Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,246
I guess, chocolate chip cookies weren't the right way to go?

In all seriousness, I never knew how anyone could come back with a not guilty verdict after seeing that video and hearing testimony that bystanders weren't allowed to help. I had hoped for this outcome, I had hoped for it even more after the jury came back so quickly but I did not expect it and I teared up with relief when the first guilty verdict was read. This is how those cases should always end.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,141
I saw bags under his eyes, but I did not see eyes darting. I don't think he was in disbelief. He put his hands behind his back for cuffing several minutes before he was instructed to.
The camera was zoomed in on his face. I think the media was looking for his reaction, too.

He actually had his hands behind his back when he stood for the jury to enter also.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
20,638
Of 3 counts -

Count 1
The second-degree unintentional murder charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death “without intent” while committing or attempting to commit felony third-degree assault. In turn, third-degree assault is defined as the intentional infliction of substantial bodily harm.
GUILTY


count 2
The third-degree murder charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death by “perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.”
GUILTY


Count 3
The second-degree manslaughter charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death by “culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm.”
GUILTY
Thankyou, stealing this breakdown for the inevitable argument I am going to have with my racist father at some point in the next few days. He was quite convinced that they could not convict on murder because of the inability to prove intent and premeditation and would not listen to my suggestion that because the Americans have so many strange and different degrees of murder it was still possible.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,141
I guess, chocolate chip cookies weren't the right way to go?

In all seriousness, I never knew how anyone could come back with a not guilty verdict after seeing that video and hearing testimony that bystanders weren't allowed to help. I had hoped for this outcome, I had hoped for it even more after the jury came back so quickly but I did not expect it and I teared up with relief when the first guilty verdict was read. This is how those cases should always end.
Yes, I'm not necessarily surprised he was guilty. Helen Keller could have figured that out. I was surprised that he was guilty of all 3 counts. I knew it was a possibility, but I didn't expect it.

I am happy for George Floyd's family so that they have closure. And I hope that George himself can rest in peace. But this is just the beginning. There have been too many cases before this one. And there are several that have to be resolved. Rodney King was 30 years ago. It took way too long to get here. But this is proof that there can be change.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,246
Yes, I'm not necessarily surprised he was guilty. Helen Keller could have figured that out. I was surprised that he was guilty of all 3 counts. I knew it was a possibility, but I didn't expect it.
I was fairly certain the jury would find him guilty on 2nd degree manslaughter. The rest, I wasn't sure about but I also found that the media kept expectations low in the way they reported.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,767
Thankyou, stealing this breakdown for the inevitable argument I am going to have with my racist father at some point in the next few days. He was quite convinced that they could not convict on murder because of the inability to prove intent and premeditation and would not listen to my suggestion that because the Americans have so many strange and different degrees of murder it was still possible.
Well intent and premeditation would have been first degree so that’s a moot point. I feel for you though .. hard dealing with family members like that.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
Messages
20,638
Well intent and premeditation would have been first degree so that’s a moot point. I feel for you though .. hard dealing with family members like that.
Yes, but in Australia, there are no degrees. Murder involves intent and premeditation, so you cannot convict without either. Chauvin would likely be found guilty of manslaughter here. My father was convinced that because the prosecution went with murder charges Chauvin would get off - he did not understand (or was willfully choosing not to understand) the different degrees in murder that exist in the US.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,767
Yes, but in Australia, there are no degrees. Murder involves intent and premeditation, so you cannot convict without either. Chauvin would likely be found guilty of manslaughter here. My father was convinced that because the prosecution went with murder charges Chauvin would get off - he did not understand (or was willfully choosing not to understand) the different degrees in murder that exist in the US.
Ah interesting. Although murder can happen spontaneously eg., like a fight and the other guy dies .. vs someone planning a murder of his wife. We don’t have third degree murder in Canada either.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
41,018
I thought I heard them say he could get up to 40 years?
That is the theoretical maximum. But in Minnesota, the judge can't just impose what he wants. There are rules he has to follow and those rules say 12.5 years unless he can add on for some things that the news was vague about but the article posted above goes into.

