When and how should we open schools?

million$momma

Well-Known Member
Messages
402
I just spoke with one of the neighbors who teaches at a private school in Virginia. It sounds like they're organized much better than my mom's school. They reconfigured rooms to accomdate spaced-apart desks (they're using common areas and the cafeteria, for example), students eat lunch at their desks, everyone is wearing masks and teachers are encouraged to hold classes outside. The only negative is that they have rooms without windows.





How many schools with how many teachers and students? How much protective equipment has to be bought? How many laptops have to be bought? What else to they have to do in order to accomodate online learning? Are there schools that go back in person and if so, do they have to hire additional teachers because they have to shrink classroom sizes and are there adjustments to the classrooms that they have to make (like enlarge the room, reconfigure rooms, upgrade the A/C etc).
At my Ontario elementary school the teachers have been provided a 2 months supply of medical masks, a face shield, and the office has plexiglass. Each classroom has 2 large bottles of hand sanitizer (we have been told this is for the year...as each classroom has a sink). There are one way and social distancing stickers on the floor. The water fountains have been covered. Carpets, bean bag chairs and anything with a fabric surface have been removed from the classroom. Desks have been arranged so the students are as far from each other as possible. Recesses are half the school at a time. Extra hallway monitors have been hired to monitor bathrooms and halls during class time and 1 extra part time custodian is being provided but has not been hired yet (school starts Monday).

This is it. Everything else is the same. Full classrooms. No tech in the school because it is all in the community with the distance learners.
 

flyingsit

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,243
My niece and nephew are finishing up their third week of in-person school today. They go to private schools in Chicago, and neither of their schools has had a CV case. Masks and distancing are required, they eat lunch at their desks, etc. School requires a negative test after any health-related absence.
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,306
Springboro Schools was notified of a confirmed case of *********-19 involving “a Springboro High School (SHS) team,” according to an update from the Warren County health commissioner, Superintendent Larry Hook and District Nurse Bronwyn Patterson.
The update did not specify which team at the high school, but did state the confirmed case did not involve a classroom.
“Thanks to a proactive response by the student and our district staff, the high school student was not at SHS (Springboro High School), nor in any classroom, this entire week,” the officials said.

INITIAL REPORT
Springboro Schools was notified of a confirmed case of *********-19 and has notified families of students who have been on school, buses, in classrooms, groups or on a team.

“If you have not received a separate “Notification of Exposure” letter from the district, your student was NOT EXPOSED [sic],” according to the note sent out Thursday evening from Warren County Health Commissioner Duane Stansbury, Superintendent Larry Hook and District Nurse Bronwyn Patterson.
Sept. 8 through Sept. 11 is phase-in week in the district.
The school system, in coordination with the Warren County Health District, is working to provide a low-risk environment for students and staff, the notification said.
According to the CDC, a single case of *********-19 will not likely warrant closing the entire school, Stansbury, Hook and Patterson said in the notification.

^%^%^%^

HUBER HEIGHTS, Ohio (WKEF/WRGT) -- Wayne High School football is the latest school to feel the effects of the ******** *********, as a football coach has tested positive for the *********-19 *****.

As part of Huber Heights City Schools' protocol, it conducted contact tracing and identified one additional staff member and a student who are now needing to quarantine, for what the district says is a precautionary measure.

Those staff and student will be quarantined for 14 days, a letter sent to school district families states.

$%$%$%%$%
Miamisburg's first game against Northmont tonight. Northmont had a couple staff cases in July and August.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
677
One of our high schools switched to online learning today due to the hazardous amount of smoke in the air from the wildfires. Parents are complaining on Facebook that it's just an excuse because the teachers don't want to teach due to fear of C V. A teacher responded that (a) it was a decision made by administrators not teachers and (b) teachers would prefer to teach in person as online instruction is way more work and (c) that with the required open classroom windows and students required to eat lunch outside, the smoke level was dangerous for the students. Parents still not convinced. :wall:
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,306
Well, Miamisburg played Northmont last week, before our school even started. Tonight's game against Springboro has been postponed because a student athlete there tested positive yesterday. It didn't say whether Springboro would be postponing next week's game too, but more dominoes just for football.

