When Nicky and Simon misstep, they misstep.

miffy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,891
I think Chris and Louise work well together, and Eurosport have previously used Mark too. They hadn’t used Nicky for ages. The second I heard that Simon and Nicky were doing the ISU feed I knew it would be terrible; as others have said they need a Chris (or Mark) who really are in technik to save them.
I don’t think Eurosport will fire Simon but I doubt he will commentate for skating again after all this criticism of his commentary has now become so public. I know we’ve all joked about it on here for a long time, but as the rules keep changing he falls more and more behind. He got away with it on Eurosport but on a worldwide feed this was bound to happen, and having Nicky along as well was ridiculous, even Simon alone would have been better. Nicky adds nothing of substance. He’s so out of touch it’s insulting to use him.
 

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
493
No one has yet to answer my questions on the pairs thread:

  • what exactly triggered Nicky & Simon to make the TBFC comment

Probably mostly lack of consequences they’ve faced for decades of misogyny?

  • ; and
  • how did everyone seem to know immediately their comments were directed at Meagan, when they didn't even say her name?

They referenced tweets, a coach for one of the pairs teams, and Canada, which was enough to add up.

I will also add the question of whether someone with a 40-year career who apologizes within 24 hours for a "private" comment can be forgiven. Or does cancel culture not permit any chance of redemption for a big mistake?

Forgiveness is fine, but there’s no good reason to employ people who are wildly incompetent when there are plenty of other options available. Maybe if they’d ever bothered to get good at their jobs instead of coasting on the free ride society has given gross old men for way too long, people would be more interested in giving them another chance.
 

upnights

Member
Messages
49
The proper place for commentary is while the skater isn't skating. Doing it doing the video repeat makes the most sense, but commercial broadcasters would prefer to sell at least some of that time to advertisers.
Since we pay for Peacock, we should have the option of a commentary-free stream. I don’t think that would cost Peacock any extra. I hate having someone chatting during the skating. Ted Barton always was able to say everything he needed to say during the replay. The ISU must have told him he had to talk throughout for Worlds, even during gala programs. Now he’s become annoying.
People casually watching on TV might need commentary. Fans who pay for streams or who know to access the ISU stream know how to get any information they need from the tech box. Having a commentary-free option would also yield data on how many fans actually want the commentary.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,215
When I was really into skating and had everything on dvd and vhs, I could remember the number of programs each network aired for every event. So, whenever contracts switched to another network and posters either cheered or sneered because of whatever commentator, my post about the new network will result in 1 or 2 more/less programs fell on deaf ears.

The thing is, what streaming service would ABC FOX OR CBS put skating on?

In short, quantity over quality.
Every network seems to have 2-3 apps now. It’s hard to keep track these days (and it’s getting expensive!) ABC has ESPN and it’s own streaming apps plus Disney+. Fox has its streaming apps including a sports one. Disney+ owns 21st Century Fox and Fox Searchlight but not Fox television or news or sports networks. CBS has Paramount plus and a CBS sports app. For a few seasons, skating used to be on NBC’s sports app but they switched it to Peacock (equivalent to Paramount+ for CBS and Disney+ for ABC).

You do bring a good point about NBC having positives. A good thing about NBC having skating is that they have an Olympic contract and a vested interest in being identified with the Olympics as part of their brand, so I do think NBC had more commitment to make sure fans have access to whole competitions of Olympic sports and skating is a premier Olympic sport.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
12,574
Since we pay for Peacock, we should have the option of a commentary-free stream. I don’t think that would cost Peacock any extra. I hate having someone chatting during the skating. Ted Barton always was able to say everything he needed to say during the replay. The ISU must have told him he had to talk throughout for Worlds, even during gala programs. Now he’s become annoying.
People casually watching on TV might need commentary. Fans who pay for streams or who know to access the ISU stream know how to get any information they need from the tech box. Having a commentary-free option would also yield data on how many fans actually want the commentary.
Peacock is not figure skating-exclusive nor does NBC want it to be. They make plenty of money showing a lot of NBC shows the day after and having the rights to big shows like The Office. It's also either $5 a month or $10 without any commercials, but commercial breaks are really for the streaming shows that otherwise would have no interruptions, not for live skating events. We've been lucky that only the Olympics have had commercials thrown in after the skater was done, but I don't recall commercials for any other event.

In short, Peacock is going to take whatever stream is given to them. It's not Ice Network, it's never marketed itself as such, figure skating fandom is such a small part of their audience that they aren't going to make huge adjustments based on a few comments. And it seems most skating fans only have it for the skating months, anyways. (ETA that I don't think any specific kind of feed was promised, just coverage of a list of events every season)
 
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Judy

Well-Known Member
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4,258
During TBFC exchange, they chuckled about not mentioning her as one of the coaches of the Japanese pair team.
That’s how I eventually figured it out too.