And, he can't do the sentences consecutively because he can only be convicted on one of the charges.

I saw bags under his eyes, but I did not see eyes darting.
Well, I did. It was creeping me out. And not what I was expecting at all.

Yes, I'm not necessarily surprised he was guilty. Helen Keller could have figured that out. I was surprised that he was guilty of all 3 counts. I knew it was a possibility, but I didn't expect it.
I figured they'd find him guilty of manslaughter, for sure, and maybe 3rd degree murder. But 2nd degree, I was less confident on. And I was totally prepared for a hung jury.

We don’t have third degree murder in Canada either.
I don't think it's normal. This is the first I've heard of it and I was reading earlier that Minnesota's definitions are different than in a lot of other states.
 

Lacey

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,662
I am still not sure it has been yet decided if Chauvin's 3 sentences will run concurrently or consequently.

It was stated today that the judge will be asked to decide whether there are aggravating factors, including that the death occurred in front of a child--apparently, that's the law.

There was a young girl, perhaps a teenager, who was asked by the prosecution to testify live in the trial that the ambulance driver yelled at Chauvin to let go of Floyd when he arrived, and she agreed in court that he should have already done that. Therefore, this is a possible way Chauvin's sentence can be increased. Very smart of the prosecution to have her statement on the record.
 
Last edited:

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,861
They cannot add the convictions together for additional time because the charges are all in reference to the same victim and death. The article posted above also indicates generally prisoners serve 2/3 of the actual time sentenced.
 
Last edited:

meggonzo

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,360
That is the theoretical maximum. But in Minnesota, the judge can't just impose what he wants. There are rules he has to follow and those rules say 12.5 years unless he can add on for some things that the news was vague about but the article posted above goes into.
Yes, I read that article already since I was the one that posted it.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,861
Dear God

They showed the police bodycam footage to the press. From The Columbus Dispatch:
In an unprecedented move, Columbus police showed body camera footage of the shooting of a 16-year-old girl by a Columbus police officer just hours after the incident.

The video shows an officer approaching a driveway with a group of young people standing there. In the video, it appears that the 16-year-old, identified now as Ma’Khia Bryant, who was moments later shot by police, pushes or swings at a person who falls to the ground.

Bryant then appears to swing a knife at a girl who is on the hood of a car, and the officer fires his weapon what sounds like four times, striking the girl.

Columbus police stressed that the Bureau of Criminal Investigation is leading the investigation into the case, but the city wanted to release the body camera to give the public more information.
 

ErikWilliam

Well-Known Member
Messages
504
I was reading an article from the HuffPost. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/derek-chauvin-guilty-george-floyd_n_60799545e4b0bc5a3a561efb

One paragraph stated some things I didn't know: "Testimony from his loved ones helped to illustrate the way Floyd’s life and struggles mirrored those faced by many Americans. Floyd, 46, had been grappling with addiction for years after initially receiving an opioid prescription for pain. He had recently lost his job due to the ******** *********, and had tested positive for the ***** in early April. He was still grieving for his deceased mother."

I live in the same neighborhood that Floyd grew up in. I found an article about my neighborhood and it is/was the most unsafe area in Houston. It was ranked #15 nationwide! The schools are down near the worst in Houston. Poverty is rampant. Floyd didn't have a great start in life. I know we can all say "Well, he could have pulled himself up by the bootstraps" but as the last four years have shown, racism is a huge problem in this country. And now after Trump these people feel emboldened to be open about it. I'm gay, and have experienced discrimination in the workplace, and it sucks. Imagine how much worse it is for a black person? And then being poor and poorly educated? And to be physically afraid for their LIVES whenever they are pulled over? I don't have those problems to worry about. I hope this verdict will start a trend of calling out racist cops and have them be held accountable for their deplorable actions.
 

