Annonymously Mailing Religious Pamphlets To An Atheist - Thoughts?

[manhn]

If I got an anonymous invitation to meet up at a park, I'd freak.

 

[Angelskates]

I was kind of about your earlier comment. I'm sure I never said I was offended about anything. Just creeped out. More creeped out than I would have otherwise considering I had ants crawling all over my just minutes before opening that letter.

As for this question, if a flyer went out to everyone on a sheet of paper, that would be weird (the examples you gave), but would have unsettled me rather than freaked me out. If those things you mention were put inside an enveloped which had my name and address plus no return address...and I was the only one in the building who got one, that would freak me out to a certain extent. Not as much as what I received as an invitation to an event at least has a bit of warmth to it. Random pamphlets which are not specifically associated with a local church and one of their events is...freaky.

Hmm, sorry if I made a mistake and you weren't offended. I guess I don't see what is so freaky about it. Different strokes and all that.

Do you have any idea who sent you the mail, or are you going to try and find out?

@Vagabond I don't think anyone is saying PeterG doesn't have a right to his feelings Some, like me, are saying we don't understand them, or think we would feel (or have felt) differently in a similar situation, but that is not the same as saying PeterG doesn't have a right to his feelings. How does one take away or give rights for feelings? No one is saying PeterG doesn't have the right to express his feelings, either. But like he said, he asked for comment, and FSU is a discussion board, so we are commenting and discussing.

 

[PeterG]

Do you have any idea who sent you the mail, or are you going to try and find out?

I think it might have been one of the two ladies in my building that I am on strata council with. I think of the two, it's most likely my next-door neighbour, who I quite like, actually. She has talked about church, but I would not describe her as a bible-thumper. The last time we talked, she was actually bothered by the people of a church she went to that was close to us, so easier for her to get to. She said they were not at all very friendly and couldn't imagine going back. Who knows, if it was her, maybe because I listened patiently to her church stories, she thought I'd like some literature. But if it was her, not sure why she used Canada Post when we live right next door to each other. Who knows.

As for finding out who sent it, I'm just going to let the matter drop. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more bothered about the ants thing than the pamphlets thing. And since the ant thing, I've showered twice and have washed all the clothing I wore yesterday. So I'm clean and unburdened.

 

[Angelskates]

If I got an anonymous invitation to meet up at a park, I'd freak.

But this is not totally anonymous - the church is the organiser. If a community group invited you to community event, would you freak? Why would you freak rather than just throw it in the bin? I think it's a little weird that the actual sender didn't send a note (because I think it's ineffective as a converting strategy) but I wouldn't freak, I'd just chuck it out.

I met one of my closest friends when we were both out running separately, and she handed me a piece of paper. We both kept running on (in separate directions) and when I got home, I saw that it was a note saying she was new to the neighbourhood, and that she liked running and wanted to meet other runners in the area. It didn't include a phone number, only a name, which I did think was weird, but included a time and place to meet and run and then have a picnic. I went, by myself. So did about 20 other people, and we're all good friends now. It was a little creative, but I didn't find it freaky, and I don't consider myself a very trusting person. I figured it was a public place, and I also wanted to meet people in the neighbourhood, so I went.

 

[Angelskates]

I think it might have been one of the two ladies in my building that I am on strata council with. I think of the two, it's most likely my next-door neighbour, who I quite like, actually. She has talked about church, but I would not describe her as a bible-thumper. The last time we talked, she was actually bothered by the people of a church she went to that was close to us, so easier for her to get to. She said they were not at all very friendly and couldn't imagine going back. Who knows, if it was her, maybe because I listened patiently to her church stories, she thought I'd like some literature. But if it was her, not sure why she used Canada Post when we live right next door to each other. Who knows.

As for finding out who sent it, I'm just going to let the matter drop. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more bothered about the ants thing than the pamphlets thing. And since the ant thing, I've showered twice and have washed all the clothing I wore yesterday. So I'm clean and unburdened.

It does seem kind of odd if it's your next-door neighbour but maybe she felt it less confrontational for you that an actual invite? Who knows.