UD is back down to Level 3. Some in-person classes will start next Wednesday, with smaller classes, social distancing and cleaning. They had 21 new cases yesterday. The peak was 150. I'm thinking they won't know the consequences of Labor Day for another week.

Wright State reported 13 students and 1 employee positive today.
 

PrincessLeppard

Holding Alex Johnson's Pineapple
Messages
27,024
Actually I believe private schools doing plexiglass. I would have liked to see it in all the schools. Stay safe!

You'd think part of that trillion dollar bail out could've been spent on schools and safety equipment, but....

@concorde All grades count here now, whether the kids are remote or not. But we are currently in school full time. So far, so good. A few kids out with positive cases, but we'll see what happens after the Labor Day numbers are in.

Also our stupid governor just lifted all restrictions. This might be fine out in some rural areas, but Omaha has an 11.3% positive rate and rising.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,346
I just spoke with one of the neighbors who teaches at a private school in Virginia. It sounds like they're organized much better than my mom's school. They reconfigured rooms to accomdate spaced-apart desks (they're using common areas and the cafeteria, for example), students eat lunch at their desks, everyone is wearing masks and teachers are encouraged to hold classes outside. The only negative is that they have rooms without windows.





How many schools with how many teachers and students? How much protective equipment has to be bought? How many laptops have to be bought? What else to they have to do in order to accomodate online learning? Are there schools that go back in person and if so, do they have to hire additional teachers because they have to shrink classroom sizes and are there adjustments to the classrooms that they have to make (like enlarge the room, reconfigure rooms, upgrade the A/C etc).
The only protective equipment is masks, sanitizer. The classrooms remain the same size and amount of students. Chrome books are what students have been provided with but
You'd think part of that trillion dollar bail out could've been spent on schools and safety equipment, but....

@concorde All grades count here now, whether the kids are remote or not. But we are currently in school full time. So far, so good. A few kids out with positive cases, but we'll see what happens after the Labor Day numbers are in.

Also our stupid governor just lifted all restrictions. This might be fine out in some rural areas, but Omaha has an 11.3% positive rate and rising.
Yeah that is not good. I think a lot of the teachers are wearing the plastic glass shields with a mask underneath but that would be personal choice. My city’s numbers have risen quite a bit so we are considered in an orange zone In Ottawa, Ontario.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
28,273
@SkateSand All these plans for teaching outside are great - definitely safer for all than being in an enclosed space for hours - but I'm amazed that there don't seem to be a lot of contingency plans for bad weather. In the Pacific Northwest, as we know, it rains a lot in the fall and winter - not to mention getting colder - and it's kind of scary to think of what's going to happen if kids and teachers have to be inside instead.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,749
My kids start remote school this week and start hybrid Sept 28. The school's hybrid model involves splitting the grade into 2 cohorts (A/B), with 1 cohort doing M-Th mornings in the building while the other does remote, then switching.

Our girls will be in-person every week on M-Th mornings. They're assigned to what Massachusetts calls cohort C, for kids who need more help or lack decent home education setups. We assume they're in C because one of them has reading/writing disability and is on an IEP. Being in cohort C raises the risk, because they'll be exposed to both groups A and B. But we feel like the benefits of being in-person may be worth it. For kids on remote learning, their school is expecting them to be working full-time from 8:30-3:30 on Chromebooks--which I think would be a challenge to implement. Right now, I'm feeling grateful that they'll be able to be in school a lot, to break up that Chromebook time.

This summer was the longest summer we've had since they started school (a full 3 months), and we tried to keep up their skills with some math, reading, spelling, and history work, but it's been hard and we haven't been able to do as much as I wanted, especially in math. I am looking forward to having some support again from professionals. Nervous about them starting 6th grade, with lots more academic expectations and at a new school, but hoping for a good experience.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,506
The very local weekly newspaper had an article yesterday about a group of approximately 75 kids deciding to celebrate Senior Day by gathering on the high school campus and posing for group pictures. There were no masks and no social distancing. When spotted by the security cameras they were asked to leave, which they did without incident. The school principal expressed his disappointment. The superintendent of schools admitted there would be no disciplinary action since the students hadn't violated the official handbook of conduct.

