What does re-opening look like?

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,808
I'm also uncomfortable with totally traceable statement. Especially when he lists no odd jobs to pay for your mortgage.
Venmo and Paypal may be traceable but there is no way to prove the money someone sends to you via those apps was income. That is the whole point of being paid under the table - to avoid taxes by not having to declare it.

Dave Ramsey didn't say that; some random person on Facebook did.
That's a relief. Because I thought he was more sensible to post conspiracy-level crap.

We know from our friends in other countries here that many places in the world are pretty much cash-less -- as cash-less as we'll ever be -- and none of the horror show predictions in that meme have come true.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,726
Dave Ramsey didn't say that; some random person on Facebook did.
That's what I thought but couldnt find the snopes article.

But now she is spewing Evangelicals propaganda and telling me to be right with God as the end of days are coming. She used to go to my church, got ticked off that we wouldn't open and started going to City Lights church. She has always been an anti vaxxer and guns right person. I'm kind of scared of her now.
 

kwanfan1818

I <3 Kozuka
Messages
32,880
I remember when physical Euros started to be printed and minted, and each Eurozone country had to mint 1-cent and 2-cent pieces to be compliant. it felt like a minute after currency was issued that I took the ferry from Tallinn to Helsinki, and newstands were already selling the Finnish 1-cent and 2-cent Finnish design pieces as souvenirs. All the pricing I saw ended in 0's or 5's.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,726
A pastor I know who has an appointment to a church in Des Moines Iowa had posted last week, they intended to start in person worship next week. Then today posted that they will be in red phase - no in person worship, church meetings or small groups until August 30th. If I read his post correctly the county cases went up to 100 new cases versus the 28 the week before. :eek:
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,808
Since the discussion of re-opening schools seems to be taking over all the threads, I created one just for that discussion.

 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,313
Since the discussion of re-opening schools seems to be taking over all the threads, I created one just for that discussion.


I've often thought there should be a separate forum on FSU for teachers :)
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,547
I think of Ramsey as a "cash only" kind of guy so I'm wondering what he said that could be interpreted as "only use credit cards!" :D
He also approves of debit cards, so that would be a possibility for his followers.
Dave Ramsey didn't say that; some random person on Facebook did.
Oh, that whole long quote was not by him? Good thing, because I was surprised that he seemed to think having to declare your income and pay taxes was a drawback of a cashless society. :rolleyes: Or maybe not. He says some extreme things from time to time and periodically rants about not wanting to pay taxes to the government, though he also says he pays. I quit listening to him when I heard him say that he has a concealed carry permit and he is “always armed.” :rolleyes: I thought, really? You’re a multimillionaire and you run in circles that require you to be armed 100% of the time? :rolleyes:
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,808
I read enough of his stuff to get an overview: Cash is good. Credit is bad. Don't buy things you can't afford.

That seemed pretty reasonable to me and I didn't see the point of going into any more details. :D
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,726
I quit listening to him when I heard him say that he has a concealed carry permit and he is “always armed.” :rolleyes: I thought, really? You’re a multimillionaire and you run in circles that require you to be armed 100% of the time? :rolleyes:
I suppose if you are a multimillionaire, believes in cash only or partly, one would need a gun? :p
I'm anti gun by the way tongue in cheek
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,444
Dave Ramsey didn't say that; some random person on Facebook did.

And it's really going around. My relationship with a very close friend is now pretty much firebombed because of their acting like the BB is one big "inconvenience" designed to ruin their life and the ridiculous conspiracy theories like this that they're starting to post. I use to think this friend was a reasonably sensible human being, but courtesy of the politics of their significant other and their general princey/princessy attitude toward BB in general, it's like I don't know them anymore.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
16,726
And it's really going around. My relationship with a very close friend is now pretty much firebombed because of their acting like the BB is one big "inconvenience" designed to ruin their life and the ridiculous conspiracy theories like this that they're starting to post. I use to think this friend was a reasonably sensible human being, but courtesy of the politics of their significant other and their general princey/princessy attitude toward BB in general, it's like I don't know them anymore.
I have used the 30 days dont show posts by this person Facebook timeout. But that may not be enough
 

sk8pics

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,547
I read enough of his stuff to get an overview: Cash is good. Credit is bad. Don't buy things you can't afford.

That seemed pretty reasonable to me and I didn't see the point of going into any more details. :D
Oh, yes, I agree a lot of the financial advice he gives makes sense. I listened to him for maybe a year or so when I was commuting. But things like saying he is always carrying a weapon and periodic rants on political topics made me stop. I have no debt anyway, LOL.
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
826

I feel sad for Modoc County, which doesn't have a single positive case, having to shut down indoor dining, etc., just because much of the rest of the state is doing so poorly. My county is not on any of the state's watch lists, but we will have to close down indoor dining, all bars, and the other affected businesses even though our current statistics don't warrant it. I wish Newsom would go back to making his state mandates apply to specific counties that are having problems and not apply them to all counties. He laid out specific testing criteria that had to be met to keep places open, but then still closes things down even if the criteria have been met. It feels unfair to the counties that are doing their best and have been succeeding.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,808
I think the issue is that, if something is open up somewhere but not somewhere else, the people who live somewhere else go to somewhere and bring their germs with them.

