Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

Louis

Private citizen
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14,996
I was expecting this. The system is the problem. So you can't fix the problem using the system.

Get rid of no-knock warrants and have rules about shooting at all when in a dense living situation (apartments, condos, townhouses,etc), for starters. As long as these things are allowed, no police officer is going to be indicted for doing these things.

I agree with this. The no-knock warrant is the problem (though there is some dispute about whether they announced themselves). The officers were doing their jobs, wearing vests that said POLICE, and were being shot at. WTF were they supposed to do? Surrender and die? I am not sure what different course of action they could have taken that would have preserved their own lives, which were in clear and imminent danger.

It's a tragic situation. No-knock warrants should be illegal or highly, highly scrutinized to "America's Most Wanted" levels. I find it hard to blame the officers for executing legal orders. Blame the people who gave the orders.
 

demetriosj

Well-Known Member
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1,853
I’m also livid about what an armed militia (white supremacists) might do tonight, may no more lives be lost.

What? What does this have to do with alleged "armed militia" (white supremacists)?? It's BLM activists and crazy, spoiled, leftist Marxists that are rioting, burning, looting.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
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11,624
I’m just so sad, outraged and at a loss. I’m also livid about what an armed militia (white supremacists) might do tonight, may no more lives be lost.
I understand. There is actual video of these militias White gangs armed to the hilt marching before the Grand Jury's decision came in. The latest videos I'm seeing are of police officers pushing back and arresting protesters. If there is a riot tonight in Louisville, it will be a Police Riot.
I am all for arresting violent people and looters because they are criminals. Exercising one's 1st Amendment rights and protesting against social injustice is NOT a crime.
There is a difference between a Police Riot and a Racial Riot (ie: LA in 1992).
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,278
there is some dispute about whether they announced themselves).
If you push into someone's house without knocking (rather than knocking and having them let you in) when it's the middle of the night and the people who live there are asleep, even if you say "Police" on your way in, there is no way anyone is going to be able to make sense of what is happening. Saying "oh we announced ourselves" is just CYA. A no-knock warrant is, by its nature, unannounceable.

While I expected this and I do think the main problem is the warrant, I have to say that letting Brionna bleed out for 20 minutes before rendering aide should also have been punished.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
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11,624
Yes, the warrant was a problem. My biggest problem with all of this the excessive use of force.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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What? What does this have to do with alleged "armed militia" (white supremacists)?? It's BLM activists and crazy, spoiled, leftist Marxists that are rioting, burning, looting.
Because they have been videod piggy backing off the BLM protests and causing mayhem. Remember umbrella man? Stop pinning the violence on one side.

And BTW - it isn't the ones you say who are on the FBI terrorists lists. It is those right-wing nutjobs, including QAnon, and other extreme right-wing groups who are being closely monitored.
 
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Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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7,650
There is this update regarding the shooting of the autistic boy by the police in UT:
He was chased and shot even though the mother gave very detailed information to the police. I haven't watched the police video of the incident, but apparently there was a very specific discussion by one of the officers trying to deescalate the situation before they even went to the door.
Before the officers walked up to Linden’s house, one of the three officers present, a woman, is heard questioning whether they should approach the house if no one else inside is in danger, and even suggests calling their sergeant and getting another opinion on how department policy calls for handling the situation.

“If it’s a psych problem and (the mom) is out of the house, I don’t see why we should even approach, in my opinion. ... I’m not about to get in a shooting because (the boy) is upset, sorry,” the officer is heard saying on her body camera.

“Especially when he hates cops,” an officer replies.

“Yeah, if no one is in the house, no one is in danger ... sorry, I’m not about to get in a shooting. Especially if he’s fleeing from us and throwing guns out the window,” she said.
The mother verified when she met with the officers the guns they were referring to were BB guns.
 

Lacey

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11,486
Let's go back to Breonna.

The "witnesses" all said that the police did not announce themselves. Now one has changed his story, and all of a sudden, oops way after their initial statements, they are saying they did.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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14,996
The "witnesses" all said that the police did not announce themselves. Now one has changed his story, and all of a sudden, oops way after their initial statements, they are saying they did.

Two independent investigations, including one by the FBI, concluded that the officers did announce their presence, and did not execute the warrant as "no-knock." Kenneth Walker told police he heard knocking. All of this has been confirmed by Attorney General Daniel Cameron and is easily verifiable (but is frequently not being reported in left-wing media outlets).

Regardless, I have issues with the way this warrant was conducted and fully support procedural reforms that prevent something like from ever happening again.

Meanwhile, two officers have been shot in what the left-wing media is reporting as more "peaceful protests."
 

Louis

Private citizen
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14,996
How is this relevant?

Because the left-wing media is reporting and repeating lies and distortions to fan the flames.

What happened to Taylor is unacceptable and tragic, but it's not an excuse for lies.

The police knocked. Two investigations and Walker himself confirm this. Yet many in the media keep reporting the myth that they did not.

