Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Irina Slutskaya

[bardtoob]

Euros didn't have three rounds in some years and the qualy points/marks didn't count? Somehow I remember differently

Please do tell! Were the cumulative and arithmetic?

Why don't you answer my question first?

I thought your question was rhetorical and you were signaling you knew better.

I was honestly interested in your knowledge on the subject.

 

[bardtoob]

But from 99-04, it was at all ISU Championships besides 4CC

Doesn't that mean the qualifying round was at Euros and Worlds only?

 

[WillyElliot]

377 posts about Slutskaya? I can't even fathom.

Let's be real. Her success was due to that Russian flag next to her name. Our ladies in that era,like Amber Corwin or Brittney McConn could have been just as successful with Russian politics in their favor.

-BB

Who is Brittney McConn? I mean, you could have named another more household name skater like Stacey Pensgen or something to make your point... lol

 

[tony]

Doesn't that mean the qualifying round was at Euros and Worlds only?

And World Juniors

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

and to compare her to a poor Amber....you're even more delusional than Irina!

I will take that as a compliment. Thanks dear.

And Brittney who?

Who is Brittney McConn? I mean, you could have named another more household name skater like Stacey Pensgen or something to make your point... lol

https://youtu.be/v4Nn3EOlN_0

Watch this performance and try to find anything worse than the slop Irina produced on the Champions Series,year after year. You won't find it.

Brittney McConn is the Champion of 1999 Nebelhorn Trophy,placed 7th at US Nationals 3 times,and had many underrated top 6 finishes internationally.

By the way,I'll save my Stacey Pensgen retrospective for another day.

-BB

 

[Erin]

https://youtu.be/v4Nn3EOlN_0

I was hoping this was going to be her spectacular free skate from 1999 Nationals, but sadly that one isn’t on YouTube.

I did have to laugh that much of the commentary by Dick and Peggy could have been lifted out and put into a Slutskaya performance - “Her strength is her jumps, her weakness is her posture and performance ability” “Not an unacceptable layback position” etc.

 

[bardtoob]

“Not an unacceptable layback position” etc.

There were instances where he did definitely complimented Irina's layback.

 

[TAHbKA]

Gawd, in the article Irina admits she telegraphed.

No. Her jumps were higher and rotations slower. Nothing to do with the entry into the jump

 

[bardtoob]

IS: That’s something to thank my mom. After every competition we would sit down and go through Michelle Kwan’s programmes in details. Mom would tell me stuff like: see, you beat her on a lutz, but she beat you on a spiral. Here while you are doing one jump it’s enough time for Michelle to land two.

No. Her jumps were higher and rotations slower. Nothing to do with the entry into the jump

That is certainly true, but that is not how I understood your translation because I thought she was being humorous.

 

[Tobbe]

Wow. Reading this thread a year later - I am amazed that so many people find that the Slutskaya's interview was bitter! I am European, and I usually think that Russians have a kind of harsh way of expressing themselves, but I didn't see it here. I found the interview very layed back, truthful, sincere and honest. Yes, she had some "what if's"/"judge bias" opinions, but who hasn't? She also had a lot of "I messed up so I didn't win" moments. I don't know if the people thinking it was all bitterness are Americans? If so, hmm...interesting. Because, I often think that also Americans have a very harsh way of expressing themselves. But in a very different way than Russians.

That said, I really really believe that Slutskaya was robbed at SLC. There has been arguments that she should have been first in the short program, and someone even said Butyrskaya should have been placed higher. It's not rocket science to assume that the Russians thought this was a set up for an American win after the short, like Butyrskaya suggested. But that's how it was, and I remember at the time I was kind of used to it, so I accepted it. And it seems to me that Slutskaya/Burytskaya also accepted it. But of course they will have opinions about it! We all did at the time.