On the other hand, the opening of school (scheduled for Sept. 22, which is much later than a New York district usually opens) may have to be delayed. And conversations must be held with the students to explain to them how their actions could affect so many others.

I'm sure the kids are nice and I really doubt any of them have CV19. But this kind of young adult recklessness is causing so many problems on college campuses, and there's no reason to believe high school students are going to be more mature than students a year or two older than them.

I also wonder what if anything the parents of these high school seniors knew and how much responsibility they're willing to take for the behavior of their children.
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
Messages
50,294
For kids on remote learning, their school is expecting them to be working full-time from 8:30-3:30 on Chromebooks
This, for me, one of the two biggest problems with remote learning. Standards can be set as high or low as the school system wants them to be; content delivery can be adapted. But parking kids in front of computers for hours on end is inhumane and counterproductive.

Yeah, they can play video games for hours on end. Does anyone think that's a good thing?

I have no idea what the solution is, other than expecting parents to continue bearing the brunt, but it's definitely a problem.

In any case, I hope your daughters have a good experience, @clairecloutier :).
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
Messages
3,759
Schools have been open (or not depends on the district) for up to 4 weeks in Texas. Seems to be going fine so far. Many school districts have included ********* trackers on their website so one can check case #s by campus. High Schools seem to be having the hardest time, but lower level schools have done okay. It probably helps that a sizeable percentage of students have chosen to do virtual so class sizes are smaller for those attending face-to-face.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,506
Schools throughout America are dealing with complicated issues involving opening.

For example, Wilson is a board member of Worthington Schools, located north of Columbus, Ohio. His district and Columbus Schools are under one health department, but other schools in the same county answer to a different health department. One department recommended it’s safe for schools to hold sports, the other says it’s unsafe, Wilson said.

“We thought we could take cues from our local health department, and that would provide stability,” he said. “But the public health department changes its recommendations – often when there’s been no change in the trends for positive (*********-19) tests.”
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,672
Schools throughout America are dealing with complicated issues involving opening.

For example, Wilson is a board member of Worthington Schools, located north of Columbus, Ohio. His district and Columbus Schools are under one health department, but other schools in the same county answer to a different health department. One department recommended it’s safe for schools to hold sports, the other says it’s unsafe, Wilson said.

“We thought we could take cues from our local health department, and that would provide stability,” he said. “But the public health department changes its recommendations – often when there’s been no change in the trends for positive (*********-19) tests.”
That part of the sports issue here. The largest school district is not having fall sports. Parents are desperately trying to transfer their athlete student to school districts playing sports. Even to the point of buying a second house in the other district.
But football games are being canceled because of C-19 illnesses in football playets.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
36,436
Some articles on opening up schools:


 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,786
The closest local community here with face-to-face instruction is also closed Monday because of smoke. My understanding is that 5 communities in the state that have met the required health metrics opened school buildings last Monday.

It's been a regular nightmare of a first week of school here in Oregon, with 10% of the state under evacuation order and 5 or 6 towns destroyed. A number of virtual schools were also closed due to downed power lines & systems.

We are all praying for rain.
 

OlieRow

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,758
I think that considering the times, this headline is somewhat inflammatory. Yes, she died from YKW and yes, she attended school for in-person teacher training. But the school district started out the year with virtual learning and she taught from home.
Agreed but she also had a "leap day" where incoming students were in the classroom as well. It's so hard to know where she could have gotten it. One of my friends teaches in a nearby district to hers and virtual teachers are required to come into the school to teach virtually. My friend teaches in person M-Th and virtually on F and is required to be at the school all 5 days. It makes no sense...

Gotta love the local news articles about the teacher's death and people asking what underlying conditions she had. From looking at the pictures with the articles she was obviously obese but she's 28 and healthy enough to hold a full time job. She died from ********* not some underlying condition. :rolleyes:
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,786
Universities & schools in the Spokane area are also closing all their in-person classes on Monday due to smoke.

My guess is that if colleges like Whitworth, Gonzaga, and WSU all have in-person classes cancelled, it's probably the same for schools throughout Washington & Oregon.

