5914263.php

James Sayers picked the wrong victim.

And on Monday, Nancy Crowe let him know it before a judge sentenced him to 18 years to life in prison.

The Gulf War veteran was viciously attacked by Sayers — a convicted child rapist paroled in May — after he followed her from Albany to Colonie, supposedly as just another passenger aboard a Capital District Transportation Authority bus on Aug. 14.

Sayers, a stranger to Crowe, tracked her, grabbed her from behind and forced her into woods, where he repeatedly stabbed the Colonie woman, hitting her face, throat and left eye. She lost sight in the eye as a result of the attack.

But the resilient Sayers, 50, who attained the rank of captain in the Army, fought back.

"I find it ironic that I survived six-and-a-half months in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War in an area targeted by scud missiles, constantly alert to the threat of chemical weapons and terrorist attacks — all without incident," Crowe told state Supreme Court Justice Thomas Breslin. "Twenty-three years later, I came face-to-face with a stranger who tried to kill me. How obscene that I and my fellow veterans, along with current and future members of the military, sacrifice to secure the rights and freedoms of James Sayers while James Sayers violates the rights and freedoms of others."

On Aug. 14, Crowe got on the same bus as Sayers at Quail Street and Central Avenue in Albany and got off at Central and Route 155 in Colonie. Sayers followed Crowe for nearly a mile and a quarter on Route 155 and Watervliet Shaker Road.

After fighting off Sayers, who was previously convicted of raping a 9-year-old girl in 1986, Crowe was treated at Albany Medical Center Hospital for life-threatening injuries.

 

[mag]

It always feels good when people fight back and win. The only concern I have is that we, as a society, need to realize that sometimes fighting back isn't the right choice, that sometimes victims can't fight back. They freeze, go into shock, and then feel guilty afterwards because they didn't fight back. I think the important message is that what ever happens, whether or not you fight back, it is still not the victim's fault. You do what you do at the time to stay alive. There is no right or wrong.

 

[MacMadame]

I am not sure that things are different now. There have always been stories. Stories like Cosby's have been going on in the Entertainment business as long as there has been one. And there have been stories like that in politics too. Women being abused on campus has been going on as long as men have been going to college. Sure, not every college, not every man. And obviously the majority of women haven't been gang raped in college. Plus no one talked about it. So, if you weren't in those circles, it would be easy to be oblivious.

This is also why it was so easy to dismiss. Without any real knowledge, well those women must have done something somehow to bring it on themselves. Or maybe it wasn't as bad as the stories implied. Or it was an isolated incident.

I actually think that's really what is different now. People are talking. Plus with social media and everyone having a camera on them at all times (via our smart phones), it's way harder to cover stuff up than it used to be. People either stupidly document their own behavior or someone documents it for them without their knowledge. And then there is a discussion that is wide open because it's out there.

 

[Aceon6]

Yes, finally people are talking about it. I know my nephew is already preparing for the talk with his 10 yo son, and it's not going to be the talk he got from his dad. I suspect it will be a lot more about respect and not getting sucked into a group of guys who don't understand respect.

 

[Allskate]

This was not my college experience in the late 80s. I had no interest in the frat boys, I thought they were all assholes. I had no use for sorority girls, either. I hung out with the weirdo alternative kids, we may have done some dopey crap while we listened to the Smiths, but it wasn't like this. I'm not saying this sort of thing didn't happen at the frat parties, it very well could have. But I did go to a couple of frat parties because I had friends from high school who got into the frat scene and nothing like this happened while I was there. Or maybe it did and I didn't see it. I remember when the roofies thing started hitting the news around 1990-91, though, because at that point I was going to punk/alterna/goth bars and clubs and I suddenly started guarding my drinks.

You may not have been aware of it happening even though it was. I went to college in the eighties and it definitely was an issue. And not just with frats, though they were notorious. I once had to run and get help to throw a guy out of my room who clearly was intent on having sex with my roommate who was extremely drunk and passed out.

There has been controversy for decades about colleges being unwilling and unable to deal with date rape on campus. Too many colleges prevent law enforcement from getting involved and minimize or eliminate the consequences for the rapists. And it's always been difficult for rape victims to come forward. The fact that the ones who do come forward frequently do not get justice and are victimized again just deters others from coming forward. Not to mention all the blaming of the victim.

I do think that culture is part of the problem. And not just frat culture.

I would guess that this generation of college students has grown up with ready accessibility to computer porn and imagery that not only objectifies women but demeans women and provides online sub-cultures that can make someone rationalize their assaults.

ITA with Bette Midler, who was seen as pretty risque when she was younger. The current crop of young female pop stars includes a lot of young women who are low on substance and high on sexual imagery. And enough with the booty songs!

 

[ArtisticFan]

I think that we also have to look at how we raise children in terms of respect for others and for ourselves. I was raised in a home where you didn't say no to adults. They were always right. They knew best. If my parents weren't there, the man or woman they left in charge was the boss and I wasn't to object to his or her direction. While they didn't realize it, they were essentially raising me to believe that others' opinions, wants, and desires were more important than my own. Unfortunately I wasn't an isolated case in my former home or when I came to the United States. I'm still working past that mentality.

I see it in children I've worked with over the years. Telling a child that he or she must kiss so and so because it is polite is damaging. The worst examples I see of this is with stage parents who tell their children to be adorable, accommodating, and agreeable to those adults who might help or further their careers. It is very scary that we are raising children to become victims.

 

[Japanfan]

Eh, I think there was at least one generation of guys that were taught not to treat women like that.

What generation was that, Snoopy?