What kind of ants would require that kind of washing? Were you itchy? I've never had ants crawl all over me (touch wood), did they bite you or was it just the creepy crawly-ness that was annoying? Are they usually hard to get rid of?

 

[DAngel]

It was a little creative, but I didn't find it freaky, and I don't consider myself a very trusting person. I figured it was a public place, and I also wanted to meet people in the neighbourhood, so I went.

But she gave it to you in person.

If you had received the piece of paper in your mailbox anonymously, in an envelope with your name and full address hand-written on it, would you feel the same?

 

[Aussie Willy]

I think it might have been one of the two ladies in my building that I am on strata council with. I think of the two, it's most likely my next-door neighbour, who I quite like, actually. She has talked about church, but I would not describe her as a bible-thumper. The last time we talked, she was actually bothered by the people of a church she went to that was close to us, so easier for her to get to. She said they were not at all very friendly and couldn't imagine going back. Who knows, if it was her, maybe because I listened patiently to her church stories, she thought I'd like some literature. But if it was her, not sure why she used Canada Post when we live right next door to each other. Who knows.

Well that could be it. I think if you had a neighbour that was hassling you about it and interfering in your life (like I had years ago at a place I lived in) then you would have every right to be angry.

As for finding out who sent it, I'm just going to let the matter drop. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more bothered about the ants thing than the pamphlets thing. And since the ant thing, I've showered twice and have washed all the clothing I wore yesterday. So I'm clean and unburdened.

Ants are horrible. I get them as well. I have to put the cat food at my front door entrance rather than my kitchen because that is where I get ants.

On the other hand there is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtaWJ6OHr4

 

[Angelskates]

But she gave it to you in person.

If you had received the piece of paper in your mailbox anonymously, in an envelope with your name and full address hand-written on it, would you feel the same?

Yep. I wouldn't be freaked, annoyed, creeped, or anything like that. No one was forcing me to go. If I wanted to, I would, and if I didn't, I wouldn't. I think it's way weirder to give something like that in person, and would much prefer it mailed, actually, because I don't like confrontation. In my case, though, we didn't stop and talk, she had it to me as I ran past her. Usually I wouldn't have even read it, I would have thought it was junk, but for some reason, I did this time, and am glad. But either way, I wouldn't be annoyed. I wasn't being invited to a dark alley with a threat of something bad happening to me or someone I know if I didn't go, I was being invited to a public place to meet people, and I could chose to go or not. I highly doubt my friend kept tabs on who she gave to and who she didn't - she gave it to people out running over several days I think (we all live in the same area). She could track me down easily, because I run the same routes at the same time; and I found out later, she actually knew where I lived (and work, since it's the same place). Didn't and doesn't creep me out at all. Though I did think it was a bit weird that she didn't put a phone number, and just expected people to show - 20 or so people, including me, did show...and she only gave out 30 so that's pretty good.

 

[DAngel]

Yep. I wouldn't be freaked, annoyed, creeped, or anything like that. No one was forcing me to go. If I wanted to, I would, and if I didn't, I wouldn't. I think it's way weirder to give something like that in person, and would much prefer it mailed, actually, because I don't like confrontation.

Er... A stranger who took the extra step to find your full name and your full address, giving you a paper that says they want to be friends with you? It'd freak me out so much, I might go to the police, especially if I'm the only one in my building to receive it. I guess I'm with Manhn here.

Someone giving you flyers as you walk by is pretty common though...

 

[Angelskates]

Er... A stranger who took the extra step to find your full name and your full address, giving you a paper that says they want to be friends with you? It'd freak me out so much, I might go to the police, especially if I'm the only one in my building to receive it. I guess I'm with Manhn here.

Someone giving you flyers as you walk by is pretty common though...

But Peter's didn't say that. It was general, rather than specific information, not targeted to anything specific like an event. It's nothing threatening, why would you go to the police? Plenty of strangers have my full name and address, both government (two countries), organisations, and individual random people. If it was something threatening, it would creep me out. Some random church fliers, they'd go straight in the bin without another thought, hand addressed or not.

 

[Scrufflet]

Hey Peter, if you ever do find out who sent you that stuff, send him or her this article back. They probably won't understand it, I got lost at the algorithms, but as a way of pointing out that the Bible was a series of human documents, it's pretty good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/12/w...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

And copy all the pages of this thread and give them to him/her!