But recently I saw an interview that TSL did with the American judge (I think it was last year?) - and it all came back again. And I got furious. He basically said he ignored the UR's Hughes had, and if it wasn't for him (and the fact that the Ukrainian judge was swapped for a more US friendly one), Slutskaya was the winner. I was appalled that he admitted this so casually, like he was proud of it.

 

[VGThuy]

Which is funny because I remember at the time or close to it, Butyrskaya said Kwan should have won SLC.

 

[antmanb]

Wow i'm so glad someone unearthed this thread - it has proved to be extremely entertaining during a very boring telephone conference

 

[Tobbe]

Which is funny because I remember at the time or close to it, Butyrskaya said Kwan should have won SLC.

Of course she did. That was the rivalry between Slutskaya/Butyrskaya at the time. Just recently Butyrskaya said she befriended Irina lately, but they never used to talk to each other back in the day. And we will never know what Butyrskaya really thought about her car blowing up, and Slutskaya was one of the main suspects...

 

[Tobbe]

Wow i'm so glad someone unearthed this thread - it has proved to be extremely entertaining during a very boring telephone conference

Well, I guess I am the guilty one who unearthed it. Great stuff wasn't it?

 

[VGThuy]

Of course she did. That was the rivalry between Slutskaya/Butyrskaya at the time. Just recently Butyrskaya said she befriended Irina lately, but they never used to talk to each other back in the day. And we will never know what Butyrskaya really thought about her car blowing up, and Slutskaya was one of the main suspects...

Was she really a suspect or was that just something we fans thought up? Because I always thought it was a joke.

 

[Tobbe]

Was she really a suspect or was that just something we fans thought up? Because I always thought it was a joke.

Well, Irina says so herself during this interview, doesn't she! She was taken to the police, they say she did it, and how she did it, and Irina just sat there crying.

It's funny, because this could have been such a big Russian Tonya Harding moment, but the Russian press swept it under the carpet with explanations like "someone was envious of Butyrskaya because she was successful and the world champion". I don't think the Russian press would have reacted the same way today...

And fact remains, Butyrskaya's car blew up the night BEFORE Russian Nationals short program 2000. Coincidence? Was some random guy envious just then? Hmmm...

Slutskaya had all the motives. She was crushed the year before in 1999 when she was not selected to the world team. Russian Ladies was brutal already back then. Slutskaya only came 4th at nationals and wasn't selected to Europeans and Worlds in 1999. Even though Irina was the reigning European and World silver medalist from 1998 it didn't matter. So she missed out. Irina has said she almost quit skating altogether back then.

But let's not forget the other Russian ladies. What about Julia Soldatova? She was the world bronze medalist in 1999 (should have been silver as Kwan was so overscored in the short that year). Soldatova was the one who missed out in 2000 and finished 4th at nationals. Which made her switch to Belarus, and that just ruined her career.

Maybe it all was a coincidence that the car blew up just at THAT time, when all the other Russian Ladies might benefit from it. Or not...

Slutskaya has later said that "someone wanted to get into Butyrskaya's head". That sounds like a fair assessment to me.

 

[VGThuy]

It’s been so long since I read this interview. Thanks for the reminder about her being questioned. I have to re-read it now.

Regarding Soldatova and Kwan in 1999, you should totally check out the Retrospective 1999 Worlds thread in The Trash Can. Both the SP and the LP. I think you’d find it entertaining.

 

[Tobbe]

Regarding Soldatova and Kwan in 1999, you should totally check out the Retrospective 1999 Worlds thread in The Trash Can. Both the SP and the LP. I think you’d find it entertaining.

Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out. Just two years ago, me and a friend sat down and tried scoring the 1999 ladies short. If we were (very!) kind, we couldn't place Kwan higher than 8th after the short. There were just too many skates that were better, and Kwan was terrible in the short. Michelle made up for it in the long, but with the 6.0 system she never would have medalled if she was 8th in the short.

