Worlds, 4CC, Jr Worlds camp selections

Tavi

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I don't. Plenty of other US men have competed and gone to school at the same time. None of them asked for favours.

Going to Brown was Vincent's choice. It wasn't like he got injured or something happened out of his control. He made a decision, it didn't work, he deals with the consequences.
Remember 2017 when Jason was sent over Vincent? My guess is Vincent’s being sent now over Tomoki for similar reasons.
 

VGThuy

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Vincent is being named on the team because he barely lost to Tomoki, had a base value close to him and that’s with 3 weeks of training, and has in the past shown he can turn it around and perform well...some times well enough for a World medal with a high TES. If Vincent imploded and placed lower, I bet he would not have been named on the team.

Also, saying Vincent is asking for favors is like the least generous reading of Vincent since he doesn’t control who the USFS names on the team as is dismissing the difficulties he’s had this season. And even with all that he barely missed third and pulled off a quad in the SP and the LP when he said he couldn’t do a triple axel consistently a week before.

Even Max Aaron was named over Jason for 2014 Worlds. Was that Max asking for a favor too?
 

jlai

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Max was also named to the 3rd alternate in 2018 despite placing quite low, but he proved to be an asset as he helped save the 3rd spot. I do agree that skaters with a good international record should be taken into account in cases like this.
That said, I would have been fine with them sending Tomoki too, for the purpose of developing depth. It will be even less likely for USFS to try a newbie at worlds next year.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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My apologies, favours was the wrong word.

But again, the handwaving continues. Vincent has barely skated at all this season. By his own choice. This is not a case where he got injured or some other out-of-his-control event happened to make him miss the season. Vincent chose not to compete. He has no form guide, nothing, just overinflated Nationals PCS. Tomoki has skated this season.

Vincent was the World bronze medallist last year. He has almost no record this season. This is the problem I have. You should not be able to just go "well I'm skipping GP but will pull a couple of good skates out at Nationals and just waltz onto the team"! That is not the message that the USFS should be sending, but it exactly is.

2017 was different because Olympic spots were on the line and Vincent had never completed a Senior international before. The USFS (correctly) chose Jason because they recognised a veteran was needed for that Worlds. The need for a veteran on the team was also painfully obvious the next year, too. However, this year, there are no Olympic spots on the line, and the other two members of the team are seasoned veterans. This is pretty well the safest possible year to put someone like Tomoki on the team. To back him.

I'm not going to bother with the obvious jabs except to once again ask the question: which assignment do you think Max would rather have had in 2014?
 

meggonzo

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I'm not going to bother with the obvious jabs except to once again ask the question: which assignment do you think Max would rather have had in 2014?
He could have had neither and that would have been fair. Seems USFS did him a favor since he was the national champion the previous season.
 

kwanfan1818

I <3 Kozuka
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32,220
There was an interview with Kori Ade (in the Olympic season)where she said she had discussions with USFS, who wanted Brown to stay in Juniors that year. She had to assure them that she/Brown didn't expect a Worlds assignment, because there were spots on the line.
 

Vagabond

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Was simply pointing out another example of skaters named to the World team over a team that finished higher.
I know you were.

There are, however, consequences to deviating from Nationals results. These can include fostering a sense of entitlement among those for whom others are bypassed.
 

kwanette

Fetalized since 1998
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I know you were.

There are, however, consequences to deviating from Nationals results. These can include fostering a sense of entitlement among those for whom others are bypassed.
I never felt that way about Max..I always found him to be the ultimate team player, never more so than when he went to 2018 Worlds when two? others, Jason and Ross? declined and he got the job done. He did the same thing at 2014 Worlds.
 

MacMadame

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Vincent was the World bronze medallist last year. He has almost no record this season. This is the problem I have. You should not be able to just go "well I'm skipping GP but will pull a couple of good skates out at Nationals and just waltz onto the team"! That is not the message that the USFS should be sending, but it exactly is.
It's not the message they are sending at all.

First of all, he didn't just "waltz" onto the team. He worked incredibly hard to get back into proper form after having to make a tough decision and having to give up his dream to pursue an education while still skating. He did this with no guarantee or expectations that it would lead to being named to anything.

Secondly, elite skaters skip the GP series all the time and sometimes for more trivial reasons than having a difficult situation with limited ice time. It's not a requirement to do the GP in order to be sent to Worlds. It never has been and it's certainly not this year.