Generally, I think we should do nothing indoors for the foreseeable future and figure out who that impacts economically and give them aide so they can get through it until the entire country is in a better position. Either that or have border crossings on all highways into and out of each state, which is :yikes:
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
826
I think the issue is that, if something is open up somewhere but not somewhere else, the people who live somewhere else go to somewhere and bring their germs with them.

Sure, but no one is going to drive hundreds of miles to have dinner at a mom-and-pop diner in downtown Alturas. I can possibly see it for adjoining urban area counties where folks will simply drive a few miles away - perfect example was when one southern California county closed their beaches, but the one next door did not. But it still seems like a slap in the face to the counties that have complied with all the governor's criteria to reopen and stay reopened. Just from hazy recall, so I don't account for veracity, but I think the testing rate threshold for positive cases is 8% (you have to stay under 8%) and our county is something like 1.6%.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
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23,004
Sure, but no one is going to drive hundreds of miles to have dinner at a mom-and-pop diner in downtown Alturas. I can possibly see it for adjoining urban area counties where folks will simply drive a few miles away - perfect example was when one southern California county closed their beaches, but the one next door did not. But it still seems like a slap in the face to the counties that have complied with all the governor's criteria to reopen and stay reopened. Just from hazy recall, so I don't account for veracity, but I think the testing rate threshold for positive cases is 8% (you have to stay under 8%) and our county is something like 1.6%.

And nowhere in your county neighbors other counties? Is it an island of some kind?
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
28,809
You guys, the coin shortage is the first step to us becoming a cashless society, which is what the new world order wants, as using only cards will help them track you better.

For reasons.

Apparently.

Why is everything a conspiracy theory?

Bill Gates took all the coins so that everyone would have to use credit cards to pay for the microchip vaccine shots. Credit card payments = more data to track everyone with. TRVTH
 

SkateSand

Cat Servant
Messages
826
And nowhere in your county neighbors other counties? Is it an island of some kind?

All the counties that neighbor my county are meeting the criteria for staying open. You'd have to travel about 200 miles south to reach a county that probably isn't meeting the criteria.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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37,808
But it gets very confusing with everyone doing something different.

I think we're going to open up and close down over and over from now until there is a really good treatment or a vaccine so we might as well get used to it.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,159
This is my feeling about almost everything. Going anywhere is a hassle, so I go only places where the hassle is worth my while. And there aren't many places like that.

So a friend of mine came to visit me in Italy and bought tickets to a performance at La Fenice as a surprise thank-you gift. :lol:

I guess I'm behind the times, but I had no idea theatres and orchestras could even open. I'll report back on Friday as to what it was like... From the guidelines, I see temperature checks, no cloakroom, no bar / service, no interval, social distancing between groups, and special requirements when leaving the theatre.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,159
One of the other owners of the salon actually got YKW on a skiing trip at the infamous Ischgl resort and is now part of the class action lawsuit against the resort authorities.

I thought only Americans did this stuff.... Hindsight is 20-20, but was the resort grossly negligent? Did it knowingly expose people to *********? This kind of a lawsuit sets a dangerous precedent.

However, as the only country in the EU not outright banning US and other citizens from travelling here, there is concern that Americans in particular coming here are not observing the 14 day quarantine.

Croatia isn't banning Americans either.

I've heard anecdotal evidence that Greece is turning a blind eye, too. Two American friends and their American child are now posting photos from empty Santorini. I have no idea how they got there, or if one has a second passport I didn't know about?

And the UK, while no longer in the EU, is taking the same approach as Ireland.
 

allezfred

#EpidemiologistsNotEconomists
Staff member
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56,883
I thought only Americans did this stuff.... Hindsight is 20-20, but was the resort grossly negligent? Did it knowingly expose people to *********? This kind of a lawsuit sets a dangerous precedent.

Yes, the resort was.


And the UK, while no longer in the EU, is taking the same approach as Ireland.

Unfortunately we are probably taking the same approach because of the Common Travel Area.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,313
But it gets very confusing with everyone doing something different.

I think we're going to open up and close down over and over from now until there is a really good treatment or a vaccine so we might as well get used to it.

I've said this all along - the lack of coordination between jurisdictions is difficult. Here in Ontario, certain areas just moved to Stage 3, but other areas are still Stage 2. Already I'm hearing from people I know in Stage 2 areas that they are heading to this event or that beach or that cottage in a Stage 3 area.