 

[VGThuy]

Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out. Just two years ago, me and a friend sat down and tried scoring the 1999 ladies short. If we were (very!) kind, we couldn't place Kwan higher than 8th after the short. There were just too many skates that were better, and Kwan was terrible in the short. Michelle made up for it in the long, but with the 6.0 system she never would have medalled if she was 8th in the short.

I actually disagree with that after I watched the SP with the rest of FSU. I don’t remember my exact placing but I had Soldatova way lower than she was in the SP and Kwan about the same taking into account all 8 elements and overall skating skills, choreography, and skating quality. Maybe 5th.

 

[tony]

Gusmeroli was the one robbed in 1999. I know and don't care that everyone else on this board doesn't agree That's all.

 

[VGThuy]

I had Lavrenchuk in the top 4 or 5, I think. I think I had Rechnio higher than she was as well. In the SP I mean.

 

[Tobbe]

I actually disagree with that after I watched the SP with the rest of FSU. I don’t remember my exact placing but I had Soldatova way lower than she was in the SP and Kwan about the same taking into account all 8 elements and overall skating skills, choreography, and skating quality. Maybe 5th.

OK. Well, I am European, and we tend to rate Kwan lower. LOL. If I remember correctly, I think I even had Lucinda Ruh above Kwan! I will have to re-watch that year. It was a good one...for sure.

 

[Tobbe]

Gusmeroli, I can't even remember her that year! I really have to re-watch now...

 

[VGThuy]

Not all Europeans though. See Kwan in Birmingham 1995, Lausanne 1997 LP, Nice in 2000. Crowds went wild. There probably would be more examples had Kwan competed in Europe more in the second half of her career and skated like she did at Nationals usually. I don’t know if I can count Dortmund in 2004 because I think that was more about her skating well enough after that guy interrupted the competition.

Back to 1999 Worlds SP, IMO, Rechnio and Soldatova should have switched places in the SP with Gusmeroli, Kwan, and Lavrenchuk in-between them.

 

[Tobbe]

I found my 1999 SP scores! Still, I have to re-watch this to see if I think the same...

1. Butyrskaya 5.7+5.9
2. Soldatova 5.6+5.7
3. Rechnio 5.6+5.6
4. Malinina 5.6+5.5
5. Gusmeroli 5.5+5.5
6. Poth 5.4+5.5
7. Liashenko 5.4+5.3
8. Kwan 4.9+5.7 (and this is very kind both technically and artistically)
9. Ruh 5.0+5.6
10. Lavrenchuk 5.5+5.1
11. Volchkova 5.1+5.4
12. Hughes 5.2+5.0

I don't think I ever scored the long program though. All I know is that Butyrskaya was the clear winner this year, I don't think anyone argues with that.

Sorry for the off-topic

 

[Coco]

I actually disagree with that after I watched the SP with the rest of FSU. I don’t remember my exact placing but I had Soldatova way lower than she was in the SP and Kwan about the same taking into account all 8 elements and overall skating skills, choreography, and skating quality. Maybe 5th.

WHAT ARE THE ODDS??? LOL, I'm sorry...if we don't trust judges' marks given to their own countrymen/women, we can't really trust a diehard's marks to their favorites

I say this with love...

 

[VGThuy]

WHAT ARE THE ODDS??? LOL, I'm sorry...if we don't trust judges' marks given to their own countrymen/women, we can't really trust a diehard's marks to their favorites

I say this with love...

I actually think I worked hard to be objective actually as I put Rechnio who placed behind Kwan in real life ahead of her in my marks. I actually watched all those skaters back then and looked at the programs. And why wasn’t this post addressed to the other poster who thinks a presentation 5.7 given to Kwan given the other skaters was generous as was a 4.9 for technical merit and then made a post about how all Europeans ranked Kwan lower when some Euro judges actually ranked Kwan where she was or even higher than the 4th she ended up with. I mean I may like Kwan’s skating but there’s a reason for that and a reason why she won so many medals and titles. I mean feel free to take my posts about her with a grain of salt as I will do with yours. Being harsh with her isn’t any more objective per se and can be argued being two sides of the same coin if we want to go there.

