RIP Cecil

[MacMadame]

Betty White has a few things to say:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/betty-white-and-cecil-the-lion-2015317

But Ted Nugent, of course, defends the killing. Because he's insane.

 

[Cachoo]

I've spoken with people who have interacted with him and he certainly is. Jimmy John's was started in a nearby college town and is based in my town (actually the adjoining town as my town is much too "liberal" and pro-union) and his "non-compete" clauses for the low paid workers making sandwiches and even the delivery drivers is beyond the pale.

I'll make sure to avoid this establishment.

 

[Vash01]

I hope you realize how entitled you sound. Plenty of people aren't in a field where they can just find another job.

I am not in a field where I can just find another job. After I got laid off, it took me 10 months to find a job and had to take one that paid only 60% of what I was making. Those are things beyond our control, and I don't see any entitlement on my part in my statement. One thing I can say for sure that during my unemployment if my only option had been to take a job that involved killing, I would not have accepted it. It's a matter of principle. Even now if I was offered a high paying job that made me make products that kill, either directly or indirectly, I would not take it. We do have choices when it comes to jobs. Palmer made his choice- to kill animals for fun. There are people that are impacted by it, but it doesn't mean he should not be criticized or punished. When one person in a family does something bad, it affects the whole family, and it still is life. There is suffering in life, sometimes for no fault of that person. We deal with it. Employees are different. They can lose their jobs anyday. They move on to the next chapter in their lives.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Zimbabwe wants lion-killing dentist extradited:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/31/dentist-cecil-lion-zimbabwe/30927415/
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is in contact with the man who killed Cecil the lion,
I'm glad the government of Zimbabwe have officially requested that this scumbag be extradited to their country. Likely the U.S. will wimp out and not do it - he'll probably get off by just paying another Mickey Mouse fine and a slap on the wrist - but at least this animal killer-dentist will know he better not ever set foot in Zimbabwe again nor any other country which may have an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe.

Ted Has-Been Nugent is just another loser - like Palmer.

 

[MacMadame]

So it's okay to threaten to cut off some kid's dad's head even if that will completely traumatize the kid, because "that's life and sometimes bad things happen"? And everyone should quit their job if they find out their employer is doing something they think is immoral/wrong even if that means they lose their house or their kids go hungry because "employees lose their jobs all the time"?

In the first case, I think threatening people in a realistic way (so a reasonable person would actually fear for their life) is wrong. It doesn't matter what they've done because two wrongs don't make a right.

In the second case, I'm not going to fault an employee for staying in a job with a employer who does things they don't agree with because I know nothing of their situation.

 

[Vash01]

So it's okay to threaten to cut off some kid's dad's head even if that will completely traumatize the kid, because "that's life and sometimes bad things happen"? And everyone should quit their job if they find out their employer is doing something they think is immoral/wrong even if that means they lose their house or their kids go hungry because "employees lose their jobs all the time"?

In the first case, I think threatening people in a realistic way (so a reasonable person would actually fear for their life) is wrong. It doesn't matter what they've done because two wrongs don't make a right.

In the second case, I'm not going to fault an employee for staying in a job with a employer who does things they don't agree with because I know nothing of their situation.

I never threatened to cut off anyone's head and I strongly object to you accusing me of that.

I stand by my statements about employees, employers and jobs.

 

[gkelly]

I'm not going to fault an employee for staying in a job with a employer who does things they don't agree with because I know nothing of their situation.

I don't fault them either.

But at the same time, if a business owner breaks a law for which the punishment, e.g., incarceration or massive fines, would result in closing the business, I don't think the owner should be spared that punishment just to protect the employees' jobs.

 

[agalisgv]

I don't fault them either.

But at the same time, if a business owner breaks a law for which the punishment, e.g., incarceration or massive fines, would result in closing the business, I don't think the owner should be spared that punishment just to protect the employees' jobs.

ITA--and i don't think anyone would disagree. But what I wouldn't say is the employees deserved unemployment and all the financial hardships that accompany that simply because by working there, they were somehow complicit in the owner's misdeeds.

 

[Xela M]

Zimbabwe wants lion-killing dentist extradited:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/31/dentist-cecil-lion-zimbabwe/30927415/
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is in contact with the man who killed Cecil the lion, according to a statement issued Friday from the federal agency.