Cops are being shot at protests in the name of Breonna Taylor. Yet many media outlets are reporting these as peaceful or mostly peaceful.

We are living in a world of "alternative facts" from both the left and right wing media. I don't trust anything I read from U.S. media outlets. At minimum, I need to read both left and right wing sources, and often I need to go to the source material, including transcripts and video (as I did here). It should not be this way.
 

demetriosj

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Because the left-wing media is reporting and repeating lies and distortions to fan the flames.

What happened to Taylor is unacceptable and tragic, but it's not an excuse for lies.

The police knocked. Two investigations and Walker himself confirm this. Yet many in the media keep reporting the myth that they did not.

Cops are being shot at protests in the name of Breonna Taylor. Yet many media outlets are reporting these as peaceful or mostly peaceful

Agree. Media complicit in fanning the flames and distorting facts since May.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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14,996
“But because of what happened to two police officers I am going to give it a pass”

Absolutely not. I stand with Rand Paul and others in demanding a ban on no-knock warrants (regardless of whether one was used here). I applaud the Louisville police for firing the police chief, requiring body cameras, and banning no-knock warrants. Police throughout the country must adopt these same reforms so that this never happens again.

I won't join the bandwagon condemning the police officers whose lives were recklessly put into clear and immediate danger. People want them to go to prison for defending their lives (because blue lives don't matter, and all cops deserve to die, according to some in the Democratic party).

I also won't stand by and let this tragedy turn into left wing propaganda and excuses for violence and shooting police at "peaceful protests."
 

FiveRinger

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6,634
Absolutely not. I stand with Rand Paul and others in demanding a ban on no-knock warrants (regardless of whether one was used here). I applaud the Louisville police for firing the police chief, requiring body cameras, and banning no-knock warrants. Police throughout the country must adopt these same reforms so that this never happens again.

I won't join the bandwagon condemning the police officers whose lives were recklessly put into clear and immediate danger. People want them to go to prison for defending their lives (because blue lives don't matter, and all cops deserve to die, according to some in the Democratic party).

I also won't stand by and let this tragedy turn into left wing propaganda and excuses for violence and shooting police at "peaceful protests."
The police officers put themselves in danger by executing a no-knock warrant that they were told not to execute and did so anyway. One person hearing one person announce themselves using the word “police” is not an announcement. Twelve other neighbors heard nothing. That is insufficient. They put themselves in danger by executing a warrant for an individual that they already had in custody. They put themselves in danger by firing 32 shots blindly into an apartment(s), one of those bullets narrowly missing a f*cking furnace that could have potentially killed everyone in the building. I, for one, am not going to pat those officers on the back for reckless behavior. If you can justify all of that in your mind, that’s on you. I could go on, but it’s too early in the morning. And let’s be clear. There’s no way that LMPD would have paid a $12 million settlement if they didn’t know that what they did was wrong. Frankly, I think they paid it hoping to stop the digging and investigating, in order to placate citizens of Louisville and the rest of the country. And now they’ve got the National Guard down there because they knew those people would lose their minds when the grand jury findings were announced. I don’t condone violence, but what did you guys think was going to happen? As a black woman, as a former first responder, I’m horrified by all of this. That could have been me, my sister, or anyone I know.

Jon Mattingly’s Email

And having read this email, I invite Jon Mattingly, AG Cameron, and anyone else who goes along with this cover up, because that’s what this is, to take their self-righteous, self-serving xenophobic and racist bullsh*t and shove it straight up their asses. These feckless cowards have jobs to serve the public. No one forced it on them. If you can’t do it because you don’t have the heart or stomach for it, remove yourself. Leave. Go do something else. It’s the best thing you can do not only us, but for yourselves.
 
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Louis

Private citizen
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14,996
So a sleeping woman deserved what she got because her boyfriend. That’s a new level of misogyny right there.

Taylor was not sleeping when she got shot. She got up with her boyfriend, who shot a police officer.

Nobody deserved what they got. When gunfire is exchanged, people get caught in the crossfire. If people start shooting you, and you have a gun, the natural human instinct is to shoot back and defend your life.

What should the police have done? Been shot to death?

The left-wing media makes it sound like police marched into the house and shot a sleeping woman. This is a bald-faced lie.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
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6,634
BTW, the other thing that is so sickening is that Breonna Taylor was a first responder. She was a peer of these officers. Even if she did work in a hospital, she was an EMT. I wonder if these officers knew her or had had interactions with her previously. Of course LMPD officers visit ERs. I’m just gutted for her that this police department showed such disrespect to her.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
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6,634
So a sleeping woman deserved what she got because her boyfriend. That’s a new level of misogyny right there.
One sad and unfortunate lesson that I have learned recently is that if you haven’t had the Supreme Court decide whether you have the same rights as others, you have privilege. And there are people with privilege who will say and do anything to justify and keep it. I feel like that is one of my biggest life’s lessons in the last 4 years. It is sad, but true. And then we have people who don’t have privilege but align themselves with people who have it just so that they can acquire it.
 

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