Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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Beg pardon for the one sentence exaggeration in my five paragraph commentary. I am upset with the recent totally ineffective turn of events with the demonstrators because I have always been on the side of non-violence and that's where I will always remain. Also please excuse me if I'm out of line for standing up for an even handed approach to public art administration or suggesting it's not a great idea to rip down sculptures representing women's rights when it has nothing to do with the issue or problems at hand.
 

Cachoo

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Meanwhile at Kansas State: A self-described MAGA student has some awful tweets. An example: Congratulations to George Floyd for being drug free for a month. The KState football team wants him suspended or they will not play.
 

MsZem

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Meanwhile at Kansas State: A self-described MAGA student has some awful tweets. An example: Congratulations to George Floyd for being drug free for a month. The KState football team wants him suspended or they will not play.
Random student named Jaden McNeil— he keeps putting pollution out there, infuriating other students.
A student at a public university posting random offensive crap is probably protected by the first amendment, isn't he? Unless they can get him on a Title IX violation.
 

Cachoo

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A student at a public university posting random offensive crap is probably protected by the first amendment, isn't he? Unless they can get him on a Title IX violation.
He certainly is protected. I think he wants to provoke an ugly response.
 

Cachoo

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Apparently he is part of a small group of white nationalists who decided, after Charlottesville, to make K-State their base. Lucky K-State.
 

MacMadame

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Beg pardon for the one sentence exaggeration in my five paragraph commentary.
One sentence? That's just the one I had the energy to respond to.

Okay, you are upset by the violence and think it will hurt the movement. I disagree (That it will hurt the movement; I agree people shouldn't be hurt). That is not a personal attack.
 

VGThuy

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I'm going to post a summary of Elijah McClain's last words as the cops pretty much killed him. He was absolutely frightened and begging for his life.

McClain, meanwhile, can be heard asking the officers to stop, explaining that they started to arrest him as he was “stopping [his] music to listen.” He gasps that he cannot breathe. He tells them his name, says he has ID but no gun, and pleads that his house is “right there.” He sobs, and vomits, and apologizes: “I wasn’t trying to do that,” he says. “I just can’t breathe correctly.” One of the officers can also be heard threatening to set his dog on McClain if he “keep messing around,” and claiming he exhibited an extreme show of strength when officers tried to pin back his arms.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
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The people who keep saying "If you don't do anything wrong, the cops won't bother you" should have to listen to this gentle soul's dying words on loop.
 

Lemonade20

Active Member
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The people who keep saying "If you don't do anything wrong, the cops won't bother you" should have to listen to this gentle soul's dying words on loop.
sad but true. If it was a white person, there’d be outrage and justice. We need to look past the skin color. Imagine being shot to death while you were sleeping
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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The transcript of what he said while they while they had him on the ground has been confirmed by snopes:
I can’t breathe. I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain. That’s my house. I was just going home. I’m an introvert. I’m just different. That’s all. I’m so sorry. I have no gun. I don’t do that stuff. I don’t do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don’t even kill flies! I don’t eat meat! But I don’t judge people, I don’t judge people who do eat meat. Forgive me. All I was trying to do was become better. I will do it. I will do anything. Sacrifice my identity, I’ll do it. You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful and I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m a mood Gemini. I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. Ow, that really hurt. You are all very strong. Teamwork makes the dream work. Oh, I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to do that. I just can’t breathe correctly.
Yet according to the police version from the various news reports and what they are telling each other on camera:
  • Wearing a ski mask=suspicious activity (in CO) - even though the 911 caller specifically said he was not threatened and did not see a weapon and the call was confirmed by an officer at the scene
  • He was out of control - Police had two officers holding him down while handcuffed so he couldn't move with an additional six or more surrounded him with threats to tase him or have the dog bite him when he moved a bit because he was obviously in pain
  • He was "definitely on something" (statement made by at least one officer to others) - the reports said all he tested for was some pot
  • He displayed inhuman strength :rolleyes:
  • At lease one of the officers who stopped him said they tried hard to speak with him for information - Yet they initiated the physical altercation almost immediately, even though he clearly told them he was taking off his earphones to listen to them and he was an introvert and wanted them to respect boundaries.
  • An officer put forth the story that he didn't know what he was talking about or couldn't understand him because he was speaking nonsense ("definitely on something" again) - cover up for use of physical force, or excuse so they could have McClain medicated by EMTs?
  • The ever ready he was going for a weapon justification - he was unarmed
While the poor man was on the ground, the officers spent practically the entire time talking back and forth with each other while they completely ignored his words. Now the whole world can get a good look at how hard they tried to have a conversation with him to prevent this encounter. :(
 
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MacMadame

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Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but we were talking about peaceful vs. non-peaceful protest and I found this video that sums up my feelings on the matter pretty much perfectly:

 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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I have been thinking about the Elijah McClain case all weekend. I found it so disturbing it kept me up all night for a couple nights. It seems like it didn't get the exposure of some of these other incidents mainly because there was no third party video and law enforcement was able to delay the release of the police videos for months and control the story put out about the autopsy. The sidestepping by the police with no apparent oversight is so troubling, from the failure to provide accurate info to the family during the notification and hospital meetings, to the delay in releasing information to the public, to the brazenness of the misleading statements by the police. When looking at those processes, it's not a stretch to believe there's a good chance the autopsy report was manipulated by the coroner and the police who attended the procedure.

