Why Does This Keep Happening: The Police Thread

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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Tucker Carlson has made it blatantly clear in recent weeks, if he had not before, that he is an overt racist who believes America is white and must be kept white.

Its time for every advertiser who supports his broadcasts to be put on notice: stop or you will face major boycotts.

Addendum since I just saw that what Carlson said is trending all over the place. The media needs to stop. Carlson is not news. Stop using him to generate clicks. And all of us, yes promote boycotts that make clear he is racist, but no don't share on social media the latest outrageous thing he said. This is the road Trump took to the White House, let's not make Carlson the new Trump of the demented populists on the right.

 
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Judy

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2,767
That is the theoretical maximum. But in Minnesota, the judge can't just impose what he wants. There are rules he has to follow and those rules say 12.5 years unless he can add on for some things that the news was vague about but the article posted above goes into.

And, he can't do the sentences consecutively because he can only be convicted on one of the charges.


Well, I did. It was creeping me out. And not what I was expecting at all.


I figured they'd find him guilty of manslaughter, for sure, and maybe 3rd degree murder. But 2nd degree, I was less confident on. And I was totally prepared for a hung jury.


I don't think it's normal. This is the first I've heard of it and I was reading earlier that Minnesota's definitions are different than in a lot of other states.
My friend who studied in University in the U.S. says that third degree is used in some states but not all of them. Maybe not a lot?
 

Lacey

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I just found this per CNN, (including the children present mentioned above):

(I think to be determined at the sentencing in 8 weeks)

5 Aggravating factors for Judge to possibly increase sentence

1. Floyd was particularly vulnerable
2. Floyd was treated with particular cruelty
3. Chauvin abused his position of authority
4. Chauvin committed the crime as part of a group of three or more offenders
5. Children were present when the crime was committed

(I interpret it to be that all 5 were obvious).

WOW
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,959
I just found this per CNN, (including the children present mentioned above):

(I think to be determined at the sentencing in 8 weeks)

5 Aggravating factors for Judge to possibly increase sentence

1. Floyd was particularly vulnerable
2. Floyd was treated with particular cruelty
3. Chauvin abused his position of authority
4. Chauvin committed the crime as part of a group of three or more offenders
5. Children were present when the crime was committed

(I interpret it to be that all 5 were obvious).

WOW
I haven't been following closely enough. Will anything happen to the other officers standing there?

Side thought - A white cop who killed a black man will be in prison. Will he be kept away from other inmates?
 

DFJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,543
I haven't been following closely enough. Will anything happen to the other officers standing there?

Side thought - A white cop who killed a black man will be in prison. Will he be kept away from other inmates?

He's in restricted custody at the moment. I would think he'll continue to be held in some form of protected unit.
 

FiveRinger

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7,141
I haven't been following closely enough. Will anything happen to the other officers standing there?

Side thought - A white cop who killed a black man will be in prison. Will he be kept away from other inmates?
The other officers will be tried together in August. If any of them had good sense, they'd be trying to plead out before getting I'm front of a jury. That's if the prosecutors allow it.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,604
Tucker Carlson has made it blatantly clear in recent weeks, if he had not before, that he is an overt racist who believes America is white and must be kept white.

Its time for every advertiser who supports his broadcasts to be put on notice: stop or you will face major boycotts.

Addendum since I just saw that what Carlson said is trending all over the place. The media needs to stop. Carlson is not news. Stop using him to generate clicks. And all of us, yes promote boycotts that make clear he is racist, but no don't share on social media the latest outrageous thing he said. This is the road Trump took to the White House, let's not make Carlson the new Trump of the demented populists on the right.

Carlson was trained from toddlerhood to be a privileged little racist and misogynist who thinks his sh** doesn't stink. If you have HBO, watch the series, "The Lady and the Dale." Tucker's father, Dick Carlson, essentially broke the story that Elizabeth Carmichael, who was supposedly producing the revolutionary, 3-wheeled Dale automobile, was scamming the public (there never really was a working, functional car). However, Dick also found out Liz had been born Jerry Dean Michael and completely fixated on the fact that she was trans. His blatant hatred and distaste for her being trans overrode everything else - when asked to testify in court against her, Carlson refused to call her by female pronouns, even when admonished by the judge. Carlson later went after Renee Richards when she competed in a tennis tournament in the are, insisting over and over that both of these women were men.