Realisically I don’t think Kaitlyn can do the tshirts but I’d still like one lol.
 

Prancer

Aun Aprendo
Staff member
Messages
52,725
I will also add the question of whether someone with a 40-year career who apologizes within 24 hours for a "private" comment can be forgiven. Or does cancel culture not permit any chance of redemption for a big mistake?
I am struggling mightily to swallow my hatred of the incredibly stupid and meaningless term "cancel culture" here, so bear with me.

Duhamel may or may not have been unprofessional to make her tweet, but the two commentators in question were incompetent at the actual job they were hired to do, which was comment on figure skating. Perhaps doing it for 40 years has led to complacency. When you haven't kept up on the sport (and admit to it on the air because you don't understand what is happening) and you make inappropriate remarks about female athletes, you don't have a lot of room to complain about the unprofessional behavior of someone else.
 

mtnskater

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Messages
2,366
One thing I appreciate about the British commentators is their best-in-class impartiality and lack of obvious conflicts of interest. In the rare case there is a conflict of interest, it's openly disclosed. I feel like some standards of journalistic integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are upheld.

North American commentators have promoted "reality show" figure skating for a long time, and it only seems to be getting worse. They are are by and large cheerleaders for the home team without even a pretense of objectivity. Conflicts of interest, like being the choreographer for the program, are never mentioned. The presenter, if any, eggs on the shenanigans rather than arbitrates or adds objectivity. There nothing journalistic or sportsmanlike about most of the commentary. Ragging on your rivals on twitter fits right in.

I'm surprised, but then again not surprised, that people don't appreciate how unethical Duhamel's behavior was. Twitter is not the appropriate venue for her comments. She is a paid TV commentator, not a random person. Can't stick IMHO after this one and make it go away. Duhamel needs to decide whether she wants to be a journalist or a fan. Her twitter is wildly inappropriate for anyone in a paid commentary position.
:huh: I have never ever considered the color commentary “journalists”. As far as I know none of them have journalism degrees. Most are former stars in their sports, usually World or Olympic medalists. Some have no college degrees. I’ve always though their job was to inform, express their opinions and add some life to the event. Skaters who have been on their country’s World or Olympic teams are probably going to continue to root to some extent for their fellow countrymen. Why is that offensive? Most people do tend to root for the home team though they may be big fans of other athletes from other countries. That certainly describes me. I see that as natural and okay. Rooting for the home team makes sports fun. Look at football and baseball here or soccer in Europe. The U.S. commentators really gush about plenty of other skaters not from the US, so it seems balanced enough for me. I’m not expecting them to be journalists. Phil Hersh and Christine Brennan yes. Tara, Johnny, Terry and Tanith nope.
 

Lil Sarah

Active Member
Messages
341
No one has yet to answer my questions on the pairs thread:

  • what exactly triggered Nicky & Simon to make the TBFC comment; and
  • how did everyone seem to know immediately their comments were directed at Meagan, when they didn't even say her name?

I will also add the question of whether someone with a 40-year career who apologizes within 24 hours for a "private" comment can be forgiven.
Meagan tweeted: "The ISU YouTube feed commentator said it was sad the Russians aren’t at Worlds ……. And then admitted they don’t watch skating often so they “aren’t sure” about jump rotation. Um. There are better options ISU!"

Which I believe is totally fair for her to say. Many reporters and commentators call each other out on Twitter ALL THE TIME.

They also referenced her by saying they didn't mention she was one of the coaches of the team (Japan)

As for if it can be forgiven.... if that was there only issue - on a personal level, maybe. But they also commented about how the women looked, their heights, their weights, tons of inappropriate things. It's not like they were doing amazing before the comment.



As for those who think the Russians should be there, the whole point is Putin LOVES sports and the athletes are part of the government as they are funding pretty much all of their training and accommodations. There were many coaches and athletes who went to the pro-Putin pro-War rally (but not all of them, so maybe it wasn't mandatory). Could you imagine having to be on the same ice as people who WANT your country invaded and killing hundreds of innocent people
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,142
One thing I appreciate about the British commentators is their best-in-class impartiality and lack of obvious conflicts of interest. In the rare case there is a conflict of interest, it's openly disclosed. I feel like some standards of journalistic integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are upheld.

North American commentators have promoted "reality show" figure skating for a long time, and it only seems to be getting worse. They are are by and large cheerleaders for the home team without even a pretense of objectivity. Conflicts of interest, like being the choreographer for the program, are never mentioned. The presenter, if any, eggs on the shenanigans rather than arbitrates or adds objectivity. There nothing journalistic or sportsmanlike about most of the commentary. Ragging on your rivals on twitter fits right in.

