Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,071
This feels a bit like victim blaming.
The poor man who called for a welfare check was being a good neighbor.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,545
No one wants to admit this but the fact that Texas is an open carry state I think erodes trust in “just knocking.” Ppl have to assume someone is armed at all times. One of the many reasons why there needs to be stricter gun laws.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,124
I have to wonder why the neighbor didn't just go over there and knock on the door. That's what I do when I see my neighbors have gone off and left the door open.
I'm not sure if I had dared checking myself if I thought there might be an intruder in the house.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
34,485
This feels a bit like victim blaming.
It's not victim-blaming because the man who called the police was not the victim. Victim-blaming would be saying things like "why did the dead woman have a gun?"

Also, we can learn from what happened. But only if we understand what happened.
 

El Rey

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,899
No one wants to admit this but the fact that Texas is an open carry state I think erodes trust in “just knocking.” Ppl have to assume someone is armed at all times. One of the many reasons why there needs to be stricter gun laws.
Curious...do you live in Texas? I live in Houston and don’t feel this way at all about people having guns. If i had felt there was suspicious activity, I would have contacted neighbor if I had their info first. If i didn’t, I’d have contacted the police. I would have never approached the house. Isn’t that what we have been told to do by police if we see something suspicious?
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
34,485
Curious...do you live in Texas? I live in Houston and don’t feel this way at all about people having guns. If i had felt there was suspicious activity, I would have contacted neighbor if I had their info first. If i didn’t, I’d have contacted the police. I would have never approached the house. Isn’t that what we have been told to do by police if we see something suspicious?
I'm confused. Didn't you just agree with @canbelto? As in, use contact info, then police, but no going over and knocking.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,071
Per twitter:
Former Fort Worth police officer Aaron Dean has been booked into jail for murder.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
I'm out of free NY Times articles for this month, but here are some other reports with additional information.
Merritt said police not only violated Jefferson's rights but also made "common sense" mistakes. He called release of a photo of a gun found in the bedroom "obscene," saying no connection had been made between the gun and the shooting.
Merritt said the victim's nephew told him the duo had been up late playing "Halo" – with the doors open to enjoy the cool fall breeze – when they heard noise outside her bedroom window.

"They looked at each other and listened more intently when they heard it again," Merritt said in a social media post. "Someone was outside." Merritt said the nephew described how his aunt went to the window to see who was there.

"Suddenly a man's voice was screaming something he couldn't make out, and then 'bang,' " Merritt said. Jefferson fell to the floor. Merritt said he didn't ask the child what he saw next because he didn't want him "to have to relive that."
:(

Ashley Carr, Jefferson’s oldest sister, said her sister had recently moved home to care for her mother, who was in declining health and remained hospitalized Monday. The night she was killed, Jefferson was simply enjoying life in her home, “where no one would have expected her life to be in harm’s way, especially not at the hands of a civil servant who had taken the oath to serve and protect," Carr said.
Kraus said that though Jefferson’s neighbor James Smith called a non-emergency number to ask for a welfare check at her home, the officers were not aware of that fact. The responding officers received information from dispatch about an “open structure” call, which Kraus said requires a more heightened response than a welfare check.

Kraus said officers will typically park down the street and approach with caution when responding to open structure calls. It would be normal for officers to announce themselves on a welfare check, but not if they thought the incident might involve a criminal situation, he said.
It certainly doesn't excuse the officer's actions, but it also sounds like their dispatch did not relay the appropriate information.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,545
This is so tragic. And this shows a severe lack of training of police officers. No sign of violence or conflict, not even a traffic stop. And the response is deadly shot within seconds? There needs to be more vigorous vetting of who joins the force, what assignments they are given, de-escalation training. And also, less racism.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
Prosecutors argued Smith, with no legal justification, escalated a consensual stop with Gunn to deadly force, shooting and killing the 58-year-old just feet away from the home he lived in with his mother.

Smith's defense argued Smith feared for his life as a solo, young officer in a "high-crime" area, and that Gunn armed himself with a paint pole from a neighbor's porch, leading Smith to shoot him seven times.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,124
In Georgia, an African American man who was out jogging, was chased by a former police officer and his son and shot dead. They claimed he looked like a burglar. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/ahmaud-arbery-jogging-georgia-shooting/index.html

Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was jogging in a Brunswick neighborhood on February 23 when a man and his son chased him down, telling police later that they thought he looked like the suspect in a series of recent break-ins in the area.

...

Attorney Lee Merritt, who is representing the family, told CNN Sunday "the decision to rely on the citizen's arrest statute is really a recent invention, prior to that they just simply said it was self defense." Merritt says now the men are trying to use the law to say they were trying to stop a crime.