Tucker's mom left the family when he was 6, in his words, to "live a Bohemian lifestyle;" he refuses to discuss her otherwise. He has always held a grudge against feminists and any women who want more than traditional homemaker roles. After daddy married a Swanson heiress, Tucky lived a life of total white privilege and cannot stand the concept that maybe America is moving on from the little bubble he lived in. It ain't 1955 no more, where everyone but white males "knew their place."

Oh, and BTW; even though he had almost no contact with his mother after she left, he still sued for a share of her estate when she died. Seems she left him and his brother each one whole dollar, and poor little Tucky felt cheated.
 

genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
Staff member
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37,776
A college friend who writes on politics had this to say about the verdict, and I wholeheartedly agree:

"This isn't a victory for the US justice system, but for the people who fiercely rebelled on the streets."

Last year's sustained protests led to this moment.

Someone said upthread they thought Chauvin's verdict on all 3 counts is at least partially about all the times that police were not held accountable for their racially biased (or just plain racist) violence. I don't disagree - and I agree with the 3 guilty verdicts. Someone had to be the first to be convicted of these actions; doesn't mean he was less wrong because he's the first to be fully punished.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,141
A college friend who writes on politics had this to say about the verdict, and I wholeheartedly agree:

"This isn't a victory for the US justice system, but for the people who fiercely rebelled on the streets."

Last year's sustained protests led to this moment.

Someone said upthread they thought Chauvin's verdict on all 3 counts is at least partially about all the times that police were not held accountable for their racially biased (or just plain racist) violence. I don't disagree - and I agree with the 3 guilty verdicts. Someone had to be the first to be convicted of these actions; doesn't mean he was less wrong because he's the first to be fully punished.
Agreed. I was watching Joy Reid yesterday. They said that Chauvin is only the 8th cop to be convicted of killing a black man since 2005. Now we know more than 8 black men have been unjustly killed by the cops. That made me blink.

Merrick Garland just announced an investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department.

 

ErikWilliam

Well-Known Member
Messages
504
He's in restricted custody at the moment. I would think he'll continue to be held in some form of protected unit.
For sure he will be isolated from the general prison population for the time being and maybe a couple of years more. But eventually he will be let into the main prison. Similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. He was put into the main prison after a period, even though they knew he was going to be a target, and soon after he was beaten to death. I'm sure Chauvin knows his fate in prison. I wouldn't celebrate it, but I confess I will feel no sympathy for him. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Right?

As for the other three pigs, I would be shocked if they haven't talked to their lawyers after the verdict to work on a plea deal.
 

DFJ

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Messages
5,543
For sure he will be isolated from the general prison population for the time being and maybe a couple of years more. But eventually he will be let into the main prison. Similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. He was put into the main prison after a period, even though they knew he was going to be a target, and soon after he was beaten to death. I'm sure Chauvin knows his fate in prison. I wouldn't celebrate it, but I confess I will feel no sympathy for him. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Right?

As for the other three pigs, I would be shocked if they haven't talked to their lawyers after the verdict to work on a plea deal.

Dahmer asked to be put into general population. I very much doubt that Chauvin will ever face that fate.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,377
Tucker Carlson has made it blatantly clear in recent weeks, if he had not before, that he is an overt racist who believes America is white and must be kept white.

Its time for every advertiser who supports his broadcasts to be put on notice: stop or you will face major boycotts.
Here is what I learned yesterday.


Lots of people asking about Tucker Carlson’s advertisers and, well, he doesn’t have any left. Like almost zero. Fox News operates his show at a loss when it comes to ad revenue. They pay for him through carriage fees, which we all pay into through our basic cable packages.

 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,767
Well it's happened AGAIN:

Sorry if someone lunges at someone with a knife the police have to shoot. Regardless of whether they are black/white or anything else.

There is no doubt racial bias exists but there are still dangerous situations that occur regardless of race.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,767
Tucker Carlson has made it blatantly clear in recent weeks, if he had not before, that he is an overt racist who believes America is white and must be kept white.

Its time for every advertiser who supports his broadcasts to be put on notice: stop or you will face major boycotts.

Addendum since I just saw that what Carlson said is trending all over the place. The media needs to stop. Carlson is not news. Stop using him to generate clicks. And all of us, yes promote boycotts that make clear he is racist, but no don't share on social media the latest outrageous thing he said. This is the road Trump took to the White House, let's not make Carlson the new Trump of the demented populists on the right.