 

[Meredith]

Nope. I get along with the staff really well there, so I thought I'd show her my "gift" and see what she thought. Glad her response gave me a chuckle. .

I'm glad you got that chuckle, PeterG. It sounded like you had a bad day on several fronts and you were mightily in need of a hug.

 

[Twilight1]

Give the old bag a break. She means well. She wants him to go to heaven.

If heaven exists.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

We have received lots of junk mail that was handwritten and looks like it was from a friend. One even had a handwritten letter that made my husband so angry. It was from a woman and talk about male performance and a secret she recommended - some mail order pills for enhancement. But looking online others posted the same letter and it is just a clever marketing scheme. I am thinking you got on someone's mailing list. Maybe you made a public donation? For example, my aunt gave $50 to a local political campaign and ended up on mailing lists for things she had no political leaning that should have come with a warning before opening from the national party. For my husband, I think it was about the time he got a free subscription to Maxim.

 

[gkelly]

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more bothered about the ants thing than the pamphlets thing. And since the ant thing, I've showered twice and have washed all the clothing I wore yesterday. So I'm clean and unburdened.

What kind of ants would require that kind of washing? Were you itchy? I've never had ants crawl all over me (touch wood), did they bite you or was it just the creepy crawly-ness that was annoying? Are they usually hard to get rid of?

This reminds me of the day I took 3 showers:

I was running the theatre program at a summer camp and living in a cabin with the couple who ran the waterfront program, but not with any of the kids.

One day I showered in the morning, and in the afternoon or early evening because it had been a hot sticky day. When I went to bed before I fell asleep I felt as though there were ants crawling on my skin. That could be a phenomenon called formication, but in this case the feeling was strong and persistent so I got out of bed and turned on the light. Indeed, there were about a dozen ants crawling on my arms and on the sheet, and at least a hundred swarming from crack in the wall. So I pulled the bed away from the wall and brushed the ants off the sheets -- and then I went and took another shower to get the creepy feeling of the ants crawling off my skin.

It was a Jewish camp and they did force me to attend services and keep kosher on campus, but they didn't care what I personally believed.

 

[ballettmaus]

It surprises me that many in this thread see this mail as trying to force religion on Peter. It's a piece of paper. There is nothing threatening on it. It can be thrown in the bin without anything bad happening. I see this as an ineffective way of spreading the Word just because it can be so easily thrown in the bin and forgotten.

I think it might because of experience? I have, for example, never come across anyone who simply wants to make religion enticing. When they talk to you on the street their intention isn't to make their religion enticing but convince you that what you believe in is wrong. When someone wants to talk to you about religion, it's rarely "innocent" and merely an introduction/information.

 

[Nomad]

...
Anyway, @Nomad, I'm sorry your mother poisoned the Old Testament for you. Someday read the prophets for their universal sense of justice, Ecclesiastes for his proto-existentialism and Psalms and Song of Songs for the beautiful poetry. There's a lot more there than the vengeful stuff she chose to quote.

Thank you. I know there is more to the Old Testament than my mother quotes and I get that she was raised in an intolerant, oppressive, and often violent time/place. It's unfortunate that this is her "comfort zone" but nothing is going to change that. She has gotten a bit better lately; after my father's death in 2014 she started to get the message that her obnoxious Bible-thumping meant that none of her children would be inclined to call, write, or visit her. I'm sure she still hangs on to her sadly warped beliefs, but she's a lot less vocal about them.

 

[maatTheViking]

Not to be an SG1 geek or anything, but you were pretty close - Osiris was a goa'uld, Prometheus was space ship.

Back on-topic , I always wondered (but knew the answer) why the SG1 writers never made Jesus a goa'uld, Ancient, Ori or Asgard. Every other god and wizard seemed to be one.

I'm pretty sure your know why. (and yes, I realize that there are people who have revived belief in the Norse pantheon, but the number of Asatru members worldwide is quite small)

 

[dots]

Just wondering if people had thoughts on this. I'm not really vocal about being an atheist, or gay for that matter. But if the subject comes up, I will be honest. I just find this anonymous mail to be both weird and rather upsetting.