 

[Tobbe]

I actually think I worked hard to be objective actually as I put Rechnio who placed behind Kwan in real life ahead of her in my marks. I actually watched all those skaters back then and looked at the programs. And why wasn’t this post addressed to the other poster who thinks a presentation 5.7 given to Kwan given the other skaters was generous as was a 4.9 for technical merit and then made a post about how all Europeans ranked Kwan lower when some Euro judges actually ranked Kwan where she was or even higher than the 4th she ended up with. I mean I may like Kwan’s skating but there’s a reason for that and a reason why she won so many medals and titles. I mean feel free to take my posts about her with a grain of salt as I will do with yours. Being harsh with her isn’t any more objective per se and can be argued being two sides of the same coin if we want to go there.

Being objective is very hard. As you are mentioning my scoring with 4.9+5.7, I was trying to be objective, but as you suspect, I would have scored her a lot lower if I was subjective. Giving Kwan 5.7 is a stretch for that program, but I did it anyway because she has this unique flow across the ice. So 5.7 was actually the second best artistic score I gave behind Butyrskaya. But that was kind, and as I said, I was trying to be objective. At the time, with all the mistakes, that kind of program shouldn't be higher than 5.5/5.6 tops for artistic. The problem I always had with Kwan was her weak technique and poor spins. And here it all really fell apart, the little technique she had just wasn't there. It was a different era of FS so it's really not comparable, but she would have been crushed with the IJS system had it been in place that year, and probably would have a 10th place or so after the short. On the other hand, the IJS system makes it possible to make up for it in the long, and even though I was not a fan of her free skate either, I think she did a great job.
We still have overscoring today with well-known skaters and World/Olympic medalists, but not as much as back in those days. Kwan got a silver medal out of this World Championship purely based on reputation imo. Someone said Gusmeroli was robbed that year, maybe so, and it seems to me that also Rechnio was robbed in the short.
In the end, what is fascinating with figure skating is that we all think so different! That is one of the things I love about this sport. Kwan is especially interesting to me as I can see a clear rift here between Americans and Europeans. I truly respected Kwan's artistry, but was she that great that Americans seem to think? There is no right or wrong here. Just different tastes. Back in those days I looooved Butyrskaya. She always drew me in, she had this prescence on the ice I have never seen since. But at the same time I remember the criticism against her, she was stiff, she looked nervous etc. I didn't care - I just loved her because she drew me in! And I really appreciated that she upped her game all the time and didn't settle for the same technical content all the time. She was pushing herself.
I'll stop now as I am rambling a bit...

Edit: Here is Kwan's short with Eurosport commentators. These guys never say something bad, they are always positive and love everyone, but I think they have a more objective way of commentating. And Chris, as a former skater knows what he's talking about. "She really could have used a 3F instead of a 3T" is one example of their highlighting the weak Kwan content. "She will be lucky to be in the top 5" is another comment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta04kTVj2DU

And for comparison, Kwan was 4th after the short, here is the top three - with Eurosport commentators.
3rd Gusmeroli - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4J0ewUqXaw
1st Butyrskaya - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkJwO3eKUNQ
2nd Soldatova - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wku9_VrG2rw

And I have to give an honorable mention to Lucinda Ruh who had a fantastic skate (and better than Kwan in my subjective opinion). Dick Button loved her and his words "Good for you Lucinda Ruh" is a classic. But here is what the Eurosport guys thought.

Lucinda Ruh SUI - 1999 World Championships SP

QA : 9th, SP : 12th, LP : 12th, 13th place March 20th-28th, Helsinki, FIN

www.youtube.com

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

I would have marked it: 1.Bute 2.Soldatova 3.Rechnio 4. Gusmeroli 5. Malinina and 6.Kwan

 

[Tobbe]

Yay we almost think alike!