Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

Doggygirl

Going through FS withdrawal after GPF
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Chauvin: Anyone else watching closing arguments? I'm having trouble watching the defense closing arguments. I listen for a while, then I just have to turn off the sound and give my mind/heart a break. I know Chauvin's attorney is just doing his job. I would still like to throw something at him.
 

ErikWilliam

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504
Chauvin: Anyone else watching closing arguments? I'm having trouble watching the defense closing arguments. I listen for a while, then I just have to turn off the sound and give my mind/heart a break. I know Chauvin's attorney is just doing his job. I would still like to throw something at him.
Me too!!!! I want to listen to the defense, but it's all over the place. Did he actually say Flloyd's oxygen saturation was 98% when the medics arrived??? The man was DEAD from suffocation. His O2sat was a big ZERO. Why is the judge allowing outright LIES in his closing? He just throws random shit against the wall, mostly all lies, to scare just one juror into a hung jury? I didn't think you could just lie like that, you'd think he'd be disciplined by the judge or the Bar....
 

Doggygirl

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Me too!!!! I want to listen to the defense, but it's all over the place. Did he actually say Flloyd's oxygen saturation was 98% when the medics arrived??? The man was DEAD from suffocation. His O2sat was a big ZERO. Why is the judge allowing outright LIES in his closing? He just throws random shit against the wall, mostly all lies, to scare just one juror into a hung jury? I didn't think you could just lie like that, you'd think he'd be disciplined by the judge or the Bar....

During the break between defense closing and state rebuttal, I found the lawyer/judge discussion interesting. At least the judge reminded everyone that if a lawyer says something that contradicts the law as the judge explained it, they are to stick with what the judge says.

I agree it was disturbing to listen to what sure seemed like out and out lies on the part of Chauvin's attorney... :eek:
 

Doggygirl

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So those who have been following the trial, what is your guess about what the jury will decide?
I've only served on one jury in my lifetime. But if there is one thing I took away from that experience, it's that unbelievable things can happen in that jury room. (and I also took away that I would never want my future to be decided by 12 of my "peers!")

That said, I took heart from the reports that at least some jurors seemed to lose attention during the defense presentation, but reports seemed to have them very attentive during the state presentation. But it only takes one.....
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
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I'm very leery of juries. During the one local criminal trial I was a juror on, everything turned on one person. The first person who spoke during deliberations was trying to argue "we don't know intent" and a second juror just flattened that argument, saying very forcefully, "Oh, come on! Who walks out of a store with five VCRs by accident? He meant to steal them!" At that point, everything happened pretty swiftly and we voted to convict. We were told later by the prosecutor (not during the trial) that the defendant was already on probation for, you guessed it, the same offense.
 

ErikWilliam

Well-Known Member
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504
So those who have been following the trial, what is your guess about what the jury will decide?
Best hope is for 2nd Degree Manslaughter. The prosecution put on a very good case. The defense was not so good, at times one of his lawyers seemed to have little experience or was just incompetent. But all it takes is one hung juror. We all remember OJ, so I won't make any predictions. But if he is fully acquitted, let's just say I will understand if riots break out. America will have no soul. Anyone with eyes and ears who saw the video knows that he murdered Floyd. For that to be let off the hook? I'm preparing myself for a bad verdict. How depressing.
 

Aussie Willy

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It is depressing that people's automatic assumptions is that Chauvin will get off. But I understand.

I anticipate if he does the powder keg will explode.
 

Susan1

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9,959
Best hope is for 2nd Degree Manslaughter. The prosecution put on a very good case. The defense was not so good, at times one of his lawyers seemed to have little experience or was just incompetent. But all it takes is one hung juror. We all remember OJ, so I won't make any predictions. But if he is fully acquitted, let's just say I will understand if riots break out. America will have no soul. Anyone with eyes and ears who saw the video knows that he murdered Floyd. For that to be let off the hook? I'm preparing myself for a bad verdict. How depressing.
I sort of forget now, but I turned on the t.v. when I got back from the library and one of them was talking about it being an accident. He said something about if you go in to rob a convenience store and your gun goes off, you didn't mean to kill the teller. Uh, either he meant bank = teller or store = cashier. I went "huh". Besides that being a terrible example. The cop meant to commit a crime, but not kill George Floyd? All of it that I've see clips of was so stupid. All these excuses for why he died. They should have gotten a healthy attorney from their team, cuffed him, pressed him down on the ground and knelt on his neck to see how long he could breath.
 