Even if they believed they could not press criminal charges against any of those at the police party, why do the main officers involved still have jobs? Based on the 911 call, when looking at the camera documentation, there are at least ten or more places where they could have clearly deescalated the situation. Starting with the initial stop based on a general concern by a citizen with no allegation of criminal activity, it's hard to understand if the young man is simply walking down the street why the police wouldn't simply follow him without any interaction at all and watch him go into his apt. Then if there is some later call about a robbery by someone with a face mask, they know where he lives. Instead they escalated from 1-12 within seconds. They openly lied and probably falsified their written reports about how they tried to have a conversation with him, they clearly exaggerated the young man's condition in order to have him medicated unnecessarily. They shared with other officers that he could speak English, yet they didn't listen to any of the English he was speaking. Plus about ten or twenty other negligent acts. How does all of this add up to job reassignment rather than job termination?

Regarding the EMT that administered the ketamine, it appears they make decisions based on statements by the officers and not based on their own assessment of the detained. This is also something that appears negligent and hard to defend. If law enforcement will not study the numbers for how often this is done, I hope journalists will do it.

Heartbreaking.
 

snoopy

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Based on the 911 call, when looking at the camera documentation, there are at least ten or more places where they could have clearly deescalated the situation. Starting with the initial stop based on a general concern by a citizen with no allegation of criminal activity, it's hard to understand if the young man is simply walking down the street why the police wouldn't simply follow him without any interaction at all and watch him go into his apt.

Policing hasn’t been about deescalation - which is one of the biggest criticisms of policing. Also, police expect complete acquiescence to any one of their commands. Once they said he didn’t follow orders, the rest of the police department fell in line. Those two things: deescalation and what force the police can use absent complete acquiescence are two key things that need to be addressed to improve policing. This incident is the poster child of what is wrong with policing.
 
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AxelAnnie

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Policing hasn’t been about deescalation - which is one of the biggest criticisms of policing. Also, police expect complete acquiescence to any one of their commands. Once they said he didn’t follow orders, the rest of the police department fell in line. Those two things: deescalation and what force the police can use absent complete acquiescence are two key things that need to be addressed to improve policing.
Ummmm...yeah . Complete acquiescence. If the police man says get out of the car...get out of the car. It is an order to be followed...not an open.conversation. that is called law and order. Now does the police need to be fixed....sure. there are some bad policemen there. That it is a whole different thing. We live in a society of rules....not suggestions....and the police are charged with enforcing the laws.

It is like teachers are in charge of the classroom...officers are in charge of.their whatevers in the service


Crossing guards.are.in charge of.the crosswalks.....and on and on.
 

snoopy

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Now does the police need to be fixed....sure. there are some bad policemen there.
I think the problem is bigger than bad policemen. In fact, I think police culture makes average people do bad things. Police do not have the right to do anything they want to you and they and we need to recognize that. (Teachers don’t have the absolute rule of the children in their charge either. They can’t kill a misbehaving child for example.)
 

skatingguy

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Ummmm...yeah . Complete acquiescence. If the police man says get out of the car...get out of the car. It is an order to be followed...not an open.conversation. that is called law and order. Now does the police need to be fixed....sure. there are some bad policemen there. That it is a whole different thing. We live in a society of rules....not suggestions....and the police are charged with enforcing the laws.

It is like teachers are in charge of the classroom...officers are in charge of.their whatevers in the service


Crossing guards.are.in charge of.the crosswalks.....and on and on.
And in all the scenarios that you mentioned black people are more likely to be called out, more likely to be given orders, more likely to be disciplined, more likely to face severe consequences, and that is why these are systemic issues that go beyond any individual actions and speak to the need to reexamine institutions at every level.
 

MacMadame

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Ummmm...yeah . Complete acquiescence. If the police man says get out of the car...get out of the car. It is an order to be followed...not an open.conversation. that is called law and order. Now does the police need to be fixed....sure. there are some bad policemen there. That it is a whole different thing. We live in a society of rules....not suggestions....and the police are charged with enforcing the laws.

It is like teachers are in charge of the classroom...officers are in charge of.their whatevers in the service


Crossing guards.are.in charge of.the crosswalks.....and on and on.
Sounds more like fascism to me. I prefer living in a Democracy where citizens have rights and the police don't have absolute power.
 

AxelAnnie

Graceful men lift lovely girls in white!
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Sounds more like fascism to me. I prefer living in a Democracy where citizens have rights and the police don't have absolute power.
Police do not have complete power. Sorry you think that. Police have the power to enforce the laws of the jurisdiction within which they work.
 

once_upon

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Police do not have complete power. Sorry you think that. Police have the power to enforce the laws of the jurisdiction within which they work.
Nope. The have absolute power in any situation they are involved in. They are the ones who are judge, jury and execution of the incident.

In any interaction they determine someone to be guilty, they determine what action the district attorney will do (arrest or let go either with a ticket or warning), the act as the judge - guilty or not, and what to do as the jury. Sometimes too often they determine death is the only answer.

DA, Judge, Jury and administrator of punishment. They absolutely have power in every single interaction
 

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