I'm surprised, but then again not surprised, that people don't appreciate how unethical Duhamel's behavior was. Twitter is not the appropriate venue for her comments. She is a paid TV commentator, not a random person. Can't stick IMHO after this one and make it go away. Duhamel needs to decide whether she wants to be a journalist or a fan. Her twitter is wildly inappropriate for anyone in a paid commentary position.
That Duhamel's brand is linked with TSL makes it even more so.
 

Barbara Manatee

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,871
One thing I appreciate about the British commentators is their best-in-class impartiality and lack of obvious conflicts of interest. In the rare case there is a conflict of interest, it's openly disclosed. I feel like some standards of journalistic integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are upheld.
Hardly. As a Davis/White uber I vividly remember the British Eurosport commentator at 2013 Worlds declaring that Virtue/Moir were his favorites and he was disappointed that they made mistakes and the Americans didn't.
 

puglover

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,435
That Duhamel's brand is linked with TSL makes it even more so.
Many credible high profile people in skating have also been on TSL, so if that is a negative, she is certainly in good company. I have enjoyed Meagan on TSL and I think she is sought after because she is knowledgeable and not afraid to call a spade a spade. After the Olympics I enjoyed her conversation on a show hosted by Adam's mother, Kelly Rippon, where they discussed in detail every pair element and what the challenges are.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,638
Meagan tweeted: "The ISU YouTube feed commentator said it was sad the Russians aren’t at Worlds ……. And then admitted they don’t watch skating often so they “aren’t sure” about jump rotation. Um. There are better options ISU!"

Which I believe is totally fair for her to say. Many reporters and commentators call each other out on Twitter ALL THE TIME.

They also referenced her by saying they didn't mention she was one of the coaches of the team (Japan)

As for if it can be forgiven.... if that was there only issue - on a personal level, maybe. But they also commented about how the women looked, their heights, their weights, tons of inappropriate things. It's not like they were doing amazing before the comment.



As for those who think the Russians should be there, the whole point is Putin LOVES sports and the athletes are part of the government as they are funding pretty much all of their training and accommodations. There were many coaches and athletes who went to the pro-Putin pro-War rally (but not all of them, so maybe it wasn't mandatory). Could you imagine having to be on the same ice as people who WANT your country invaded and killing hundreds of innocent people
I’m pretty sure Russia wouldn’t even have been allowed to be said anyway no? No Russians were actually competing for Russia anyway. And is this going to last forever now or will there be official isu forgiveness eventually?
 
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Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,258
Many credible high profile people in skating have also been on TSL, so if that is a negative, she is certainly in good company. I have enjoyed Meagan on TSL and I think she is sought after because she is knowledgeable and not afraid to call a spade a spade. After the Olympics I enjoyed her conversation on a show hosted by Adam's mother, Kelly Rippon, where they discussed in detail every pair element and what the challenges are.
I think everyone has been on TSL.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
33,001
What triggered Simon and Nicky was a woman publicly pointing out the factual mistakes in their commentary. Why else would they use a gendered insult like "bitch"?

And if that's what they said during one moment when they thought the mics were off, I can only imagine what they might be saying about other women the rest of the time.

If that's how they think it's appropriate to describe women in 2022, good riddance to both of them. I won't feel too sorry if they never get work on-air again.
 

alj5

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,544
Nicky & Simon are awful. You woud never know that Nicky used to be a competitive skater based on his lack of knowledge of of the sport.

I vote Hanretty and Belbin as the main people, with Ben Agosto and Brooke Castile as backups.
 

upnights

Member
Messages
49
Peacock is not figure skating-exclusive nor does NBC want it to be. They make plenty of money showing a lot of NBC shows the day after and having the rights to big shows like The Office. It's also either $5 a month or $10 without any commercials, but commercial breaks are really for the streaming shows that otherwise would have no interruptions, not for live skating events. We've been lucky that only the Olympics have had commercials thrown in after the skater was done, but I don't recall commercials for any other event.

In short, Peacock is going to take whatever stream is given to them. It's not Ice Network, it's never marketed itself as such, figure skating fandom is such a small part of their audience that they aren't going to make huge adjustments based on a few comments. And it seems most skating fans only have it for the skating months, anyways. (ETA that I don't think any specific kind of feed was promised, just coverage of a list of events every season)
I think it may have been fan requests that led Peacock to show practice sessions from the Olympics. During the Olympics, there was the option of the regular commentary-free stream or the TV version with commentary for some portions. There is a commentary-free stream available to NBC because that’s what Tara & Johnny talk on top of, so I doubt it would cost much or be difficult to add the option for Peacock.
I may start a campaign to get that option. Companies, particularly media companies that are not making the money they used to, do not thrive by ignoring customer suggestions.
 

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