ErikWilliam

Well-Known Member
Messages
504
I wanted to post President Biden's words after the verdict. I admit that I teared up. It is just so calming and reassuring that we have a compassionate President with character and integrity. I don't even want to imagine what Trump would have said today if he were still president. Rest assured, it would not be calming and would just fan the flames of chaos and division. Biden is who this country needs right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SVggwO75U
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,861
There is not enough available info about the shooting of the 15 year old girl yet, but there are many reasons to be fearful of Cols. police. Two other police shootings have been in the news regularly since Dec:

** Casey Goodson - Shot 6 times (5 times in the back and once in the side) by Franklin Co SWAT off-duty officer (with a high powered rifle & record of other incidents) when he entered his house carrying Subway sandwiches for his grandmother & little cousin. The officer claimed Goodson waved his gun at him when he drove by (disputed), so he followed him to his house and shot him as he entered the house. Goodson was law abiding with a concealed carry permit and no problem background. The grandmother said he was shot in front of her and two toddlers while coming through the door. His sister said he was holding his face mask, keys and sandwiches and did not have his gun out. No charges or grand jury yet because supposedly it's still under investigation.

** Andre Hill - Shot 4 times while standing in a friend's garage - he was there to drop off Christmas money for her kids. Police responded to a non-urgent complaint about a man who was sitting in his car with the motor running in front of their neighbor's house. The officer shot him within seconds and claimed it was because he had a weapon. Body cameras were not activated as required, but the cameras tape back 60 seconds so the shooting was caught on video without sound. It shows Hill holding his smartphone with the screen lit up, not a weapon. The officer was charged with murder and felonious assault and trial is pending. He has previous performance issues - 90 complaints including some for police brutality & civil payouts. The poor man bled to death on the floor of the garage while they did not even attempt to administer medical aid and instead waited 10 min for EMTs. The chief of police was promoted from within the tainted police force & has excused away incident after incident as he dismissed the concerns of the citizens who pay his salary, but he was finally demoted after this shooting. A conviction in this case with a nice long jail term would be a very good deterrent when it comes to police using "I thought he had a weapon" as a convenient excuse. How many times have you sat in your car when you get home listening to the radio or whatever? Apparently in the OH Lt Governor's neighborhood, sitting in your car too long doing nothing illegal is now used to deem you suspicious and justify police shootings.
 

Jaana

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,013
I´m feeling it was definitely right that he got a punishment for Floyd´s death. On the other hand I also feel that he also got punished for the other police men who have walked free out of earlier trials...
 

ErikWilliam

Well-Known Member
Messages
504
I´m feeling it was definitely right that he got a punishment for Floyd´s death. On the other hand I also feel that he also got punished for the other police men who have walked free out of earlier trials...
I'm not so sure this was payback for previous cases of police brutality/murders. I mean, that 10 minute video of his murder was pretty clear cut. What more of evidence would a jury need? I remember my freshman year of college the Rodney King case. There was video of his beating, but the defense actually used it for their defense and tried to say "Look! Between getting clubbed by 7 officers he tries to get up so the video shows he was resisting!" even though it was really just a human instinct to react to a beating that badly out of a survival instinct. But this video of Floyd's torture and murder was vivid as it happened in broad daylight on a public street and witnesses gathered and were imploring the cops to stop killing him. So, I'm not sure this was payback as much as it was that Chauvin committed murder before our very eyes and his actions were indefensible.
 
Last edited:

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,246
I´m feeling it was definitely right that he got a punishment for Floyd´s death. On the other hand I also feel that he also got punished for the other police men who have walked free out of earlier trials...
Which of the three guilty charges do you disagree with and would have found him not guilty on?
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,959
faux news -



""OK, OK," he said. "Whoa, whoa, whoa, did you, wait a second, did you hear what Mike Tobin" - a Fox News reporter - "said when he was interviewing some people and they said, 'Hey, we're not going to loot tonight, we're going to celebrate'? So we were dealing with what we thought was a sense of extortion, that if this didn't go a certain way - I'm speaking the truth - if it didn't go a certain way, there was going to be destruction. We know that. Why pretend otherwise?""

Disgusting.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information