Judy

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I'm very leery of juries. During the one local criminal trial I was a juror on, everything turned on one person. The first person who spoke during deliberations was trying to argue "we don't know intent" and a second juror just flattened that argument, saying very forcefully, "Oh, come on! Who walks out of a store with five VCRs by accident? He meant to steal them!" At that point, everything happened pretty swiftly and we voted to convict. We were told later by the prosecutor (not during the trial) that the defendant was already on probation for, you guessed it, the same offense.
Lol that’s a good story.
 

ballettmaus

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Why did I read that the defense was talking about chocolate chip cookies during closing arguments? Did they really talk about actual chocolate chip cookies? :confused:
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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Why did I read that the defense was talking about chocolate chip cookies during closing arguments? Did they really talk about actual chocolate chip cookies? :confused:
It's not a good argument because one of the nice things about making chocolate chip cookies is that you can throw into them whatever you have laying around. Got some pecans? Throw them in. Don't have pecans? Use walnuts. Or no nuts at all. Or a different kind of chocolate chips. You can use all white sugar or mix in brown. Don't have flour? Use oatmeal. And so forth and so on.
 

FiveRinger

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The defense was weak at best. And let’s not leave out how he asked for a mistrial twice today. Once because the jury wasn’t sequestered and defense was concerned that the jury heard Maxine Waters statements about the trial (a non issue if they followed instructions and weren’t watching the news and avoiding social media) and again, calling prosecutorial misconduct, claiming that prosecutor using the word story (and another phrase meaning a version of the truth) prejudiced the jury.

Any defense of this case was going to be poor. How do you defend this? You really can’t. But I saw where they have gone to distance learning in the schools and shut down Minneapolis in preparation for the verdict. If Chauvin doesn’t get a guilty verdict I’m expecting an apocalypse.
 

BlueRidge

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I didn't follow the trial but I can't believe he would just be acquitted.

I mean... I never can believe it when it happens but this time the visual evidence was so overwhelming.

But it reminds me of three decades ago, when the visual evidence in the Rodney King beating was overwhelming. :(

Maybe things have changed? I hope...
 

BlueRidge

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Sorry for the double post, I'm reading "tensions are high in Washington" and 250 national guard have been activated in DC.

I guess we have no idea when the verdict might come down? I have to go downtown tomorrow...
 

attyfan

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IIRC, in the first trial in the Rodney King case, there was an incredibly strong defense, bolstered by the fact that it was undisputed that the video did not capture the entire event -- and by the fact that the prosecution did not even have a use-of-force expert until rebuttal. However, there was a second trial (federal civil rights violation), where the prosecution had a really good expert from the outset ... and got convictions.

The biggest issue about the second trial is that the convictions were all upheld .... even though the second trial was after the riots ... if the riots weren't enough to unfairly prejudice a jury, I doubt that Waters's comments are enough.
 

Doggygirl

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I can't even imagine an acquital after all of the powerful video evidence + all the eye witness and expert testimony. Yet this sort of thing has happened SO often (tragically) and rarely are police officers convicted.

About 30 years ago I sat on a jury in Pinellas County FL. It was a case where an 18 year old Hispanic male was accused of assaulting a police officer. I was sort of surprised the state even brought the case because the accused young man had the sh*t beat out of him by the police, and there was a lot of photographic evidence from the emergency room to prove it. I figured this kid was no angel, and this all happened between 2 and 3am when positive things are generally not happening on the streets. But the cop who beat the crap out of him was WAY bigger than him. Supposedly this all happened at a "routine traffic stop" where this kid supposedly assaulted the officer. There was no physical evidence presented about this assault - just the police officer saying the kid assaulted him. And lots of photo evidence that this kid had the sh*t beat out of him.