The ***** stinks, but at least we have always been able to go outside here. These hazardous smoke-levels are awful! (Looks like "unhealthy" air quality has spread through a lot of Idaho & up into southern B.C.)
 

ballettmaus

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14,668
Gotta love the local news articles about the teacher's death and people asking what underlying conditions she had. From looking at the pictures with the articles she was obviously obese but she's 28 and healthy enough to hold a full time job. She died from ********* not some underlying condition. :rolleyes:
Yeah, obesity puts her at a higher risk to getting it severely but there's still a 99.999999...% chance that she'd be alive today had she not gotten it.
 

CantALoop

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Messages
2,596
Gotta love the local news articles about the teacher's death and people asking what underlying conditions she had. From looking at the pictures with the articles she was obviously obese but she's 28 and healthy enough to hold a full time job. She died from ********* not some underlying condition. :rolleyes:
It's disgusting how people/trolls victim-blame and try to blame everything but the real issue that caused someone to die to defend their political agenda. It's just like how whenever a black person is killed from excessive force or police brutality, these people try to dig up something how they once talked back to their teacher in third grade as if that justifies their death.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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14,662
Without excusing any rude or insensitive comments, I think it is important to know the full details in this situation.

The death is tragic, and we all want to prevent future deaths like this. However, the solution may be to shield particularly high-risk teachers, v. to keep school remote for everyone, which also has dire and tragic consequences for society.

It is important to distinguish whether 28-year-old healthy people with no predictable risk factors are (routinely) dropping dead, or whether obese diabetics with other serious and predictable health issues are dropping dead. We don't know the facts and can't know the facts without an autopsy. To be fair, we probably also need contact tracing history as well. (I don't think it's the case in this instance, but would people on this board be crying over a teacher who went to an indoor Trump rally, for instance?)

If we can predict with high certainty who is at most risk, we can re-open schools while protecting teachers. I can't accept, based on anecdotal evidence and without detailed medical history, that one or a few teachers' deaths is an unmanageable risk that requires 57 million students not to be in school.
 

skatfan

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Messages
4,886
Without excusing any rude or insensitive comments, I think it is important to know the full details in this situation.

The death is tragic, and we all want to prevent future deaths like this. However, the solution may be to shield particularly high-risk teachers, v. to keep school remote for everyone, which also has dire and tragic consequences for society.

It is important to distinguish whether 28-year-old healthy people with no predictable risk factors are (routinely) dropping dead, or whether obese diabetics with other serious and predictable health issues are dropping dead. We don't know the facts and can't know the facts without an autopsy. To be fair, we probably also need contact tracing history as well. (I don't think it's the case in this instance, but would people on this board be crying over a teacher who went to an indoor Trump rally, for instance?)

If we can predict with high certainty who is at most risk, we can re-open schools while protecting teachers. I can't accept, based on anecdotal evidence and without detailed medical history, that one or a few teachers' deaths is an unmanageable risk that requires 57 million students not to be in school.
Its not only death Louis. Statistics are showing A much higher percentage of folks are getting long term chronic illness because this disease attacks the blood vessels. I guess I’m with the teachers and staff in not wanting to risk serious chronic illness until we know more. Until you volunteer at a school I’m not taking you seriously.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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36,436
We also can't re-open schools in parts of the country where cases are so high that just going out and interacting with people outside your household is risky. Unfortunately, there are still some parts of the US like that. If your positivity rate is 10% or higher and your R0 is well over 1 (i.e., the 2.5 that we saw in many places), that's just not worth it IMO because the cases will go up exponentially like they did in March when we had similar numbers. We are still not in a place where we know enough about who is and is not at risk and where we have effective treatments to mitigate that risk either.

On the plus side, we are in a much better place than we were in March. We do have more understanding of how to treat this disease and how it is spread. And we do have places, even in the clusterf*ck that is the US, where the R0 is dropping even below 1 and the positivity rate is dropping even below 5%, even approaching the 1% that I personally think is reasonable to basically open everything back up (but with precautions).

I do see some schools being able to re-open soon and I think that most schools in places with good stats will be able to re-open once flu season is over. And I do think that there will be a lot of states in that bucket come Spring.