ETA: Here's a photo of the mail:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter5rocks5/25755656733/

It's because you're gay Peter. No, actually, it's probably some nosy neighbor that thought you would need it. I really hate when people leave religious stuff on my mailbox. I do admit having some fun when a nice protestant or Mormon guy shows up at my door.

 

[DAngel]

But Peter's didn't say that. It was general, rather than specific information, not targeted to anything specific like an event.

I wasn't talking about Peter's case. I was responding to the hypothetical situation where your now-friend had given you the invitation in an envelope with your name and address on it and put it in your mailbox. You said you wouldn't have found it creepy, I was just explaining that I would find that creepy.

I guess the idea that random strangers can easily find out where I live is rather unsettling.

 

[skatingfan5]

@PeterG I just now clicked on your link that showed the pamphlets you received and "Behold the Bridegroom is Coming" reminded me of this rather catchy tune -- I don't think that you have to be a "believer" to enjoy it. I like a lot of traditional gospel music, as well, even though I'm not a follower of any Christian creed.

 

[kosjenka]

Well @PeterG I got pamphlets mailed to me today from Austria. I can see the organizations name on the material, but nothing on the envelope. Its Jehovah Witnesses. I know exactly where they got my address, I collaborated on a work related project with a Jehovah Witness funded organization and a woman there tried to get friendly and would not stop talking about "finding my way". I am 99% sure this is her. I am writing the organization atm that they immediately stop mailing me stuff and remove me from their data base. European Union has laws against these types of harassment. I need to ask a friend, she is a self proclaimed professional atheist and does not tolerate bullshit like this.
Its super creepy.
And today I removed Catholic annual stickers from my kitchen door. Fellow catholics maybe know you get those once a year when priest comes to bless the home. Previous tenant was a big Catholic.

 

[PeterG]

@PeterG I just now clicked on your link that showed the pamphlets you received and "Behold the Bridegroom is Coming" reminded me of this rather catchy tune -- I don't think that you have to be a "believer" to enjoy it. I like a lot of traditional gospel music, as well, even though I'm not a follower of any Christian creed.

I wondered about that bridegroom one. I should read it to see if it's my bridegroom, which means I will soon marry. If I'm reading things right, I wonder if the pamphlet will tell me who my spouse will be?

 

[once_upon]

But because it is not "personal" it is even worst! One thing is when your friend is telling you "change something in your life" and another thing is when a stranger does it...

Look at it this way: a group of people, who do not know you, never met you, to whom you do not present any physical or financial danger nor threaten them in any shape or form, WANT to influence your way of living not only “in public” but “in private”, to go inside your life and inside your head and change it for no practical purpose or any direct consequence to them!!! ???
.

First, I will agree with you, the unsolicited mail that Peter received is certainly invasion of privacy and done with the intent to change or save his soul. That's wrong in my book - even as a Christian whose basic directive is to go and make disciplines.

But let me ask you about something that I feel is a big intrusion on my beliefs and actions. I happen to eat meat, fish, poultry and cheeses, etc. As well as products produced on large agricultural farms. And products containg gluten. I get literature, emails, links some traceable to particular people I know, much not but I suspect who might have been part of the loop warning that I am part of the evil ways.

Someone (s) are trying to tell me my body is in mortal danger and I need to repent of my ways. I find it offensive and in some cases (ie gulten free stuff) creepy when people want to discuss the condition of my bowels.

I just let the shit go.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Peter wasn't being forced to do anything, he wasn't even forced to open the envelope, let alone read it, and keep it.

It surprises me that many in this thread see this mail as trying to force religion on Peter. It's a piece of paper. There is nothing threatening on it. It can be thrown in the bin without anything bad happening. I see this as an ineffective way of spreading the Word just because it can be so easily thrown in the bin and forgotten.

What's "threatening" is the fact that some unknown (to the recipient) person, or a group, is concerned with how a complete stranger lives and thinks about the world, and want to make him/her live and think like they do, for strictly ideological and not practical reasons. This person, or a group, located probably in a significant geographical distance from the recipient, far enough that the daily routine and life of the recipient do not affect them directly, are making all this effort to go inside recipient's head and life in order to change it. If they were just "thinking" how nice it would be for all to believe as they believe then that's would be ok, but they are ACTING upon their wishes by entering ONE'S PRIVATE TERRITORY.