Let me tell you what happened in the jury room. 10 of the 12 of us would have voted to convict this kid. I couldn't believe it. I held out along with another person, and 1 by 1 other people joined us. Frankly most of the jurors just wanted to get out of there. There were three or four of us that actually cared about what we were there to do. I am proud to say we were able to swing everyone the other way, and we acquitted.

On the way out of the court room, the bailiff told us that 1) this kid is already, even at his young age, no stranger to the court house. (I hope he did something positive after this time..) and 2) the reason the state even brought this case was to try to avoid a lawsuit by this kid's family, who planned to sue the [email protected] out of the city/county over the brutality of the beating.

Being on that jury was an unbelievable experience just to see how 1 or 2 people can sway the whole thing, to see how many people believe the police no matter what the evidence actually shows, and to see how many people really didn't care about anything other than going home.

#justiceforgeorgefloyd
 
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Judy

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2,767
I can't even imagine an acquital after all of the powerful video evidence + all the eye witness and expert testimony. Yet this sort of thing has happened SO often (tragically) and rarely are police officers convicted.

About 30 years ago I sat on a jury in Pinellas County FL. It was a case where an 18 year old Hispanic male was accused of assaulting a police officer. I was sort of surprised the state even brought the case because the accused young man had the sh*t beat out of him by the police, and there was a lot of photographic evidence from the emergency room to prove it. I figured this kid was no angel, and this all happened between 2 and 3am when positive things are generally not happening on the streets. But the cop who beat the crap out of him was WAY bigger than him. Supposedly this all happened at a "routine traffic stop" where this kid supposedly assaulted the officer. There was no physical evidence presented about this assault - just the police officer saying the kid assaulted him. And lots of photo evidence that this kid had the sh*t beat out of him.

Let me tell you what happened in the jury room. 10 of the 12 of us would have voted to convict this kid. I couldn't believe it. I held out along with another person, and 1 by 1 other people joined us. Frankly most of the jurors just wanted to get out of there. There were three or four of us that actually cared about what we were there to do. I am proud to say we were able to swing everyone the other way, and we acquitted.

On the way out of the court room, the bailiff told us that 1) this kid is already, even at his young age, no stranger to the court house. (I hope he did something positive after this time..) and 2) the reason the state even brought this case was to try to avoid a lawsuit by this kid's family, who planned to sue the [email protected] out of the city/county over the brutality of the beating.

Being on that jury was an unbelievable experience just to see how 1 or 2 people can sway the whole thing, to see how many people believe the police no matter what the evidence actually shows, and to see how many people really didn't care about anything other than going home.

#justiceforgeorgefloyd
I’m surprised that there are juries for robberies.

if I was a juror for any trial I would feel very obligated to follow the evidence, discuss, listen .. review etc. A jury is not the same as the general population. If I were to send someone to prison I have to live with my decision. I wouldn’t be drawing any conclusions from it being the first or second day of deliberations or what he’s going to be convicted of.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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8,339
I didn't follow the trial but I can't believe he would just be acquitted.

I mean... I never can believe it when it happens but this time the visual evidence was so overwhelming.

But it reminds me of three decades ago, when the visual evidence in the Rodney King beating was overwhelming. :(

Maybe things have changed? I hope...
I think that a hung-jury would be the outcome if they don't convict.
 

Judy

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2,767
Holy sh*t has anyone else seen this one?

A 73 year old woman with dementia was arrested and injured after walking out of a store without paying. However the video is horrifying. They didn't even talk to her. They just grabbed her and threw her on the ground. And she just says she is going home. She probably has no clue what she has done.


My father who is 77 with dementia has escaped from his nursing home but has never been treated like this here.

These police have cameras which film everything and they still behave like this?
We had something kinda similar somewhere where a First Nations lady was tackled to the ground by a security guard at a grocery store for shoplifting. If I can find the video again I will post.

The crazy part was when she got to her feet - and she was pretty small - she punched him. Then she was tackled by him in her car.

So yah apparently she had shoplifted and yah extremely wrong for a security guard who had to be treated for injuries.

but yeah the punch .. it was a good one too. hit his face. The security company is no longer providing security to them.

 
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Sparks

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3 charges: - 2nd degree unintentional murder - 3rd degree murder - 2nd degree manslaughter
 

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