I also am hopeful that at some point we'll have a better idea of who is really at risk and how high the risk is for people in a low-risk group. I think we need that before people will feel comfortable doing more than they do right now.

Something I think that the "open everything up" people don't get is that this isn't like the flu in that no one dies from the flu if they don't have underlying conditions. With this disease, people who you think could completely survive -- young, elite athletes without underlying conditions that we know about anyway, get struck down by it. And we still don't know why. This is going to impact people's risk assessment because you have an enormous unknown in there.

The other thing that people who aren't parents don't seem to get is that risk assessment for your children when you are a parent is very different than risk assessment for yourself. There are lots of things we are willing to do that we are not willing to let our kids do and lots of risks that might seem acceptable to ourselves that seem unacceptable when it comes to our kids. This is not necessarily based on reason either. (Though sometimes it is, of course.) Being a lot more risk-averse when it comes to our young children has to be factored into the equation.

This is why some schools that are "open" having less than 30% of their school population attending classes in person IMO. Whether they are correct in their assessment or not, those parents aren't going to risk sending their kids to school.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
677
If we can predict with high certainty who is at most risk, we can re-open schools while protecting teachers. I can't accept, based on anecdotal evidence and without detailed medical history, that one or a few teachers' deaths is an unmanageable risk that requires 57 million students not to be in school.
One of the school districts here is on a hybrid in person classes/online teaching program. Parents were asking why they couldn't go back to a regular five day a week in person classes program, and the district responded that 10 to 15% of the teachers were high-risk so they would not be able to currently return to five day a week in person classes. If this district is short on teaching staff, I suspect that's true elsewhere as well.
 

ballettmaus

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Messages
14,668
Its not only death Louis. Statistics are showing A much higher percentage of folks are getting long term chronic illness because this disease attacks the blood vessels. I guess I’m with the teachers and staff in not wanting to risk serious chronic illness until we know more. Until you volunteer at a school I’m not taking you seriously.
We also don't know who the healthy individuals who die anyway. I don't know if the statistic Trumpists cited a couple of weeks ago is true but if it is then something around 6% of those who died didn't have pre-existing conditions. Sounds like a low number but no one knows who and why and I have no desire to find out if I am one of those 6%.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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36,436
We also don't know who the healthy individuals who die anyway. I don't know if the statistic Trumpists cited a couple of weeks ago is true but if it is then something around 6% of those who died didn't have pre-existing conditions. Sounds like a low number but no one knows who and why and I have no desire to find out if I am one of those 6%.
6% is pretty high for "hey, you'll get it anyway for no reason we can see."

I do think we'll eventually know the reason or at least get better at predicting who gets it and who dies from it and who gets to be a long-hauler. But until the number who get it bad who we would never have predicted it beforehand gets somewhere under 1%, I'm not interested in putting my life at risk unless it's really important.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
22,732
We also don't know who the healthy individuals who die anyway. I don't know if the statistic Trumpists cited a couple of weeks ago is true but if it is then something around 6% of those who died didn't have pre-existing conditions. Sounds like a low number but no one knows who and why and I have no desire to find out if I am one of those 6%.
That 6% has nothing to do with pre-existing conditions. The 6% are people who have NOTHING but YKW on their death certificates. Most likely YKW isn’t going to kill you by sitting around being YKW. Most people who die from YKW will die from respiratory distress or something like that which might be secondary to pneumonia for example which would be caused by YKW. So the death certificate would have 3 things on it: respiratory distress, pneumonia, and YKW. But that doesn’t mean they had a pre-existing condition of respiratory distress or pneumonia. YKW caused both of those things. But they wouldn’t be counted in that 6% who only have YKW on their death certificate.

Complicating conditions (like diabetes or high blood pressure) are ALSO listed on the death certificate, but that’s along with all conditions that led directly to death.

Probably no one should have only YKW on their death certificate since the existence of YKW doesn’t kill you, it only causes something that kills you. Only YKW on the death certificate makes it seem like the doctor who filled it out knows they had a positive test but not how they actually died for some reason.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
36,436
SF has a new program where kids go to a learning center and get help with their remote learning. Then they can go outside and play. It's for parents who have to work. And kids who need in-person help. And kids who don't have internet or are homeless.

This is good IMO.
 

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