Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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Which, according to two independent investigations (one from the FBI) and Walker himself, they did. Multiple times.

Stop reading fake news.

What news are you reading? Post a link. I’ll post Reuters although no doubt you’ll say they are lying left wing commie media.


Walker has contended he believed intruders were breaking into Taylor's home and that the couple did not hear police announce their arrival, contrary to the account of the officers and a neighbor
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,372
What news are you reading? Post a link. I’ll post Reuters although no doubt you’ll say they are lying left wing commie media.

Listen to the audio - go to the primary source.

The audio includes the Louisville Metro Police Department’s interview with Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, on the night of the shooting. It’s unclear if Walker had an attorney present during the interview.

Walker, who was audibly upset, described multiple knocks and both he and Taylor shouting “who is it” to no response.

From there, things diverge. Police say they identified themselves. Walker says no. But everyone agrees there were multiple knocks. Any report after July 10 that says the police did not knock is simply fake news.
 

MsZem

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One of the galling things about the Breonna Taylor case - and others like it - is that ordinary people are supposed to understand that the people knocking/kicking in their door at night are the police and engage with them peacefully. Meanwhile the trained police officers who actually know what's going on are not held to the same standard, and if they say that they perceived an innocent person as a risk, or said person got caught in the crossfire, it's too bad, so sad.

If Kenneth Walker had inadvertently killed a cop, you can be sure he'd be facing much more serious consequences than the officers.
 
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Spikefan

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If I am asleep and someone kicks in my door I am going to be startled awake and not totally coherent, even if they did shout police I doubt it would register in that heightened/startled/not still awake situation. I guess the people arguing her boyfriend shouldn’t have shot are better than the rest of us and would calmly come out of their bedroom with their hands up and engage in a peaceful conversation with armed men. Hopefully you never have to find out if that is truly how you would handle it.
 

Susan1

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One of the galling things about the Breonna Taylor case - and others like it - is that ordinary people are supposed to understand that the people knocking/kicking in their door at night are the police and engage with them peacefully. Meanwhile the trained police officers who actually know what's going on are not held to the same standard, and if they say that they perceived an innocent person as a risk, or said person got caught in the crossfire, it's too bad, so sad.

If Kenneth Walker had inadvertently killed a cop, you can be sure he'd be facing much more serious consequences than the officers.
1. They should know that anybody can pound on your door and yell "police". Who, even in a rich, white neighborhood, would just open the door?
2. If any of those cops whose shots went through a wall had hit a sleeping white kid, they'd be fired and tried and convicted.
 

VGThuy

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It's funny because I thought most white Americans were ok with people shooting intruders in their homes if they didn't know they were the police. You know, the king has the right to protect his castle with a GUN and all that jazz. I guess it only applies to certain Americans.
 

MsZem

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It's funny because I thought most white Americans were ok with people shooting intruders in their homes if they didn't know they were the police. You know, the king has the right to protect his castle with a GUN and all that jazz. I guess it only applies to certain Americans.
Google Ryan Frederick (add "police" to get the relevant one). But at least he wasn't killed and didn't spend time on death row.

2. If any of those cops whose shots went through a wall had hit a sleeping white kid, they'd be fired and tried and convicted.
Oh, cops have gotten away with killing white people too. But I tend to agree that there's even less accountability when the victims are black.

A related story from Propublica. Be warned that it contains some graphic images.
 

Susan1

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It's funny because I thought most white Americans were ok with people shooting intruders in their homes if they didn't know they were the police. You know, the king has the right to protect his castle with a GUN and all that jazz. I guess it only applies to certain Americans.
Yeah, like that "ad" four years ago about a woman who was attacked in her home and was glad she had a gun because Hillary was going to take away everybody's guns and she wouldn't be able to protect herself? She was white, so shoot away?
 

MacMadame

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Cops are being shot at protests in the name of Breonna Taylor. Yet many media outlets are reporting these as peaceful or mostly peaceful.
So 2 cops were shot at one protest. There are thousands of protests all over the country. Which are mostly or entirely peaceful. The idea that if violence breaks out at one or two protests out of thousands (i.e., less than 1% of all protests) that means it's a lie that the protests are mostly peaceful just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

What should the police have done?
Not executed the warrant at all.

And, as soon as the boyfriend started firing, they should have retreated. It was an apartment and there was no way to fire back without endangering many innocent lives. People do realize that retreat is an option, don't they?


I have hesitated to post this for obvious reasons but once in the 80s when I was so straight I didn't even drink let alone do drugs, I was at a house I'd never been to before that belonged to a friend of a friend who turned out to be a low-level drug dealer. While I was there, there was a drug raid. I don't know if it was no-knock one or not. But it was horrible.