But let me ask you about something that I feel is a big intrusion on my beliefs and actions. I happen to eat meat, fish, poultry and cheeses, etc. As well as products produced on large agricultural farms. And products containg gluten. I get literature, emails, links some traceable to particular people I know, much not but I suspect who might have been part of the loop warning that I am part of the evil ways.


Someone (s) are trying to tell me my body is in mortal danger and I need to repent of my ways. I find it offensive and in some cases (ie gulten free stuff) creepy when people want to discuss the condition of my bowels. I just let the shit go.

I did not see a specific question, but let me try to comment based on what you stated. I already said in my earlier posts that I think there are better methods of distributing commercial, political and ideological literature. Sending it to one’s home without recipient’s prior approval or request is invasive.


Your consumption of gluten is your business, and nobody should be sending you private information on how to handle your bowls, you’re right. If there are private research results, they can be distributed by other “more public” sources, where one has a choice to access this information or not. I will make exception for distribution of such information or official public alerts from Government about infections, contamination, or dangerous products, etc.

What I see in your information, however, is that you eat flesh of living creatures. That would be my concern, and my wish that people stop doing it. But I would not send you or others brochures into your private mail box, or ran up to someone and start lecturing about evils of eating other living beings.

Also, activities to protect other living creatures have somewhat different tone than activities which trying to change someone’s life in aspects which do not physically affect other living creatures.

I do support however organizations who properly distribute information about protection of animals, public TV messages, legislative measures, awareness events, etc. I used to support PETA, but stopped because their tactics became ridiculous and intrusive.

Back to your subject. You’re right – it is offensive and creepy if people are concerned with your “bowels”.

The only possible situation in which I would consider it being “less creepy” is if in a small secluded community, a person, unemployed and unproductive, consumed something VERY dangerous to his/her health, and local residents said to him/her “you’re about to become an invalid, you have no money, we will have to pay to take care of you, so either stop destroying yourself, or move to another location, or sign a disclaimer that you will not use our local hospital for which we are paying and you’re not”. In other words, if you are doing something self-destructive which will cost not you but others money, they have a right to stop you.

 

[sk8pics]

I guess the idea that random strangers can easily find out where I live is rather unsettling.

This has been true for many years, ever since the first telephone directory came out. Not as easy as now, but possible.

For me, I just throw out junk mail of any kind. I don't consider it harassment, because it really doesn't interfere with anything, and I don't have to do anything with it or about it.

What is sometimes harassment to me are the repeated telephone calls. But junk mail? No.

 

[Andrushka]

I'm sorry you feel bad about it.Myself,I am a Christian.If I receive pamphlets from a denomination I don't agree with or whatever,I just throw it away. I honestly don't give the literature any thought.

 

[Jayar]

@PeterG -- My HS class gave me a Bible at graduation. Lots of classmates signed it, and said things like 'We pray for your soul'. I burned it. Do the same. It was cathartic.

 

[PeterG]

I'm sorry you feel bad about it.Myself,I am a Christian.If I receive pamphlets from a denomination I don't agree with or whatever,I just throw it away. I honestly don't give the literature any thought.

The literature is not the issue. If someone got into the building and stuck the pamphlets anonymously into each and every mailbox, that's creepy, but not uber-creepy. What makes something uber-creepy is to:

1. Stuff the pamphlets into an envelope with no note or explanation as to why it is being sent
2. The item being addressed to one specific personal in particular...and not including a return address
3. The literature being mailed to one specific person and not everyone else in the building

@PeterG -- My HS class gave me a Bible at graduation. Lots of classmates signed it, and said things like 'We pray for your soul'. I burned it. Do the same. It was cathartic.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Peter... I don't know why this is such a big deal. . I get stuff like that all the time. . Addressed to me. Looks like handwriting. . I get it at home. . I get it at the office. . I just throw it out.
I am a conservative Jew in California with a Spanish last name. There is not even a category . . People have judgments. . So?