Which 6.0 competition should we watch (and judge!) this Saturday, May 30th?

Which 6.0 competition should we watch (and judge!) this Saturday, May 30th?

  • 1976 Olympics ladies LP - old skool!

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • 1994 Olympics mens - hot mess SP and LP, so many meltdowns, so much drama

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • 1998 Worlds ladies - even more of a hot mess SP

    Votes: 12 40.0%
  • 2001 Goodwill Games men - Mike Pike goes for gold

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • 2002 Worlds dance - petitions! crying judges!

    Votes: 6 20.0%
  • 2004 Worlds ladies - the final 6.0 Worlds.

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
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alchemy void

campaigning for Surya's 06 Olympic bronze
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23,231
What competition should we watch and judge this Saturday? I think the watch party will take place at 12pm EDT/7pm CET like past events. Suggestions taken from the judging thread.

Poll expires in two days.

Once the competition is chosen, I'll start a new thread and ask to confirm judges. This will be like previous watch parties--we'll have a pbp thread and watch together, only this time some of us will judge as we go along.

And, of course, if you want to judge the event but can't watch "live", you can watch the competition before or after and submit your marks (deadline TBD, probably no more than a week after). Details on this forthcoming.

Looking forward to it!
 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,292
I'm going to throw in my little spiel here:

1998 Worlds ladies - every single one of the top 24 has both the SP and LP available on YouTube- so the event is much more complete than some of the other choices. The ordinals from the judges themselves were such a hot mess that I really would be the most fascinated to see how this one turns out.
 

skateboy

Well-Known Member
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6,910
I'm up for anything... but I voted for 2001 Goodwill Games men, because I don't remember anything about it (if I even watched it at all).
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,798
I tried and I tried with the 1970 World Ladies Freeskate (aka Hairspray On Ice) but still nothing but purple.

. . . we had all of @floskate's library at our disposal, and still a competition that Michelle Kwan won is the front-runner.
 
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alchemy void

campaigning for Surya's 06 Olympic bronze
Messages
23,231
I tried and I tried with the 1970 World Ladies Freeskate (aka Hairspray On Ice) but still nothing but purple.

. . . we had all of @floskate's library at our disposal, and still a competition that Michelle Kwan won is the front-runner.
Kwan and purple always reign supreme. :lol:

By all means, I strongly encourage someone to organize judging an older obscure event. I think it could be a really interesting experiment. However, while I enjoy watching older performances in isolation, I don't have much interest in judging/watching an entire competition from that era, don't know enough about the rules, and wouldn't even know how to calculate scoring. That's just my personal preference, and since I'm taking the time to organize and compile results I want to judge an event I'm invested and interested in. :) But like I said before, that doesn't stop anyone from organizing their own event.
 

floskate

Vacant
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9,622
I'm sorry but I'm way too busy to organise an old school judging comp. I would have happily uploaded some footage but not a problem if there isn't the interest.
 

gkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,196
The good thing about trying to judge an old freeskating competition under 6.0 is that there weren't really written rules (at least not publicly available ones) telling you in detail how to rank the skaters. Judges just needed to rank them based on everything they knew about what was considered "good skating."

Yes, it would be useful to know what was forbidden and therefore subject to deductions at the time. Especially for ice dance.

In free skates, the deductions were all about rule violations. I suspect that applying deductions did not often override judges' general sense of overall quality.

What would likely have made more of a difference in judges rankings would be a sense of overall quality of the skating in terms of the way the skaters moved across the ice. And that's is something that doesn't come through very well on video compared to the live experience.

So if we disagree with pretty much the whole panel after watching a freeskate on video, it's more likely that a skater who looked good on video was more obviously slow or scratchy etc. in real life, or a less aesthetically pleasing skater on camera was effortlessly powerful in real life, than that there was a time deduction or the wrong number of jump combinations or something like that. Those deductions were considerations, but I don't know how often they were dealbreakers.



For short programs, deductions based on quality of execution were an important issue. However, in many cases it would be easy enough to find what were the exact requirements at the time and what were the mandatory deductions. I'm sure I could track them down for the mid-1990s through the end of 6.0.
 

alchemy void

campaigning for Surya's 06 Olympic bronze
Messages
23,231
For short programs, deductions based on quality of execution were an important issue. However, in many cases it would be easy enough to find what were the exact requirements at the time and what were the mandatory deductions. I'm sure I could track them down for the mid-1990s through the end of 6.0.
If you have the chance to hunt the requirements down, that would be amazing. :) I was planning to look on SkateWeb, or worst case scenario, RSSIF.
 

gkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,196
As has been mentioned earlier, there were changes during that period as to the jump requirements -- when women were allowed and later required to do triples as the jump out of steps, and when they were allowed to do triple-triple combinations.

There were also big changes in the 1999 season allowing men to do triple axel as the solo axel and quad as the solo jump. Quad combinations weren't allowed in the SP until I believe 2000-2001.

So you'd need to reference a specific year for whether deductions would apply if a lady did a double as the jump out of steps. Otherwise, there would be no deductions required if a skater met the minimum requirement but didn't take advantage of the legality of doing more. However, it would affect the base value of the program as a whole. Exactly how to set the base value and to reflect the jump difficulty was up to the individual judges.

SP spin requirements changed in 1995 season and have remained pretty much the same through the end of 6.0. (And until today, aside from women now having a choice of the solo spin position which is no longer required to be layback, and the fact that there are levels available for various features.)

*Combination spin with one change of foot and at least two changes of position (minimum 6 revolutions on each foot)
*Flying spin, no change of foot (minimum 8 revolutions in position)
*Ladies: Layback or sideways leaning foot spin, no change of foot (minimum 8 revolutions in position)
*Men: Camel spin or sitspin with one change of foot (minimum 6 revolutions on each foot)

Between 1989 and 1994, the men's third spin requirement changed a few times.

Men's SPs required two step sequences of different shapes (straight line, circular, or serpentine), and women's required one step sequence and a spiral sequence.

There were some specific requirements for the spiral sequence, but IIRC the most that was required pre-IJS was inclusion of spirals on both feet and both forward and backward, but no requirements as to how long each position was held.

Prior to 1989, there were specific requirements for each element, which changed every year.
 
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kwanatic

Well-Known Member
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2,704
I voted for 1998 worlds. I don't remember a ton of what happened in that competition now that I think about it..only that Michelle won which was all that mattered. :D

I will be honest, my knowledge of 6.0 scoring isn't nearly as strong as my IJS knowledge. I didn't start watching skating with a technical eye until around 2000 or 2001. We switched to IJS in 2005 so in all honesty I've been watching skating under IJS waaay longer. I feel more confident in my ability to judge objectively under that system.

For that reason I'd like to nominate myself as a judge for IJS competitions--singles events only. I just recently started watching pairs and dance so I don't know nearly enough to judge those events with any kind of objective competency.
 

alchemy void

campaigning for Surya's 06 Olympic bronze
Messages
23,231
For that reason I'd like to nominate myself as a judge for IJS competitions--singles events only. I just recently started watching pairs and dance so I don't know nearly enough to judge those events with any kind of objective competency.
Awesome, thanks! We're definitely doing an IJS singles event next, provided this isn't a complete disaster. :lol:
 
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