A representative for hunter Walter Palmer voluntarily reached out to the Service Thursday, the statement said. Palmer, a Minnesota dentist, had not been heard from since Tuesday when he issued a statement to his patients and closed his dental practice amid protests.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is investigating the case and the Zimbabwegovernment has called for Palmer's extradition. Palmer allegedly paid about $50,000 to hunt the animal after it was lured from a national park into an unprotected area.

I'm glad the government of Zimbabwe have officially requested that this scumbag be extradited to their country. Likely the U.S. will wimp out and not do it - he'll probably get off by just paying another Mickey Mouse fine and a slap on the wrist - but at least this animal killer-dentist will know he better not ever set foot in Zimbabwe again nor any other country which may have an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe.

Ted Has-Been Nugent is just another loser - like Palmer.

The US don't extradite their own citizens. It's not about wimping out; it's not possible.

 

[MsZem]

The US don't extradite their own citizens. It's not about wimping out; it's not possible.

Er, try again. It is possible, though it may not be probable. Let me quote the relevant part of the article for you:

The United States has a generous extradition treaty with Zimbabwe, which contains a “dual criminality” clause. Under the treaty, if an American commits an act in Zimbabwe that is illegal under both American and Zimbabwean law—and which is punishable by more than one year in prison—America is “obligated” to extradite him to Zimbabwe (and vice versa).

 

[MacMadame]

I never threatened to cut off anyone's head and I strongly object to you accusing me of that.

That's okay. I strongly object to you accusing people of accusing you of thing they haven't accused you of.

You have said that it's okay that people are sending this guy death threats even though that negatively impacts the lives of the people around him such as his children. Because that's life. Or something.

I am saying that I completely disagree with that. It's not okay. That is not accusing you of making death threats. That is "accusing" you of saying it's okay to make death threats. Which you did say. Such as:

I feel no sympathy for Palmer, no matter how harsh the comments. They can't come close to what he did to poor Cecil.

and

If the children are young, they have no choice and it comes with the misfortune of being born to a bad parent or bad parents.

However you also said:

I hope that some day he will be at the receiving end of his 'sport'.

Which is actually pretty close to saying you hope he get skinned and his head cut off. So even though I didn't accuse you of that, I guess I could have.

 

[Xela M]

Er, try again. It is possible, though it may not be probable. Let me quote the relevant part of the article for you:

The existence of an extradition treaty has nothing to do with it. Unless things have changed recently, the U.S. do not extradite their own citizens. Some countries don't extradite their citizens. France is another example of such a country.

 

[MsZem]

The existence of an extradition treaty has nothing to do with it. Unless things have changed recently, the U.S. do not extradite their own citizens. Some countries don't extradite their citizens. France is another example of such a country.

Wrong again - extraditions from the US are certainly uncommon, but they have occurred (note that only some of those listed were US citizens): for instance, this guy.

Again, I doubt that Palmer will be extradited. But you are wrong about it not being possible and you're wrong about the US never extraditing its own citizens. Is your Google not working today?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The US don't extradite their own citizens. It's not about wimping out; it's not possible.

Actually - it IS possible - it's just not very likely in THIS particular case. It's not like he's a wanted murderer of humans - or a rapist.

Here - I'll help you out: U.S. Citizen Extradited To Mexico

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/u...10-year-old-murder-with-conflicting-accounts/

In other words - you're wrong. You should check your facts before posting. Google is your friend.

 

[Japanfan]

He's despicable (as are most hunters in general imo) but sometimes animal love goes over and above human love and people lose all sense of proportion.

Seems to me you are saying that there should be less love for animals than for people, that people are more deserving of it.

So what if some people have more love for animals than people? This doesn't mean that a person conversely hates people, just that a person is more attuned to animals and more involved with them and/or their causes.

And animals need our help and protection, they are largely innocents in this world. It is we humans who are harming them and threatening their existence and welfare.

However, it's possible to love both.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

It's horrifying, no doubt. Sometimes it takes just a drop to attract attention from a large number of people. I didn't know about the problem (and still don't know how widespread it is) until this attracted my attention.

Except that the drop attracting attention from a large number of people usually only lasts a week or so. And a significant percentage of them totally focus on the wrong areas like threats & hopes for harm against people like the dentist's children & employees that just inflame the situation & don't fix the real problems. There was actually a news article about the financial windfall due to increased sales of stuffed lions because people want to leave them at memorials. Lots of cheap imports from China made from non-recyclable materials that will be left out to rot in the rain & then contribute to our already packed landfills. Imagine if people put a little more thought into it & instead those funds had been diverted to conservation organizations that would use them responsibly for change.