Oh that guy is freaking insane,
 

ballettmaus

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Messages
16,246
Sorry if someone lunges at someone with a knife the police have to shoot. Regardless of whether they are black/white or anything else.
No, they don't. And they don't have to shoot to kill and they don't have to shoot four times.

This was a 15-year-old teenager. You can't tell me that officers aren't able to overpower a 15-year-old girl without using lethal force.
 

Judy

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Messages
2,767
No, they don't. And they don't have to shoot to kill and they don't have to shoot four times.

This was a 15-year-old teenager. You can't tell me that officers aren't able to overpower a 15-year-old girl without using lethal force.
I have no opinion about the four shots but yes they do. Look at how close she is with the knife to the other girl.

i asked my previous neighbour - he trains police officers with Ottawa Police - and I asked why they had to shoot to kill vs wounding. He was very clear on the anwser. They have a duty to protect the public and themselves from harm. How would you have felt if that knife was so close to you?
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
58,358
Here is what I learned yesterday.


Lots of people asking about Tucker Carlson’s advertisers and, well, he doesn’t have any left. Like almost zero. Fox News operates his show at a loss when it comes to ad revenue. They pay for him through carriage fees, which we all pay into through our basic cable packages.

Then I guess it will have to be a general Fox advertiser boycott since they are subsidizing Tucker.
 

demetriosj

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2,081
I wanted to post President Biden's words after the verdict. I admit that I teared up. It is just so calming and reassuring that we have a compassionate President with character and integrity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SVggwO75U
Biden is calming and reassuring? He accused the entire country of being systemically racist and awful. I should say his handlers (Obama, Susan Rice, etc) are feeding him this line of bull and he just repeats it. What a terrible thing to tell the country after the verdict.
 

ballettmaus

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I have no opinion about the four shots but yes they do.
They don't have a taser? They aren't trained in hand-to-hand combat? They haven't learned how to disarm someone in hand-to-hand combat?

i asked my previous neighbour - he trains police officers with Ottawa Police - and I asked why they had to shoot to kill vs wounding. He was very clear on the anwser. They have a duty to protect the public and themselves from harm.
If shooting to kill is the only way the police knows how to protect the public we really do need to defund the police and find another organization that will protect the public.

You and that officer can't tell me that if the girl had been shot into the leg, they would not have been able to keep her from doing any harm. They may have been trained and told these things but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are right.

Knives are much more common as a weapon in other countries because of their strict gun laws and strangely enough, we're not hearing about daily fatal police shooting from those countries. If that is the only way to protect, shouldn't that be the case though? Just today, two men attacked each other with knives in Berlin and no shots were fired even though a total of 20 police officers ended up at the scene. On Sunday, a woman attacked others with a broken glass bottle. No shots were fired in that incident either. A couple of weeks ago, a 17-year-old handled a fake gun in public transport. Police say he acted aggressively, so they threatened him with a taser. No shots were fired.

I sure think that there is too much scrutiny on Berlin police at times, but they also prove every day that you can protect the public without shooting first and asking questions later.

How would you have felt if that knife was so close to you?
I haven't even come close to being in a situation that could escalate to this, so it's impossible for me to answer.
 

Judy

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2,767
They don't have a taser? They aren't trained in hand-to-hand combat? They haven't learned how to disarm someone in hand-to-hand combat?


If shooting to kill is the only way the police knows how to protect the public we really do need to defund the police and find another organization that will protect the public.

You and that officer can't tell me that if the girl had been shot into the leg, they would not have been able to keep her from doing any harm. They may have been trained and told these things but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are right.

Knives are much more common as a weapon in other countries because of their strict gun laws and strangely enough, we're not hearing about daily fatal police shooting from those countries. If that is the only way to protect, shouldn't that be the case though? Just today, two men attacked each other with knives in Berlin and no shots were fired even though a total of 20 police officers ended up at the scene. On Sunday, a woman attacked others with a broken glass bottle. No shots were fired in that incident either. A couple of weeks ago, a 17-year-old handled a fake gun in public transport. Police say he acted aggressively, so they threatened him with a taser. No shots were fired.

I sure think that there is too much scrutiny on Berlin police at times, but they also prove every day that you can protect the public without shooting first and asking questions later.


I haven't even come close to being in a situation that could escalate to this, so it's impossible for me to answer.
They officer had absolutely no time to use a taser .. that knife was seconds away. But keep up with your fantasy.
 

ballettmaus

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16,246
They officer had absolutely no time to use a taser .. that knife was seconds away. But keep up with your fantasy.
You're telling me that he couldn't have pulled a taser instead of a gun and that the impact of the taser into the body wouldn't have distracted a 15-year-old or that he couldn't have shot her not to kill and that that wouldn't have distracted her?