Third, the rules say that BOW takes into account this year AND last year. It's not just this year and that's on purpose. It's so you don't leave really good skaters off the team when they've had a hard time in the Fall but show they are in good form at Nationals. Going on and on about how Vincent doesn't have results this year doesn't change the rules.
 

PRlady

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Jackie tweeted the Junior Worlds selections a few minutes ago, I guess they should go here:

L Starr Andrews, Alysa Liu, Lindsay Thorngren
M Ilia Malinin, Maxim Naumov, Andrew Torgashev
D Brown/Brown, Nguyen/Kolesnik, Wolfkostin/Chen
P Deardorff/Johnson, Finster/Nagy, Smirnova/Siianytsia

No surprises, I guess.
 

toddlj

Not "social distancing" just "physical distancing"
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Jackie tweeted the Junior Worlds selections a few minutes ago, I guess they should go here:

L Starr Andrews, Alysa Liu, Lindsay Thorngren
M Ilia Malinin, Maxim Naumov, Andrew Torgashev
D Brown/Brown, Nguyen/Kolesnik, Wolfkostin/Chen
P Deardorff/Johnson, Finster/Nagy, Smirnova/Siianytsia

No surprises, I guess.
I guess Malinin is a tiny bit of a surprise considering he WD from Nationals. Must be on the mend!
Also, Audrey Shin listed as 1st alternate, on the basis of how well she performed at youth olympics, despite not qualifying for Nats.
I agree with these choices, but I suppose they might be considered surprises.
 

CaliSteve

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821
I don't. Plenty of other US men have competed and gone to school at the same time. None of them asked for favours.

Going to Brown was Vincent's choice. It wasn't like he got injured or something happened out of his control. He made a decision, it didn't work, he deals with the consequences.
Vince has a higher scoring potential. I think the bottom line with the USFSA Selection Committee is who is going to do best at Worlds.
 
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CaliSteve

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When you haven't competed for most of the season, there are far fewer data points available.
The body of work, not just this season and the scoring potential. Also, Vince lost by a few points with only one quad and a few mistakes.
 

CaliSteve

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821
They should have at least waited to see how these pairs skate at 4CC. It is a travesty to send C&L over the two pairs who finished ahead of them. This could come back to bite them. It must be demoralizing to C&J to skate so well and still not get selected for worlds.

Sending Zhou is understandable though it would have been ok to send Hiwatashi, IMO. I don’t see this as a travesty. May be the USFS was not sure that Brown would skate well (he did have a meltdown in the LP in one of his GPs), so they felt more comfortable with Zhou as insurance?
I was told the USFSA cant do that (for some reason.) 4CC is also so close to Worlds.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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I think even just the loss of the one week between Canadian Nationals and US Nationals leads usfsa to fairly believe that the results at four continents might not be indicative of much when it comes to US skaters.

And shout out to Max Aaron for his vital, stellar performance at the 2018 worlds. They seriously need to name some kind of award after him for that effort. They wouldn't need to give it out every year, but maybe when an alternate really steps up and has a season's best.
 

AYS

I'd rather have a pug for my president
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Vince has a higher scoring potential. I think the bottom line with the USFSA Selection Committee is who is going to do best at Worlds.
The results in the sp at 4CCs today are pretty much consistent with that. Hiwatashi had an excellent skate with a clean quad and is in 8th. Although it was an unusually well skated competition, I thought.
 

VGThuy

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31,322
The results in the sp at 4CCs today are pretty much consistent with that. Hiwatashi had an excellent skate with a clean quad and is in 8th. Although it was an unusually well skated competition, I thought.
I think the USFS is hoping Vincent will get some of his quads back so he can do multiple quads in the LP and maybe SP. Vincent has a history of placing lower in the SP when all things were equal and then pulling himself up in the LP due to multiple quads. That's what happened when he won Junior Worlds right? It also happened at the Olympics. The exception was 2019 Worlds where he placed high in the SP there putting him in excellent position to medal for the LP...also 2018 Worlds SP (where he did the inverse in the LP) now that I remember correctly.
 

Dobre

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6,700
I think the USFS is hoping Vincent will get some of his quads back so he can do multiple quads in the LP and maybe SP. Vincent has a history of placing lower in the SP when all things were equal and then pulling himself up in the LP due to multiple quads. That's what happened when he won Junior Worlds right? It also happened at the Olympics. The exception was 2019 Worlds where he placed high in the SP there putting him in excellent position to medal for the LP...also 2018 Worlds SP (where he did the inverse in the LP) now that I remember correctly.
He finished higher in the SP at last year's 4 Continents. And this season at the U.S. Classic and U.S. Nationals.
 

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