Hopefully people will ask themselves what they can do to address the issue on a long term basis now that they are aware of the problem. It has to be more than just signing an online petition this week. It takes years of writing your senator & congressman to take a few steps forward, & is not something to just think about for a few days until the next issue of the week. Sadly so much of what we're seeing is going to be nothing more than a flash in the pan.

 

[Vash01]

The US don't extradite their own citizens. It's not about wimping out; it's not possible.

The existence of an extradition treaty has nothing to do with it. Unless things have changed recently, the U.S. do not extradite their own citizens. Some countries don't extradite their citizens. France is another example of such a country.

It was reported on CNN that the USA has an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe. If the crime is considered a crime in both countries, then the USA has to extradite its citizen. I don't know how the poaching will be treated in the USA. If our legal system does not find him guilty of poaching, he will not be extradited. I think the scumbag will get away with this but he may be more careful when he goes for his next trophy.

If this was a case of murder where he was clearly guilty he would have been extradited.

It's all my interpretation of course.

 

[BittyBug]

From the blog of Wayne Pacelle, President of the Humane Society of the U.S.:

And on Monday, U.S. Senator Robert Menendez, D-N.J., a devoted friend to the work of The HSUS and HSI, is introducing a bill to ban all imports of trophies and parts from African lions and other at-risk species into the United States. The bill is called the Conserving Ecosystems by Ceasing the Importation of Large (CECIL) Animal Trophies Act.

 

[twinsissv]

So sad and sorry for you, Cecil. I understand your brother, Jericho, is now protecting your little ones.
Here's hoping he will be able to step in and and take charge of the pride. LION KING!!!

 

[Meoima]

Except that the drop attracting attention from a large number of people usually only lasts a week or so. And a significant percentage of them totally focus on the wrong areas like threats & hopes for harm against people like the dentist's children & employees that just inflame the situation & don't fix the real problems. There was actually a news article about the financial windfall due to increased sales of stuffed lions because people want to leave them at memorials. Lots of cheap imports from China made from non-recyclable materials that will be left out to rot in the rain & then contribute to our already packed landfills. Imagine if people put a little more thought into it & instead those funds had been diverted to conservation organizations that would use them responsibly for change.

Hopefully people will ask themselves what they can do to address the issue on a long term basis now that they are aware of the problem. It has to be more than just signing an online petition this week. It takes years of writing your senator & congressman to take a few steps forward, & is not something to just think about for a few days until the next issue of the week. Sadly so much of what we're seeing is going to be nothing more than a flash in the pan.

Yes, it takes years for the society to notice they have been killing every animals under the sun, damaging the natural habitat to the point of no return.

In my country rain forests have been destroyed, the result is that now we have nothing but flood because forests are not here to stop the flood flowing down from moutains. Our soil are becoming too salty to grow anything on it thanks to the hydroelectricity factories that are destroying wetlands. People are dying because of what we have done to the nature. That's not kidding. We can't just hide in the city now.

Latest news from animal rights group is that they have rescued a bear cub just 3 weeks old because his mum was killed by a hunter. Now the cub will live in the animal sanctuary for the rest of his life, no nature for him because there is no mum to teach him how to survive.

You know what, it takes years for government to make some changes and adjustments in policies, but we soon will loose all. By the time you release new rules and bans about animals rights, they might have all extincted.

 

[katmari]

Posted on twitter:

Seth MacFarlane @SethMacFarlane
When a child kills an animal for fun, we fear mental illness. When an adult with the capacity to reason does it, we call it "sport." #Cecil

I hope the public outcry over the killing of Cecil will cause a shift in attitudes throughout the world and that the "sport" of trophy hunting becomes less acceptable.

 

[Angelskates]

It was reported on CNN that the USA has an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe. If the crime is considered a crime in both countries, then the USA has to extradite its citizen. I don't know how the poaching will be treated in the USA. If our legal system does not find him guilty of poaching, he will not be extradited. I think the scumbag will get away with this but he may be more careful when he goes for his next trophy.

If this was a case of murder where he was clearly guilty he would have been extradited.