"But we're following government guidelines for gatherings!" Are you really, if half the people there are from higher risk areas, not to mention all the opportunities for infection when traveling from one area to another? Gas stations, ATMs, restaurants, public bathrooms, hotels, convenience stores, ugh it's impossible to comprehend at times.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,159

If I'm understanding the facts correctly, the first confirmed case in the area was on the 7th of March, and the resort shut on the 13th of March. The guests who are suing arrived on or after the 8th of March. I think it's a bit much to expect resort owners to be public health experts and shut down operations based on one confirmed case of a new illness the day before?

People here were screaming at me that I was insane to go to Calabria - 1000+ km from ********* - on 27 February (actually, even before because I left on 27 Feb). Anyone who travelled and had even the slightest sense of geography should have been well aware that they were very close to areas with *********-19 outbreaks. Are we really going to say people who flew to within an hour of Italy on or after the 8th of March did not significantly contribute to any negligence here?

Italy announced national lockdown on the 9th of March - so this resort was open all of four days after that, and six days after the first case. That's not an unreasonable amount of time, IMO.

If the Americans quoted in the article who arrived on the 8th of March are successful in recovering any money, then I hope everyone on the same plane they took home sues them, for flying home while ill and exposing a plane full of people to whatever they picked up in Austria.

If there was a cover-up, or if the facts are materially different, then I'm happy to change my opinion. But for now this seems frivolous to me.

Unfortunately we are probably taking the same approach because of the Common Travel Area.

Well, Ireland is forcing people from Great Britain to quarantine, no? :lol:

The UK hasn't even taken a uniform approach itself, with Scotland still requiring quarantine for many nationals that England does not. As usual, the rules seem complicated and confusing.
 

allezfred

#EpidemiologistsNotEconomists
Staff member
Messages
56,883
Well, Ireland is forcing people from Great Britain to quarantine, no? :lol:

We are not forcing anyone which is the issue. We are requesting all arrivals to self-quarantine for 14 days. There is a mandatory location form to fill out and follow up phone calls, but that’s it.
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,038
Sigh. Thank God most in Johnson County are moderates to liberals but there are a few idiots:




Arlo Kinsey was working behind the carryout counter at RJ’s Bob-Be-Que Shack in Mission last week when a middle-aged man dressed in a red Make America Great Again hat — and no mask — walked through the door.

“I asked him if he could wear a mask, since it’s what Gov. Kelly told us to do,” said Kinsey, 18, who was working shifts at the barbecue joint this summer before heading off to college. He had dealt with a handful of customers who refused to wear masks inside the restaurant despite the statewide mandate — but none like this, he said.

The man said he had an exemption to the mask order: He then lifted up his shirt, revealing a gun in a holster on his hip.
 

million$momma

Well-Known Member
Messages
445
I've said this all along - the lack of coordination between jurisdictions is difficult. Here in Ontario, certain areas just moved to Stage 3, but other areas are still Stage 2. Already I'm hearing from people I know in Stage 2 areas that they are heading to this event or that beach or that cottage in a Stage 3 area.

"But we're following government guidelines for gatherings!" Are you really, if half the people there are from higher risk areas, not to mention all the opportunities for infection when traveling from one area to another? Gas stations, ATMs, restaurants, public bathrooms, hotels, convenience stores, ugh it's impossible to comprehend at times.
Even in Stage 3 areas, you are only allowed 10 people in your 'bubble'. Groups can gather up to 50 but there has to be social distancing in place.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,279
If I'm understanding the facts correctly, the first confirmed case in the area was on the 7th of March, and the resort shut on the 13th of March. The guests who are suing arrived on or after the 8th of March. I think it's a bit much to expect resort owners to be public health experts and shut down operations based on one confirmed case of a new illness the day before?

That's not at all the whole story to what happened, there's a lot of information on Ischgl authorities and the vacation industry there trying to slow down the closing of the ski season even after they were warned and the first case was confirmed and that's why there's an investigation by Austrian authorities and also several lawsuits (there's also a mass lawsuit by German tourists and I'd guess by the other nations that were the most affected).

The country of Iceland (and a tourist from the Netherlands) warned the authorities in Ischgl several times via email and were greatly ignored. A lot of tourists from Iceland came back with the ***** from Ischgl on February 29th, so Iceland put Ischgl to be a risk area on March 5th and tried Ischgl to get actions.

The reason why the "first confirmed case" was only on March 7th, is that Ischgl flatly didn't test, even though there's tons of eye witness reports about tons of people being sick there for weeks already (some bar worker from Eastern Europe was quoted as "the whole place was coughing").

The first confirmed case in the area was somewhen at the beginning of February, which was found out in hindsight.

All the email conversations and some sms conversations have been published and the timeline thoroughly investigated, there's also an internal investigation within Austria, it's not as if this is just some sort of unfounded allegations. Of course it will be the courts who will have to decide about the lawsuits. But it's not as if there are just some completely unfounded allegations from a couple of disgruntled tourists.
 
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