What are the chances that the girl she was about to attack would have been fatally stabbed if police had opted for any other option but shooting to kill? I doubt that those chances are huge and since I doubt that, I'd rather have had two injured girl than one dead. One girl's life wasn't worth more than the other ones.

And again, why are we not hearing about fatal incidents involving knife fights every single day if this is the only way? Why are other police officers able to deal with knife attacks without even firing a shot or a taser?
 

BlueRidge

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Our cable bills are also paying Tucker. We need to have options in our basic cable packages.
Oh yeah, there's a campaign about that: https://unfoxmycablebox.com/?fbclid=IwAR2W8z4XKj3XBl3qI-pfhkV7ZvUkAKjXnxQMuvk2SZhgE_dmBIdSRFZYV1k

Pay for cable or satellite TV? You’re subsidizing Fox News whether you watch it or not.

Your cable or satellite TV provider pays a subscriber fee to carry Fox News. That cost is passed directly on to YOU.

Every network charges cable and satellite providers a small fee per subscriber; the one for Fox News is extraordinarily high. A typical household pays Fox News almost $2 per month—about $20 per year— via their cable or satellite provider, regardless of whether they actually watch the channel.

In 2021, a wave of big contracts between Fox News and TV providers for subscriber fees are set to expire. These contracts make up about 65% if Fox News’ subscriber fee revenue. If we want to stop paying the Fox News “tax,” now is the time to act.
 

MacMadame

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Biden is calming and reassuring? He accused the entire country of being systemically racist and awful.
I can see why that wouldn't be calming or reassuring to racists.

#timesup

If shooting to kill is the only way the police knows how to protect the public we really do need to defund the police and find another organization that will protect the public.

You and that officer can't tell me that if the girl had been shot into the leg, they would not have been able to keep her from doing any harm. They may have been trained and told these things but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are right.
It sounds to me like you have no experience with guns. This whole "shoot them in the leg" idea that many post on social media when something like this happens is a Hollywood fantasy.

First of all, it's very hard to shoot something that is moving. It's actually fairly hard to shoot people even if they aren't moving. Second, shooting people in the leg or arm or whatever doesn't necessarily stop them. Sometimes it enrages them and makes them more dangerous. This is true even if you do manage to get them in the chest. Finally, tasers may be less lethal than guns but they can still be lethal and also they require the shooter to get a lot closer to the victim than a gun would. So they aren't the answer to everything.

This is why gun safety classes teach to shoot at the chest. It goes like this:
-never put your finger on the trigger unless you are prepared to shoot
-never point your gun at anything you aren't prepared to shoot
-if you do shoot, aim for the chest because it's the biggest part of the body and easiest to hit
-keep shooting until the person attacking you stops moving

That said, I don't know if the police needed to shoot this girl or not. The whole situation sounds confusing, I haven't watched any of the body cam footage and I never take the police's word for how it went down because they have been caught lying before.
 

becca

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20,426
No, they don't. And they don't have to shoot to kill and they don't have to shoot four times.

This was a 15-year-old teenager. You can't tell me that officers aren't able to overpower a 15-year-old girl without using lethal force.
I am sorry but that 15 year old was Attacking someone and had multiple opportunities to stand down. This isn’t even the police protecting their own life.

I am thrilled George Floyd got justice but not every police killing is wrong. In this particular case that 15 year old was very close to severely hurting someone else the office might did not have had time to overpower.

i have seen the footage. The other girl backed away and was against the car. She ran toward the girl and was literally mid motion to stab her.
 

Spikefan

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1,120
I always thought, shoot them in the leg too but then heard the explanation @MacMadame gave from someone else and that makes sense. From experts today they said the officer was too close to use a taser. I don’t completely get that as the officer that shot Daunte Wright thought she was using a taser right next to him. Maybe I heard wrong and he was too far?

This case is complex and another person’s life was in danger. If someone were lunging at me with a knife I would want them shot. Yeah, they might not have fatally stabbed me but I don’t want someone thinking that and not stopping them from stabbing me. It just takes one hit to the right artery or organ.

It sounds like these other girls were bullying her so I feel horrible for her. I wish she would have stayed in the house or dropped the knife once the police arrived. Of course we are dealing with teenage emotions. It really is a horrible tragedy.
 

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