It's all my interpretation of course.

African lions are not on the US endangered species list, so I wonder if the US can/will use what the guide and the other man arrested in Zimbabwe to prove poaching. I also wonder if anything was signed by the guide (or this man) in way of saying if the guide didn't guarantee a legal kill, he would be liable. Apparently most places have this, since the guide is supposed to be the one who definitely knows the rules of the land etc. (Though I'm pretty sure everyone in this case knew what was done was illegal).

 

[Cachoo]

Seems to me you are saying that there should be less love for animals than for people, that people are more deserving of it.

So what if some people have more love for animals than people? This doesn't mean that a person conversely hates people, just that a person is more attuned to animals and more involved with them and/or their causes.

And animals need our help and protection, they are largely innocents in this world. It is we humans who are harming them and threatening their existence and welfare.

However, it's possible to love both.

I used to work with a wonderful man who was a Congolese immigrant and a very loving person. When there was a report about the endangered mountain gorilla on "60 Minutes" it made him sad. There are less than 1,000 left in the wild. But his sadness was two-fold: For the animals and for the people who still live there and are in dire straits because of war and extreme poverty. His hope was that there would be as much concern for the children there as for the animals. And he was not seeing this. I'm not sure how to respond to that because I do believe there is more concern for the animals. And a child is not to blame for the way he or she must live. My friend hated poaching but he understood why it occurred.

Just a note about his life here: When his mom was finally able to move to Atlanta to be with him she opened his closet and saw he had five pairs of shoes and burst into tears. What is mundane to us is luxury to her.

 

[Angelskates]

Wife of American dentist who is in hiding after killing Cecil the lion is a hunter too - and his office has animal heads and paw print flooring

Seems like the Zimbabwean officials already think he didn't know he was doing anything illegal...

 

[bardtoob]

For all we know, he is back in Zimbabwe bribing those that would otherwise charge him with criminal activity. I'm certain he could afford to bribe 5-10 people at $25k-$50k a piece.

... That's why I think the park and Oxford should file a civil lawsuit for damages. They could probably get enough out of him that it would actually hurt now that he has cash flow problems since his practice is closed.

 

[Angelskates]

Can a civil suit work internationally?

 

[bardtoob]

Can a civil suit work internationally?

The type of law used in this circumstances would be "International Private Law", and the jurisdiction depends on the parties involved.

It is interesting to note the GPS device was property of Oxford, which was damaged by the hunting party and the lion had special status by virtue of wearing the device, which was in agreement with Oxford and the park.

It would have been a lot easier if the scum bag had not killed a lion with a GPS device.

I hope the organization tracking the lion will not take this lying down since their intention is protect lions. I'm certain an organization associated with Oxford could find a few lawyers that are good with international law.

 

[Japanfan]

His hope was that there would be as much concern for the children there as for the animals. And he was not seeing this. I'm not sure how to respond to that because I do believe there is more concern for the animals.

I think in general there is far more concern about children than animals, though to provide evidence you'd have to count the numbers of organizations/individuals who are involved in the two causes and/or do things like adopt an animal or child from a bad situation.

Of course, plenty of charities that claim to help children keep too much of the money they receive in donations for themselves. But even so, I'd say they easily outnumber the charities that help animals. Also, there are far more governmental initiatives to help children than to help animals.

A goodly number of organizations that strive to help animals are small, under-funded and struggling.

 

[BittyBug]

Seems like the Zimbabwean officials already think he didn't know he was doing anything illegal...

Given this guy's history, I am skeptical that he was unaware. And considering his other statements quoted in the same article, I don't find him particularly credible.

'I have not been contacted by authorities in Zimbabwe or in the U.S. about this situation, but will assist them in any inquiries they may have.'

Really? From an article dated 31 June:

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wants to talk to Walter Palmer. So far, that hasn't happened.

Investigators for the service knocked on the front door of Palmer's house, stopped by his dental office, called his telephone numbers and filled his inbox with e-mails.

 

[J-Ro]

I can't begin to express how much this scumbag's actions infuriate me. I hope there are major consequences for him and those who assisted him.

Zimbabwe is calling for extradition. Apparently the US CAN extradite a person to Zimbabwe if the penalty is more than one year in prison. Poaching carries a 10-year sentence. And you know darn well that Palmer knew what he was doing. He's a coward for killing the way he did.