"According to that law, you actually have to be observing the crime or be in the immediate knowledge of the crime," Merritt said. "The only thing they have ever said is ... that Ahmaud stopped by a house that was under construction and he looked through the window. We don't know if that happened or not, but even if that did happen that is not a felony that would invoke the citizen's arrest statute that would make this allowable."

...

After the shooting, Gregory McMichael told police he saw the same man "the other night" and that he stuck his hand down his pants on that occasion, leading McMichael to believe he was armed.

...

At best, the men had the authority to follow Arbery and send law enforcement to that location, Merritt said. The 911 calls show the dispatcher was asking the men what Arbery is doing that was of criminal concern, Merritt said.
"They didn't give any answer for that, they said, 'He's a black man running down our road,'" Merritt said.
When is it ever going to stop? :fragile:
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
11,757
It isn't. And what happens after pandemics is scapegoating.

It is how people make themselves feel safe after horrible periods of time. We Assign blame to those unlike us, and initiate lynchings, pogroms, witch burning, and/or internment camps.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
I don't understand why they even need to submit that case to a grand jury other than spinelessness or to extend delays in a continuing effort to avoid responsibility and protect a former employee who turned vigilante.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
34,485
I assume they will now whine about their rights and start a GoFundMe to pay their legal bills. :mad:

If this situation makes you mad, you can join our virtual run for Admaud. Run 2.23 km on 5/8/2020, his birthday.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
NRA members who support legal funds for those two will be doing it at their own peril. Not talking them up as part of the "good guys with guns" contingent would be in their best interests. I wonder what Sean Hannity's commentary will be when it comes to this incident after his criticism of the long guns at the State House protests last week.

It will be interesting to see if the killers actually use self defense as a justification for killing the young man. A credible counter argument can be made that the jogger is the one who really tried to exercise self defense by attempting to disarm lawless vigilantes who were aggressively hunting him down and assaulting him.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406

Unfortunately even if it is determined there is negligence, I'm not confident the mother will get the justice she seeks in this case. When I lived in DC area there were several incidents of misuse of police force during executing search warrants, even including one where they roughed up and terrorized an innocent elderly grandma in the middle of the night because they negligently misread the address on the search warrant. Law enforcement was protected by the legal system and faced no criminal prosecution for any of them. It's become such an entitlement they don't even feel the need to apologize to grandma or her family when they do things like this.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
Messages
26,833
@Artistic Skaters I believe they are using self-defense. He tried to get the gun away from the two yokels and so they are claiming he "attacked" them. DUDE YOU PULLED A GUN ON HIM OMG

And of course the "why didn't he just comply with their request" crowd is out and about already, too.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
34,485
And of course the "why didn't he just comply with their request" crowd is out and about already, too.
He "didn't comply with simple requests" is a direct quote from one of them. Excuse me? You aren't a police officer. No one is under any requirement to "comply" with any of your "requests"
 

DreamSkates

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,507
Curious...do you live in Texas? I live in Houston and don’t feel this way at all about people having guns. If i had felt there was suspicious activity, I would have contacted neighbor if I had their info first. If i didn’t, I’d have contacted the police. I would have never approached the house. Isn’t that what we have been told to do by police if we see something suspicious?
EXACTLY!
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
They're using self defense when they speak out in an effort to try to sway public opinion like the Zimmerman case in FL. But it sounds like the GA laws are more restrictive, so when they actually go to trial, how far will it get them?

It's not like the Zimmerman case where they can even pretend self defense since they were in the car and had options but purposely chose to escalate. Their claim about making a citizens arrest also doesn't sound like it's going to hold up because lawyers are saying they were not within the parameters of the actual law. It also doesn't sound like they will have supporting testimony from either their friend who made the video that was released or the homeowner who was having the house built which was their supposed reason for chasing Arbery. I hope all this means they'll be able to get a conviction when the time comes.
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,549
He "didn't comply with simple requests" is a direct quote from one of them. Excuse me? You aren't a police officer. No one is under any requirement to "comply" with any of your "requests"
I'd love to turn that around on those two when two armed black men think they are criminals and order them to stop. There seem to be rules that only apply to white men and rules that only apply to minorities.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
Messages
7,406
The father involved in the shooting lost power to make arrests when he was still working in law enforcement:
From the news reports, it sounds like he is the one who initiated the day's events. I wonder what he thinks of taking this action now that his son is facing life in prison for his choices.

Breonna Taylor's mother and her attorney were interviewed on The View today:
The attorney said the police team randomly sprayed bullets from the front door and some of them went through the walls into other apartments. One of them went through the wall into a neighbor's bedroom where a five year old was sleeping.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 16, Guests: 5)

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information