There was yelling and police with rifles and guns shoving their way into the house and it was total chaos. And this was in the evening with everyone awake and none of us having guns. I do think they yelled "police" as they came pouring in the front door, but I can tell you that it took a bit for us to realize what was going on. At first, I thought we were being robbed or attacked.

There is no way that police can storm their way into someone's home late at night when they are sleeping and expect the people in the home to understand what is going on. Everyone's first instinct in that situation is that they are being attacked. It's human nature and the response is going to be fight or flight for most people.
 

FiveRinger

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6,893
One of the galling things about the Breonna Taylor case - and others like it - is that ordinary people are supposed to understand that the people knocking/kicking in their door at night are the police and engage with them peacefully. Meanwhile the trained police officers who actually know what's going on are not held to the same standard, and if they say that they perceived an innocent person as a risk, or said person got caught in the crossfire, it's too bad, so sad.

If Kenneth Walker had inadvertently killed a cop, you can be sure he'd be facing much more serious consequences than the officers.
They came pretty close. One of the walls that the shots actually went thru was that of a pregnant woman.

And most people would be especially frightened if they were innocent and never committed a crime of any kind. I own a gun and my weapon is in a completely different one than the room that I sleep in. Perhaps I need to rethink that, seeing as I'm a black woman and I might need to expect the police to kick in my door in the middle of the night, even though I'm not a criminal and have never had more than a traffic violation. True, I'd probably be facing a murder charge, even if they entered my house, in plain clothes, without warning, but I'd be alive. And yes, my weapon is properly registered.
 

MsZem

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I own a gun and my weapon is in a completely different one than the room that I sleep in. Perhaps I need to rethink that, seeing as I'm a black woman and I might need to expect the police to kick in my door in the middle of the night, even though I'm not a criminal and have never had more than a traffic violation. True, I'd probably be facing a murder charge, even if they entered my house, in plain clothes, without warning, but I'd be alive. And yes, my weapon is properly registered.
Do you mean that if you shoot at police during a hypothetical raid you'd face a murder charge but remain alive? Obviously this is not quite as common a situation as it seems, but people who do that are very likely to end up dead. Here's a particularly appalling case.
 

Barbara Manatee

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1,518
You don't get to set up an extremely dangerous and volatile situation and then when something dangerous and volatile happens cry "It's not my fault, I had no choice!" The police planned and carried out the raid. It was their responsibility to make sure it didn't end up with a shootout that put their lives and others in mortal danger.
 

DORISPULASKI

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It makes me angry:
  • Does the Louisville PD have "performance measures" like the APD in Kathryn Johnson's story?
  • The LPD tried to get the person they had arrested to take a plea deal to implicate Breonna.
  • The police always lie...how much lying is in the official story?
  • I am glad Gov. Beshear is going to get all the evidence presented at the grand jury hearing released. It will be a good place for reporters to start digging.
 

FiveRinger

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It's pretty nervy to try to predict what any of us would do if our homes were invaded by plainly clothed police officers who don't announce their presence. I'd bet that you wouldn't be reciting gun laws in your head while trying to decide whether or not to shoot at a bunch of strangers who appear to pose a threat. Shoot first and deal with the consequences later. I can almost bet that if I was in the same spot as Kenny Walker that I wouldn't necessarily have the presence of mind to fire just one shot. How many of us would shoot until the clip was empty? If I was scared for my life, chances are that's the general reaction if you have the presence of mind to even get your weapon.

But this is what the gun-toting 2nd Amendment zealots signed up for. They were the ones screaming about their guns being taken away. Kenneth Walker did everything that he was supposed to do....he followed the law, had a permit and shot an intruders, and he's still being made out to be a criminal. What more do you want from people? Seriously, what are we supposed to do? The right is willing to point the blame everywhere except for where it should be. They break the law, bend it, and twist it up like a damn pretzel to suit them. And then when people protest that vile behavior they scream about violence and broken laws. They have absolutely nothing productive to say about the violence and unlawful behavior that led to the protests.

I said it before and I'll repeat that I don't condone violence. But I also know and understand that you can't keep mistreating people and continue to believe that they aren't going to bite back. People are mad, pissed off and angry. We haven't seen the last of it. This is just the build up to November 3. God help us all. I was looking forward to it. Now it scares the sh*t out of me, because to my soul, I know that the outcome of the election, regardless of who wins, is going to be tragic and bloody. The protests and fights to come don't compare to anything we've seen all summer, and that was bad enough.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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And most people would be especially frightened if they were innocent and never committed a crime of any kind. I own a gun and my weapon is in a completely different one than the room that I sleep in. Perhaps I need to rethink that, seeing as I'm a black woman and I might need to expect the police to kick in my door in the middle of the night, even though I'm not a criminal and have never had more than a traffic violation. True, I'd probably be facing a murder charge, even if they entered my house, in plain clothes, without warning, but I'd be alive. And yes, my weapon is properly registered.
I think you'd be most likely to end up dead as was said before. Alternately, if you ever have anyone living with you, you run the risk of accidentally shooting them if they come into your room late at night (or even just come home late).

I appreciate safe gun owners, btw, and encourage you to stay being one by storing your gun outside of your bedroom and things like that.
 

FiveRinger

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I think you'd be most likely to end up dead as was said before. Alternately, if you ever have anyone living with you, you run the risk of accidentally shooting them if they come into your room late at night (or even just come home late).

I appreciate safe gun owners, btw, and encourage you to stay being one by storing your gun outside of your bedroom and things like that.
I'm not going to move it. But these are things that cross your mind. You'd be crazy if they didn't.
 

demetriosj

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So 2 cops were shot at one protest.

So now it's ok to shoot at police officers during a peaceful protest as long as it's only 2 that are shot??

And, as soon as the boyfriend started firing, they should have retreated.

And got shot in the back? Are you crazy?
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,372
But this is what the gun-toting 2nd Amendment zealots signed up for. They were the ones screaming about their guns being taken away. Kenneth Walker did everything that he was supposed to do....he followed the law, had a permit and shot an intruders, and he's still being made out to be a criminal. What more do you want from people?

Most Libertarian types came to his defense, and Rand Paul is the person who introduced and sponsored the Justice for Breonna Taylor Act that would ban no-knock warrants.

I believe Walker did not realize that the intruders were police, and I do not believe he did anything wrong. I don’t know anyone who does.
 

skatemomaz

Resist
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Most Libertarian types came to his defense, and Rand Paul is the person who introduced and sponsored the Justice for Breonna Taylor Act that would ban no-knock warrants.

I believe Walker did not realize that the intruders were police, and I do not believe he did anything wrong. I don’t know anyone who does.
Pretty sure the poster before you and most of his ilk believe exactly that.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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The democratic governor of Kentucky is on CNN now asking that the evidence that the grand jury heard be released. I hope they do it. The public is not going to be satisfied until then.
This is a very important step for purposes of transparency. Right now people believe the attorney general is nothing more than a politician who manipulated the situation to put an end to the problem. The transcripts and evidence will show if that's the case. It's understandable why people feel that way, considering his mentor is Mitch McConnell, he was a speaker at the GOP convention, Trump is lauding him as some kind of hero and he has the job but no litigation experience for a case like this.

When the transcripts and evidence are made public, we'll be able to read for ourselves.
-Did all the witnesses testify who said they did not hear the police announce, or only the one who initially twice said he didn't and then said he did, and what were the circumstances of him changing his story?
-Were the endangerment charges filed against the officer because only the white residents testified? A bullet went into a neighboring black resident's apt but the officer wasn't charged for that one. Did they testify, was it brought up or why was the officer not charged the same for this other apt? Because right now it seems like a slap in the face - they dismissed Breanna Taylor's life yet gave consideration to white residents. It's tone deaf in the current climate and gives the appearance of a wink to certain populations.
-Was the only focus on the self defense issue or was KY law outlined that apparently does not support a self defense when it comes to harming third parties and innocent bystanders. In other words, did anyone actually advocate for Breonna Taylor to the grand jury or was she simply treated as collateral damage?

I watched an interview with the attorney representing Breonna Taylor's mother. He said the attorney general called her ten minutes prior to making the public announcement to let them know about it. But, he also said the attorney general did not explain to her the endangerment charges were for the neighbors and not her daughter. The unprofessionalism and insensitivity of this just adds to the insufficient rationale in his announcement (just a tragedy, etc.), his inexperience and his affiliations with McConnell and Trump's GOP. I'm really interested in the reports after investigative journalists delve further into the strategy and details of the grand jury case.
 
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Japanfan

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Can people stop saying fake news. You really show your hand when you use that phrase. Have a conversation, have a debate, find some other way to disagree without grabbing that....

It's a childish and completely inaccurate way to just discredit something without evidence. If someone is going to cry fake news, have evidence to back up the claim.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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Clearing up some misinformation about the Breonna Taylor case:


Including the fact that there are not multiple witnesses that said they heard the police announce themselves. There was one and he said they only said it once and he thought it was entirely possible that Taylor and Walker didn't hear it. He also didn't say he heard them announce themselves the first 2 times he was interviewed.

This is definitely the same thing as saying it's been well-established that the police announced themselves.
 

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